Improviz

The term "Magazine racing" is nothing more than a rather clever use of wordplay in order to reframe an argument and discredit one's opponent, along the lines as "death tax", "cut and run", etc....the fact is that in an effort to establish the relative acceleration times of two vehicles, scientifically conducted timed acceleration runs by reputable magazines are certainly a valid source of information. If you have any proof to offer that these magazines did not accurately measure the acceleration capabilities of either of the vehicles they tested, I'd love to see it.

Further, you yourself have cited magazine data several times over the course of this thread:

The 17.5 second figure is straight out of Car & Driver, and you mention tests for SL65.

More magazine citations.

More magazine citations. Btw, the Z06 in this test ran the 400m (1/4 mile) in 11.8 @ 124 mph

I don't believe it because the data doesn't show it; the car mags use the same drivers to test these cars, and what that data shows is basically a tie: in some cases, same mag same driver, the SL65 was the faster car, while in others, the Z06 was. The two cars' averages in the US mags are within 1 mph of another, their 0-xxx acceleration times are pretty much dead even, and that's not an opinion; it is what the data show. The average 1/4 mile and trap for all Z06 tests in C&D, MT, and R&T: 11.93 @ 122.14 mph. The average for the SL65: 11.95 @ 122.9.

If that's not a statistical tie, what is?? When two cars are this close, reaction times, launch, shift points, etc. will be the deciding factor in any given encounter; in some cases, the Z should win, while in others, the SL should win, simple as that.

Oh, and you've been arguing over the Internet to make a point ever since you started this thread, btw.

They are great cars, as is the Z06. Again, my only beef here is your continued claim that the Z06 would wax the SL65, which the data simply doesn't support.

Zlicious

Wow, you must have a lot of time on your hands..

Where did I say "The Z06 would wax the SL" Please find me that quote.

I said with equal driver, the Z06 will win everytime, and, with average drivers from a dig, the SL65 would win everytime. That is exactly what I said. And this is a fact. Ask ANYONE that has both and is not MB biased, and they will tell you the same.

merc655

All in all, I think we have all read that they basically are as close as you can get in a straight line. Thank you very much.

Regardless, the Z06 is an amazing car for the price and the SL65 is a force to be reckoned with

Considering one car is a 6spd and the other a 5spd auto, you would think instead of gathering as much information as possible online and compiling into the last two pages, someone would have said: Hey! Obviously one is easier to launch than the other, it's an AUTO!

But then again, we can't always live in a perfect world. But we do live in one where we have to argue which is faster: a 600hp SL or a 500hp Vette... I might be crazy, but ladies and gentlemen... this is as good as it gets.

So can we stop with the
"Im faster"
"No I am"
"No I am"
"No I am"
because I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one tired of reading the same published times over and over, and I even own a Z06!

ddtham

Improviz,

You ought to be a demographer with all of those numbers/ facts supported arguments/everything, man. That was just so amazing. Kudos to you!

Improviz

I wasn't quoting you, I was paraphrasing, and what you said before is basically what you're saying now: that with "equal drivers" the Z06 will win every time. In order for this to happen, the Z would have to be clearly dominant in all tests with the same drivers.

But the car mags use "equal drivers'; they use the same test drivers, yes? So if what you're saying is true, then why is it that Road & Track tested three Z06s, one SL65, and yet none of the Z06s even equalled, let alone beat, the SL65, in trap speed *or* quarter mile time?

This alone shows that your claim is prima facie false. The data does not support your argument, equal drivers or not. The data show that in some cases the Z has been tested faster, in others the SL was faster, and in others they tie. Further, the average of their times and trap speeds are not 2-3 mph apart with advantage to the Z06 as you claimed; they are 0.76 mph apart, with advantage to the SL65. If as you maintain with equal drivers the Z06 would always win were true, then every mag should have tested every Z06 faster than every SL65, and this is not the case.

Nor is your earlier statement that Z06s are all trapping between 125-127 accurate, as the data show. Even the magazine article you provided had it trapping at 124, and others have it as low as 116.6.

Further, your statement that if I "ask ANYONE that has both" they will tell me the same....but Ben Treynor, who *does* own both, already said in this thread that in a straight line, the two are equal:

He didn't say that the Z is faster; he said they're equal, which is what the stats also show. Your bias is showing.

Improviz

Thanks! I do love the Z06, but I also love the SL65, and trust me: if the data showed what he's saying, I wouldn't even have entered into this, and in other threads where the data showed the Z06 to be faster, I did enter in in the Z06's defense!

Both are amazing cars, and are statistically tied straightline. On a track with curves, the Z would destroy the SL. I have no problem admitting this, but we're talking purely straightline acceleration here, and in this contest it is a tie.

Zlicious

Because the SL65 is that much easier to drive. Just because MT, or C&D, or R&T tested the Z06, doesn't mean it was tested by a good driver. This is evident, clear, and obvious from some of the times they will able to pull of in the new Z06. 12.2? 12.1? 12.4? Please, I pulled a 12.3 in my STOCK 337 rwhp 01 Z06.

Yes, and he has also stated something different when I had asked him the same question on the Z06 forums some time ago.

"And stock-for-stock, I'd give a Z06 the barest edge over the SL65 in a straight line under ideal conditions. The SL is much easier to launch and has better traction control, however, so beware - I'd wager 9 times out of 10 in a heads up street race the SL would win." - Treynor

Exactly like I stated. The SL is that much easier to drive and that much easier to launch. Without a good driver in the Z06, the SL will win 100% of the time from a dig.

Your justification as to why the SL and the Z06 are tied is skewed and WAY off base. You can keep on taking some of the published magazine times of the new Z06, which are about as good as my 337 rwhp 2001 Z06, and taking the average all you want. You and I BOTH know that some times you are taking into consideration for the new Z06 can be done in a stock C5 Z06.

I came here to state my story, and once speed came into question, I stated that the C6 Z06 with a good driver is faster than an SL65. I stated facts only. I NEVER said "The Z06 would wax an SL65" or anything remotely close to that.

I am done arguing with you in regards to this subject. Once an SL65 traps at 127.xx stock (btw, you forgot to mention MT when you were on a magazine listing rage. They ran the Z06 to an 11.5@127.01) once it can run to 150 in 17.5 secs stock, and once you actually race one in an SL65 (Just like I did in the Z06, and won) then you can come to me and tell me that it is a tie in a straight line race. Until then, you can keep on averaging C6 Z06 times that were pulled off in a stock C5 Z06. Whatever makes you feel better, I guess.

bltserv

AMG vs Vette

The problem with the Vette. Driver needs to know how to drive.
Most DO NOT. One little screw up shifting and I kill them in my
SL55. Only seen one keep up with me since I got my car in June.
Like 1 in 6. The only Z06 I have gone up on was someone who
must have just bought it and was obviously learning the stick
for the first week or so. Sure sounded nice !

Not bad for a Upside Down Jacuzzi on wheels thats all motor.

Somehow I just feel so much safer in my Benz than in a Jacuzzi
at 100 + MPH.

Ok Vette owners. Flame On !!

merc655

^ Is that a serious post?

You and about half of the world have said the same thing over and over and over... everyone knows Mercedes Benz is a "nicer" car and "safer" feeling than a Vette. You have actually said the same exact thing that every other general assumption car enthusiast on most forums in the world are saying when it comes to the Z06 v SL65

regor60

You obviously are unfamiliar with the First Rule of Holes

Improviz

No, it is not clear, evident, nor obvious, Zlicious, because if it were clear, evident, or obvious, they would not be able, in OTHER fast cars, to pull respectable times--and yet they do. For example: R&T got the slowest times in all three of the Z06s they tested. Bad driver who cannot handle fast cars? But the thing is this: those lousy drivers at R&T somehow managed to get the faster time in an Enzo, which is faster than a Z06...huh.

One lame debate technique after another.

And I don't disagree; my point is that even with a good driver, it will win in many, and lose in many. You keep acting as though because one guy supposedly ran an 11.2 @ 127 stock, why, any Z06 could hit this time, blissfully unaware of production tolerances, manufacturing differences, differences in weight, traction, horsepower, driveline friction between cars off of a manufacturing line as you are, instead choosing to believe that each and every Z06 produced by Chevrolet is manufactured with a 0.00000001% tolerance, producing the exact same horsepower, having the exact same driveline losses, etc. etc. etc.

Ignorant. Outliers do not constitute the standard. For you to claim that one guy's 11.2 @ 127 is The Gold Standard is equally as ridiculous as claiming that Road & Track's 12.3 @ 116.6 is The Gold Standard. Both are sample points, and you have absolutely no proof nor evidence to sustain your charge that the Road & Track driver was a bad one. The obvious answer is, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, but the middle is too close for comfort to the SL65 for you, so you simply dismiss anything below a 125 mph trap speed, even though that's where the bulk of them are.

The thing is, though, this argument cuts both ways. Citing Ben's 11.7 @ 126, I could just as easily claim that the SL65's slower times and traps in Car & Driver and Road & Track are ironclad proof that their drivers are **** poor, and that each and every SL65 can trap at 126 mph "with a good driver" as you put it...in which case the fastest Z06 you can cite pulled a whopping 1.5 mph faster in trap.

But I can go you one further: since we no longer need evidence to argue, I could say "well, Ben botched it, and a good driver could run 11.2 @ 129 all day long". Like you, I don't have any proof of this, but I'm on equally sound footing to argue it, i.e. I don't have any evidence to support it, and I'm dismissing all evidence to the contrary.

Magazine racer!! Yet another false claim out of you. Motor Trend was among the car tests I listed, and it was included in my average:
And then, what does the guy who called me a "magazine racer" do? Why, he quotes another magazine, of course:

Magazine racer!!!! Here you go, quoting Car & Driver again, which just moments ago you claimed had "bad drivers". You just can't keep your stories straight, now can you?

Blah, blah, blah...whenever you can run a 4 second 40, you can tell me who owns the world record...whenever you can play linbacker in the NFL, you can tell me who won the Super Bowl...another ridiculous non sequitur, and nothing approaching a serious argument.

Until then, you can keep citing magazine articles on one hand and dismissing them on the other, depending upon whether or not it supports or undercuts your argument.

SLK55R

someone got Improviz involved ... this thread is going to last at least 2 more pages now.

merc655

bltserv

It has nothing to do with feeling. It has to do with life and death
at high speed. The odds are against you in a fiberglass car
that GM has done all they can to save $$$$$$$$ and weight.

Have had 2 friends killed in those fibreglass coffins in two seperate accidents over the past 5 years. Both got killed in side impacts.
One involed too much speed and spun into a utility pole. Killed instantly.
Left 3 kids and a wife behind.

Other involved someone blowing a red light.
He lived for a week before they pulled the plug.

Just too much power and not enough emphasis on safety
and solid construction. Have you ever seen what happens to
a Vette when it gets in a serious wreck. It aint pretty.
And severe side impacts are just a death sentence in these cars.

Drive very carefully when racing your Vette !!!!

absent

Still,Z06 is one hell of a car and passes all federal required crash tests (very severe on their own).
If I could not have the SL65 ,a Z would definitely be in my garage.

bltserv

I am here from the government to tell you that you are safe.
Thats one of the great lies ! Here is the severe test you mention.

Safety is always of paramount importance,” said Fehan. “Shortly after we built the first car, we went to GM’s Milford Proving Grounds and did a barrier crash test to full Federal standards - we ran a brand-new car into a solid wall at 29 mph. The car came through remarkably well.

Carl Lassiter

merc655

Well, sorry to hear about your losses, but you also hold unique exceptions to this instance.

absent

What do you really expect from a car?
Get yourself a tank ,then you can bust the wall.

FORZFED

all this talk about z06's..just had to post mine..









recent kills

lamborghini gallardo (wasnt even a race)

gsx-r750 (1st gear he had me by 4 cars..2nd gear had me by a car..3rd gear he was in my rear view...by 4th i was doing 160ish and he was about 10 cars back.long story short ending

evo mr (haha are you serious)

carrera c4 type s (overrated and slow)

and my pops tried to take me in his 360 spyder (kill)

AMG_55

you got a beautiful z06

Yellow R1

That is a NICE Z. The only reason I don't buy a yellow one is I already have a modded RX-7. If/when my motor ever goes, I'm dropping in that 427 with H/C, intake, exhaust - just like your set up. You should be ~550 rwhp & CA smog legal - such a deal! Again.....nice Z man.

-Matt

FORZFED

haha ya...it didnt quite pass the legal way..got it taken care of though

Zlicious

Well heck, while we are at it, here is mine..

transferred

If it's wet you may want to re-evaluate these two statements. Also, on a tight and twisty road the wide bodied Carrera's absoulutely fly.

BTW, apart from the small vent in the bonnet what's the easiest way for me tell the new Z06? I want to be sure that when I'm running C6's that I don't accidentallly come across the 7litre monster.