BMW 535d
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
210hp moving 4000lbs, i think that would make the car feel pretty anemic and your paying more money for it. I understand power isn't everything but why would someone want to spend $53k on a car thats slower then a $16k civic other then the badge factor.
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
V8 diesels are fundamentally flawed as they can't hit 30mpg which is a minimum requirement of a diesel in sedan and they also have something which weighs close to a boat anchor ahead of the front axle. Now big capacity diesels have their place for tow vehicles but otherwise a 6cyl is plenty.
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
Better space, luxury and economy etc etc. Also diesel has been priced higher than gas in Europe since the turn of the century. 35mpg vs 25mpg makes an extra 20cents of so more per gallon mean very little.
V8 diesels are fundamentally flawed as they can't hit 30mpg which is a minimum requirement of a diesel in sedan and they also have something which weighs close to a boat anchor ahead of the front axle. Now big capacity diesels have their place for tow vehicles but otherwise a 6cyl is plenty.
V8 diesels are fundamentally flawed as they can't hit 30mpg which is a minimum requirement of a diesel in sedan and they also have something which weighs close to a boat anchor ahead of the front axle. Now big capacity diesels have their place for tow vehicles but otherwise a 6cyl is plenty.
then i guess the turn of the century run must've just ended, becaused depending on which european country you look at, diesel is cheaper then petrol. France, germany and denmark...diesel is cheaper.
http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/eupetrolprices/
I don't understand why your bring in v8's, when the two engines we were speaking about are v6's.
i'm not saying diesels are bad, i'm just saying i don't think they will have wide spead acceptance in the US like in Europe. Most people in the US will not pay higher up front costs in the cost of the vehicle and fuel to make it up later down the line in savings.
e85 has made some progress because of the cheaper initial cost in fuel, even though they lose economy due to the less potential energy of ethanol when compared to gas.
Last edited by TemjinX2; Sep 26, 2008 at 10:03 PM.
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2009 SL63 AMG
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Where are you getting the 210hp from? The new 535d has 270bhp and 413lb-ft torque. Even bone stock, it has more torque than E60 M5 and you can get close to 500lb-ft torque with an ecu tune!
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
A couple things. First off, horsepower has nothing to do with moving weight; torque does. There is over 130 ft-lb's more in the diesel over the petrol variant of MB's V6. With more on demand torque much lower in the power band, the diesel will feel more powerful, not the other way around. As for why people love oil burners? Well, the mountain of torque and hybrid-smashing fuel economy alone are enough to convince me.
Keep in mind gearing multiples the torque you put to the ground. Higher rotationals per min allows for more aggressive gearing. Given that most people don't want to study all thoses factors, horsepower is the generally accepted measure of how quick a car can be. It doesn't matter what you butt dyno saids.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with diesels, other then the fact i don't believe they will be as popular in the US as it is in Europe. For the reason's i stated above.
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
Go back and read the posts above.
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S63 COUPE M157
Forget about bluetec diesel. They sell here normal 320CDI engine that has 224BHP and 500NM while 350 V6 has 272BHP and much less torque.
And just by the way, my stock ML320CDI is faster than a stock ML350. What is the point of paying for same or less performance with much bigger consumption?
And just by the way, my stock ML320CDI is faster than a stock ML350. What is the point of paying for same or less performance with much bigger consumption?
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2008 ML320 CDI
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
Forget about bluetec diesel. They sell here normal 320CDI engine that has 224BHP and 500NM while 350 V6 has 272BHP and much less torque.
And just by the way, my stock ML320CDI is faster than a stock ML350. What is the point of paying for same or less performance with much bigger consumption?
And just by the way, my stock ML320CDI is faster than a stock ML350. What is the point of paying for same or less performance with much bigger consumption?
Diesel does produce a lot less c02 then a petro but diesel also produces a lot more nox and sulfur then a petro engine. If you live in a densely populated area, the increased nox and the sulfur would do more harm to the population in terms of air quality and acid rain then any petro engine.
The bluetec was such a accomplisment because it reduced those nox and sulfur levels similar to a petro engine. Only draw back was that it does make the bluetec more expensive to produce then a normal diesel engine.
But i would only consider the mercedes bluetec and i believe vw has a diesel using similar technology as a good petro substitute.
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the bluetec diesel was a huge accomplishment for mercedes. A normal diesel wouldn't even come close to passing california smog standards for a passenger cars.
Diesel does produce a lot less c02 then a petro but diesel also produces a lot more nox and sulfur then a petro engine. If you live in a densely populated area, the increased nox and the sulfur would do more harm to the population in terms of air quality and acid rain then any petro engine.
The bluetec was such a accomplisment because it reduced those nox and sulfur levels similar to a petro engine. Only draw back was that it does make the bluetec more expensive to produce then a normal diesel engine.
But i would only consider the mercedes bluetec and i believe vw has a diesel using similar technology as a good petro substitute.
Diesel does produce a lot less c02 then a petro but diesel also produces a lot more nox and sulfur then a petro engine. If you live in a densely populated area, the increased nox and the sulfur would do more harm to the population in terms of air quality and acid rain then any petro engine.
The bluetec was such a accomplisment because it reduced those nox and sulfur levels similar to a petro engine. Only draw back was that it does make the bluetec more expensive to produce then a normal diesel engine.
But i would only consider the mercedes bluetec and i believe vw has a diesel using similar technology as a good petro substitute.
The NOx emissions are not remidied by the SCR system on the bluetec, which is expensive to produce, but the customer only pays a $1000 premium over the 350 gas.
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but now your comparing a 3.0L 210hp diesel to a 3.5L 268hp petro...its not really a apples to apples comparison given the different engine sizes and significant difference in hp.
210hp moving 4000lbs, i think that would make the car feel pretty anemic and your paying more money for it. I understand power isn't everything but why would someone want to spend $53k on a car thats slower then a $16k civic other then the badge factor.
210hp moving 4000lbs, i think that would make the car feel pretty anemic and your paying more money for it. I understand power isn't everything but why would someone want to spend $53k on a car thats slower then a $16k civic other then the badge factor.
Yes, the 350 has a 58hp advantage, while the diesel has a torque advantage of 142lb-ft and a huge fuel economy advantage, I would gladly pay $1000 more for that.
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S63 COUPE M157
the bluetec diesel was a huge accomplishment for mercedes. A normal diesel wouldn't even come close to passing california smog standards for a passenger cars.
Diesel does produce a lot less c02 then a petro but diesel also produces a lot more nox and sulfur then a petro engine. If you live in a densely populated area, the increased nox and the sulfur would do more harm to the population in terms of air quality and acid rain then any petro engine.
The bluetec was such a accomplisment because it reduced those nox and sulfur levels similar to a petro engine. Only draw back was that it does make the bluetec more expensive to produce then a normal diesel engine.
But i would only consider the mercedes bluetec and i believe vw has a diesel using similar technology as a good petro substitute.
Diesel does produce a lot less c02 then a petro but diesel also produces a lot more nox and sulfur then a petro engine. If you live in a densely populated area, the increased nox and the sulfur would do more harm to the population in terms of air quality and acid rain then any petro engine.
The bluetec was such a accomplisment because it reduced those nox and sulfur levels similar to a petro engine. Only draw back was that it does make the bluetec more expensive to produce then a normal diesel engine.
But i would only consider the mercedes bluetec and i believe vw has a diesel using similar technology as a good petro substitute.
Perhaps in California it makes sense, but not here...
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It does well in the US considering how much MBUSA limits the options available on that model.
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
are you sure about that? i can build a bluetec e-class on the mercedes benz fletcher jones newport beach website.
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
I am pretty sure the sulfur output is determined by the amount of sulfur in the fuel, and now with the LSD, soon to be ULSD, that will not be an issue. In fact, Shell V-Power diesel (not available in the US) is made from natural gas using gas-to-liquid technology, so there is no sulfur and it burns amazingly clean.
The NOx emissions are not remidied by the SCR system on the bluetec, which is expensive to produce, but the customer only pays a $1000 premium over the 350 gas.
The NOx emissions are not remidied by the SCR system on the bluetec, which is expensive to produce, but the customer only pays a $1000 premium over the 350 gas.
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Also, you can read the fine print in the brochure or on MBUSA.
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If the souce of the diesel is natural gas, it does not really matter, it is a matter of processing. It would still be sourced from wherever the gas comes from.
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
It looks like bluetec does reduce nox emissions. I remember thats why bluetec was such a accomplishment because it was one of the first 50 state legal diesels.
take from the mbusa site.
The breakthrough powerplant in the E320 BlueTEC® reduces soot and harmful emissions - without sacrificing power. An oxidation catalytic converter and diesel particulate filter efficiently lower hydrocarbon and particulate emissions, and Selective Catalytic Reduction and DeNOx catalytic converters reduce nitrogen oxides. The result is simply the cleanest production diesel engine available.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...ce=&cardist=16
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...7&rdpage=thumb
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then you should start shopping, i already found a couple of used e320 bluetec diesels in southern california..
It looks like bluetec does reduce nox emissions. I remember thats why bluetec was such a accomplishment because it was one of the first 50 state legal diesels.
take from the mbusa site.
some used blutec model links
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...ce=&cardist=16
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...7&rdpage=thumb
It looks like bluetec does reduce nox emissions. I remember thats why bluetec was such a accomplishment because it was one of the first 50 state legal diesels.
take from the mbusa site.
some used blutec model links
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...ce=&cardist=16
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...7&rdpage=thumb
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
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2009 SL63 AMG
horsepower is the relation between torque and rotational speed. Torque, gearing and rotational speed are all important in how quick a vehicle can travel. Its not just torque thats important, its the combination of the three.
Keep in mind gearing multiples the torque you put to the ground. Higher rotationals per min allows for more aggressive gearing. Given that most people don't want to study all thoses factors, horsepower is the generally accepted measure of how quick a car can be. It doesn't matter what you butt dyno saids.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with diesels, other then the fact i don't believe they will be as popular in the US as it is in Europe. For the reason's i stated above.
Keep in mind gearing multiples the torque you put to the ground. Higher rotationals per min allows for more aggressive gearing. Given that most people don't want to study all thoses factors, horsepower is the generally accepted measure of how quick a car can be. It doesn't matter what you butt dyno saids.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with diesels, other then the fact i don't believe they will be as popular in the US as it is in Europe. For the reason's i stated above.
