Dead even race w210 E55 vs 335i
11-29-2007, 01:34 PM
#26
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To it's respect, the 335i is quite a performer. My good friend has one, and it packs a nice punch to it. Off the line, it feels quicker than my car, and the acceleration from a 20 mph roll felt pretty comparable to 100. I'm looking forward to having a few runs with him. Our assumptions are that he'll have me from 0-60, and that I'll walk him from a roll 40-120. Now, if we both can find some time to test this out! 
11-29-2007, 01:41 PM
#27
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Well, that's what confuses me: your car traps at 100, and a car that traps between 104-106 should reel you in, not the other way around. My car will put about 5 lengths on a car trapping 100 (verified this many times 
), so I'd figure that to do this you'd need to be trapping at 107 or so. 
Turbos can lose some power up high if their cooling system isn't up to snuff, but I haven't heard any such complaints about the Bimmer setup; even then he should have gotten out front down low.
If he screwed up and stuck low-octane fuel (or if the station at which he got it did, or just ripped him off), he'd take a pretty bad hit; or if it was in summer and relatively hot/humid, he'd also take a more severe hit (I once got beaten by an S430 on the highway in an Audi S4 (turbo), but it was about 105 outside and their cooling system wasn't the best on those things).
Or else he may have started in the wrong gear, you never know....sometimes folks w/manuals will not know the ranges of their gears and start up one gear up from where they should. But the odd thing is that you said you did this w/two of them, although one clearly was quicker than the other. With the close race, considering your car is within about a half second of his, driver error could easily add up to 1/2 second (despite what people think, most drivers aren't good/fast enough to hit mid 13s without a TON of practice, and very good reflexes to boot). The one that surprises me is the one where you got out in front....but who knows, stuff happens...I just wouldn't be banking on this happening every time if I were you!!
), so I'd figure that to do this you'd need to be trapping at 107 or so. Turbos can lose some power up high if their cooling system isn't up to snuff, but I haven't heard any such complaints about the Bimmer setup; even then he should have gotten out front down low.
If he screwed up and stuck low-octane fuel (or if the station at which he got it did, or just ripped him off), he'd take a pretty bad hit; or if it was in summer and relatively hot/humid, he'd also take a more severe hit (I once got beaten by an S430 on the highway in an Audi S4 (turbo), but it was about 105 outside and their cooling system wasn't the best on those things).
Or else he may have started in the wrong gear, you never know....sometimes folks w/manuals will not know the ranges of their gears and start up one gear up from where they should. But the odd thing is that you said you did this w/two of them, although one clearly was quicker than the other. With the close race, considering your car is within about a half second of his, driver error could easily add up to 1/2 second (despite what people think, most drivers aren't good/fast enough to hit mid 13s without a TON of practice, and very good reflexes to boot). The one that surprises me is the one where you got out in front....but who knows, stuff happens...I just wouldn't be banking on this happening every time if I were you!!
The other guy started out ahead of me and he saw me and knew it was on. We both floored it, but the road was twisty and there were other cars so maybe he let off at times. Also, I have no clue if the cars were manual. And if they were auto, who knows if they left it in auto or not.
Even so, with the first race if he left it in auto and let the car shift, I would think up top he would still start to walk me. This didn't happen at all, it was the opposite. The driver looked like a complete douche, he didn't even acknowledge me after the race so I think he was driving an auto
I'm not saying my car is faster than a 335i. Going by all logical stats, dynos, and track results, the 335i should decisively beat me. I'm just trying to add to the discussion and show how its very possible for a car like an E500 to run with a 335i on the streets.
11-29-2007, 02:37 PM
#28
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CLS55 AMG
I was referring to your comment saying you've pulled 5 lengths on a car trapping 100 mph; by the 1 trap mph 1 car length rule, that would mean your car would be trapping at 105 to pull that much on a 100 trap-mph car. Since the CLK55 traps on dragtimes.com range from 107-110, I would assume this "rule" would be a bit inaccurate.
It was an estimate.
Does this clarify?
As to the "rule" as you put it, it too is an approximation and will vary with the comparitive speeds of the cars, but if we calculate using a 13.5 @ 105 vs a 14.0 @100 car:
5 mi/h * 5280 ft/mi * 1 h/3600s = 7.33 ft/s. Assuming that this speed differential is constant for duration of race (it isn't, and will obviously be less, but if you're that curious, dig out a textbook and do the calculus, and this is close), you've got 13.5 s*7.33 ft/s = 98.9999 ft.
Using 16 ft for a "carlength", this comes out to 6.18 carlengths.
Again: the speed difference will NOT be 5 mph for the duration of the race, so this is a longer distance than you would see. Error is probably close to a carlength. So there you are. Roughly one carlength per tenth, one carlength per mph.
11-29-2007, 02:46 PM
#29
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Bro, I was expecting to get my *** handed to me. We lined up, 3 honks, and up to 130 I was ahead.
The other guy started out ahead of me and he saw me and knew it was on. We both floored it, but the road was twisty and there were other cars so maybe he let off at times. Also, I have no clue if the cars were manual. And if they were auto, who knows if they left it in auto or not.
Even so, with the first race if he left it in auto and let the car shift, I would think up top he would still start to walk me. This didn't happen at all, it was the opposite. The driver looked like a complete douche, he didn't even acknowledge me after the race so I think he was driving an auto
I'm not saying my car is faster than a 335i. Going by all logical stats, dynos, and track results, the 335i should decisively beat me. I'm just trying to add to the discussion and show how its very possible for a car like an E500 to run with a 335i on the streets.
The other guy started out ahead of me and he saw me and knew it was on. We both floored it, but the road was twisty and there were other cars so maybe he let off at times. Also, I have no clue if the cars were manual. And if they were auto, who knows if they left it in auto or not.
Even so, with the first race if he left it in auto and let the car shift, I would think up top he would still start to walk me. This didn't happen at all, it was the opposite. The driver looked like a complete douche, he didn't even acknowledge me after the race so I think he was driving an auto
I'm not saying my car is faster than a 335i. Going by all logical stats, dynos, and track results, the 335i should decisively beat me. I'm just trying to add to the discussion and show how its very possible for a car like an E500 to run with a 335i on the streets.
And hell, 1/2 second is within the margin of reaction time. If you're quicker than the other guy, you've got a huge advantage just with that.
I've beaten faster cars thanks to these things and, admittedly, lost to slower ones by doing them myself.
But I think we agree on my main point, given your last paragraph. It's the same with me: I once beat a C5 Z06 up to about 90 or so, but would never argue mine was the faster car!
11-29-2007, 02:59 PM
#30
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As to the "rule" as you put it, it too is an approximation and will vary with the comparitive speeds of the cars, but if we calculate using a 13.5 @ 105 vs a 14.0 @100 car:
5 mi/h * 5280 ft/mi * 1 h/3600s = 7.33 ft/s. Assuming that this speed differential is constant for duration of race (it isn't, and will obviously be less, but if you're that curious, dig out a textbook and do the calculus, and this is close), you've got 13.5 s*7.33 ft/s = 98.9999 ft.
Using 16 ft for a "carlength", this comes out to 6.18 carlengths.
Again: the speed difference will NOT be 5 mph for the duration of the race, so this is a longer distance than you would see. Error is probably close to a carlength. So there you are. Roughly one carlength per tenth, one carlength per mph.
5 mi/h * 5280 ft/mi * 1 h/3600s = 7.33 ft/s. Assuming that this speed differential is constant for duration of race (it isn't, and will obviously be less, but if you're that curious, dig out a textbook and do the calculus, and this is close), you've got 13.5 s*7.33 ft/s = 98.9999 ft.
Using 16 ft for a "carlength", this comes out to 6.18 carlengths.
Again: the speed difference will NOT be 5 mph for the duration of the race, so this is a longer distance than you would see. Error is probably close to a carlength. So there you are. Roughly one carlength per tenth, one carlength per mph.
11-29-2007, 03:12 PM
#31
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CLS55 AMG
Plus, as these were rolling-start runs, a simple 0.2 to 0.3 second difference in reaction time alone (or in vehicle reaction time, etc.) would cost two to three lengths, etc...lot of intangibles we're dealing with here.
That's why imo drag strips are best for this stuff....they remove reaction time, and just tell you which car was driven faster. Still doesn't eliminate driver error, though!!
11-29-2007, 03:44 PM
#32
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Well, again, I was looking in the mirror in these runs, and perspective gets skewed with such a sharp angle (watch my videos vs. the M5s for an example), so the distance may well have been higher; it's difficult to say...fwlw, I do know that when I watched the M5 videos after I ran them, I was a bit surprised as I thought they were a bit closer (not hugely, but the gap was larger than I thought when I was running them).
Plus, as these were rolling-start runs, a simple 0.2 to 0.3 second difference in reaction time alone (or in vehicle reaction time, etc.) would cost two to three lengths, etc...lot of intangibles we're dealing with here.
That's why imo drag strips are best for this stuff....they remove reaction time, and just tell you which car was driven faster. Still doesn't eliminate driver error, though!!
Plus, as these were rolling-start runs, a simple 0.2 to 0.3 second difference in reaction time alone (or in vehicle reaction time, etc.) would cost two to three lengths, etc...lot of intangibles we're dealing with here.
That's why imo drag strips are best for this stuff....they remove reaction time, and just tell you which car was driven faster. Still doesn't eliminate driver error, though!!
