Erik

I went looking for some data on the Lambo and found the following results gotten at Nardo des 2001, the famous test where the SL55 go against several other 300 kph cars.

In that test they managed a 11,7 sec in the 0-125 mph run and a 3,4 in the short 0-62 mph ( not 0-60 as you normaly use)

You source claim a mid 11 to 127 mph....for the Vette.

If we compare this results with the results from your US mags we see that the Lambo Murc is very close to the new Vette, but still a bit slower in the long sprint and a fraction faster in the short sprint, if you go ***** to the wall launch with the 4WD Lambo......

When the new Vette arrives here in Europe it will be exiting to see what it can do.....

Improviz

It was also about this close (a difference of only a few tenths) in the Motor Trend tests, but not in the Car & Driver, so it's probably quite dependent upon driver as usual. But as you point out, this is thanks to the AWD launch. From a roll, with 13% better power/weight ratio, 'vette should pull easily. Similar contest would be Audi S4 versus M3. From stop, ***** to wall AWD launch in Audi allows close contest up to 100 mph or so, but from roll M3 pulls away pretty easily due to several hundred pounds lower weight and similar horsepower.

But in bling bling and sexy factors, Lambo is far and away the winner!

Lexani

I KNEW it.

Clearly the new Z06 cannot even match the SRT-10s performance, much less the Murcielago.

Heck, by those numbers, it will not even beat a stock E55 from drag slips times.

But maybe it was a fluke. Yes, a published fluke. Clearly the drivers fell asleep at the wheel.


It's quite obvious the Z06 surrounded itself with hype and did not live up to it.

Improviz? Any say?

Improviz

Lexani, lexani...you seem to have this rather nasty habit of assuming that because one, and only one, data point supports that which you want to believe, then all other data points are suddenly rendered false.

Unfortunately for you, as I already pointed out to you in my previous posts: Motor Trend and Car & Driver have already tested the Z06, and both got substantially faster times than this--AND both got better times than they got in the Lambos they tested, and as it turns out, also better than the Vipers they tested, as we shall see.

Shall I recap the data for you, since your memory seems to be a bit fuzzy?

Car & Driver tests the Murcielago: 12.6 @ 116

Car & Driver tests the new Viper coupe: 12.5 @ 117 mph:

Car & Driver tests the new Z06: 11.7 @ 127 mph:

Oh, my word...could this be (gasp) a "published fluke"? Were the Car & Driver drivers asleep when they tested that Lambo? Were they asleep when they tested that Viper?

Motor Trend tests the Murcielago: 11.72 @ 125.72

Motor Trend tests the Viper: 11.77 @ 123.63

Motor Trend tests the new Z06 11.5 @ 127.1 mph:

Another published fluke? Were the Motor Trend drivers asleep when they tested that Lambo? Were they asleep when they tested that Viper?

Don't you love it when your own lame arguments are used against you? That's four flukes to your one.

One data point doth not a victory make. The new Z06 has 100 horsepower more than the previous Z06, and still weighs the same. A car does not gain 100 horsepower, no weight, and trap the same (116 mph) as its predecessor. The old Z06's were trapping at 116 with 405 horsepower; click here for proof:

Dang, another published fluke? Lot of those things running around....like this one:

Or this one: Autoweek reports that the new Z06 lapped the Nurburgring circuit in Germany in 7 minutes. 42.99 seconds. The Murciélago's time: 7 minutes, 50 seconds. They also report that the only production car to have a faster recorded lap time than the new Z06 is Porsche's $440,000, 604-hp Carrera GT.

Hmm....flukes coming out of the woodwork tonight.

E55 RUSS

A friend of mine had reg Vanquish and said Sl55 would run away from Aston no problems...

He just got Vanquish S, I think it like 30-50Hp more powerful then regular Vanquish...better brake and suspension, sounds even better...

European mags say the acceleration changed only by 0.1 to 62...in other world not much faster...then reg Vanquish in straingt line...

Therefore I think, there is no BS, that any 55 Kompressors engines, exepct may for S55 (heavy) will beat Vanquish S...ecpecially mid range...

Astons are Stylish but Not that Fast...

Erik

I agree it is dangerous to draw conclusion on only 1 result, that clearly differ from several other results.

That spesific car on that day and track was maybe not faster, but based on results from several other mags you refered to it looks like this spesific car did not perform as well as the average Vette should be able to do.

But regarding you reference to the 7 min 42 lap I am not 100% convinced that this is a totaly stock car.

This tresult has been disussed several times and on several Forums and it seem that the car was somewhat modified to go fast on the track ( no engine tuning, only setup and other minors)

It look like the monster Vette is going to be sold in Europe this time, so I wait until it is run on the ring by "Sport Auto" to get a time that we can compare and be sure that the car is 100% stock. At lest they the same driver and test procedures to get the best possible comparable results.

My personaly knowledge and experience with Vettes and Vipers are 0, but I still find it strange that the Vette should be able to lap the ring 30 sec faster than the Viper.

Sub 8 min should be in reach for the Vette, but 7 min 42 looks to me a bit to fast to be true.

Anything close to 7min, 45sec would be flat out amazing. We will see soon enough I guess..

Lexani

You're points already been established Improviz, I just wanted you're thoughts on the article. I never stated all others false.

Lexani

Only production car? So much for the Enzo, and the Koenigsegg, and the Pagani.

Hmm... you must be right, flukes coming ouf of the woodwork tonight.

Improviz

Hmm, I haven't seen any published 'ring times for the Enzo or the Koenigsegg, but the Pagani Zonda did it in 7'44", which is still a few seconds slower than the Z06. Have you seen them for the former two cars? Afaik, AMS has not run a supertest on the Enzo...

Here is the time for the Pagani Zonda
http://www.track-challenge.com/singl...b_e.asp?Car=50

However, as Erik points out, it would be better to wait until Horst Von Saurma of Auto Motor und Sport does his thing, as most of these other numbers we hear being brandied about were done by him, so it's a bit better yardstick when the driver is the same.

The point is, though, that this thing, at $65,000, will run with--and beat--many of the worlds' best and most exotic sports cars costing two, three, four and more times its price.

And that, in my book, means that it is worthy of some r-e-s-p-e-c-t, as Aretha put it. It is certainly not a "piece of trash".

Improviz

So what, exactly, did you mean when you wrote the following??



How could any of the above statements be true unless the Car & Driver and Motor Trend tests were bogus?

Erik

Neither the Enzo or the Koenigsegg or the Bugatti Veyron for that matter has been tested on the Ring by Sport Auto, AMS ( Auto Motor & Sport) is a different mag in the same family.

Ferrari does for some reasson not let German mags test their top models. F50 and the present Enzo on the ring. The risk of not beeing the fastest is maybe to scary for them. (I remember several years ago when Sport Auto tryed to get a Testarossa to compare with the ALPINA B10 Bi Turbo, Ferrari refused to lend out a car, so they had to use one of a private owner.)

I have seen test of the Enzo in straight line and some track comparisons, but not in the Ring or on Hockenheim. The F50 I did not see one single test of, only reviews and driving reports.

The Bugatti has now been tested, but not in the "Supertest" or in any other kind of track test, except a straigh line topspeed run and acceleration test.
Same thing with the Koenigsegg.

The Pagani on the other hand has been tested as you have seen and did an very impressive 7 min 44 lap. That is very fast considering the car has not been developed with extensive testing on the ring as many of the other supercars has.

BTW: DO not forgett that the ring time of the CGT was done in semi wet ( wetspots) conditions and with some of the safety devices engaged ( ESP, DSC traction controll) On dry suface Von Saurma and Walter Rohl has run sub 7 min 30 sec... and that is FAST

AMG_55

its proven that the vanquishes are really really slow (for their output)... idunno what ur talkin about or actually u dont know what ur talkin about

AMG_55

these aren't flukes
i read that most z06's actually put out 550hp
and the lambo is way too heavy for 1/4 mile runs and hard to launch... its faster (comparatively) at higher speeds
the vette is still faster though