Das Geld 2

no time slips anywhere

93 Octane ABC

I had a friend with a new Camaro SS who claimed he beat an M3 DCT coupe. Did not believe him one bit.

DCT M3 coupes are quite fast/quick. DCT M3s should definitely beat a CLK550 especially since they're closer to stock C63 AMGs.

What. Are you saying now that your CLK550 is very close to a stock C63 AMG?

Jons95c36amg

My sig shows the times and trap. Stock C63 runs mid 12s@114+. A DCT M3 would be a close race. The 6spd M3 being few cars back. Which is definitely noticeable. BTW the best trap for a Clk550 is 109. I think it would be a good run to my Clk55.

Jons95c36amg

Stock C63 is close to a Clk550? Just look at the traps. The Clk550 is I will be generous 110. Thats at least 5mph slower then a C63. Come on!

kbahl21

Motortrend professional driver in 2011 BMW M3 recorded the 1/4mile @ 12.8@ 110
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

Now motortrend has never tested the CLK550 but i can give you the time for a CLK550 driven by a normal person(not a professional)

http://www.dragtimes.com/2009-Merced...eos-22630.html

jbak

Certainly some cars *should* beat others, but sh*t happens. A good example would be forgetting to lower your pressures at the strip, then having a loss of traction. Not every run lives up to what the car SHOULD do.

kbahl21

whatever, this is another lost cause. ill be sure to take video next time

e1000

So let me get this straight, you're comparing a stock, 6-speed M3 (DCT is absolutely faster) against a modified CLK550 (pulley, tune) and the M3 still beats it out by the numbers......

Stock for stock, a DCT M3 will smoke a CLK550.

Here's a timeslip of a M3 with similar mods to your CLK550. +6 tenths faster than your CLK550.

http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-M3-Timeslip-17264.html

kbahl21

For some reason even wth tune and pulley my stock car is just as fast(prob because he had a lot of problems when he went to the track)). I have not gone to track yet but I will. Like I said, this argument isn't going anyWhere ill take a video next time I run one. The e39 m5 ppl gave me the same argument untill I destroyed it in front of them. Ill post back here when I have a video

Improviz

Yes, please post a video of your modded CLK pulling a stock M3 if you can, it would be great to see.

Also please post a timeslip of a CLK550 pulling anything close to a 113+ mph trap speed.

Trap speed, you see (I explain this because you seem to be very blissfully aware of what it actually is, or the ramifications thereof) is the speed at which a vehicle is traveling at the end of a 1/4 mile run. The timeslip from the perenially-trolling-and-banned badblack, (which you are well aware of, yet continue to act as his proxy in post after post, which casts doubt imo on your own honesty and credibility given that you're aware that he's been caught flat-out lying on innumerable occasions) you linked to shows a trap speed of 108.91.

That would be about 7 mph slower than the M3 timeslip linked to by e1000, which I'll post here as a courtesy since you obviously didn't bother to read it, or are just simply delusional:


Now, I don't know how Physics work in your neck of the woods, but here on Planet Earth, if vehicle "B" traps 7 mph faster than vehicle "M", then if you run vehicle "B" against vehicle "M" in any given race and both drivers can actually drive, guess which vehicle is going to pull away, fast?

Of course, this is modded vs modded (fair), but you guys always want to compare modded vs. stock (unfair). But even a stock ***DCT***, as tested by the same publication you rolled out earlier, Motor Trend, has a 4 mph faster trap than BADBLK's modded CLK550 hit (and I note that it was 60' time, not trap, that got this time; trap is where it should be, but that 60' time that is, for that vehicle, pretty dubious on street tires in a CLK550, but leaving that aside....)
[url]http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0806_2008_bmw_m3_dct_first_drive/specifications.html[]url]
0-60 4.1
0-100 9.7
Quarter mile 12.6 sec @ 113.2 mph

Hmm, 4 mph faster in a stock DCT than the modded run you posted. Gee, which is faster?

I would also point out that, in your little cherry-picking campaign, you conveniently managed not to find these nugget, of the two *stock* CLK550s listed on dragtimes:
First car: 13.256 @ 108.132
Second car: 13.280 @ 107.840

Hmm, looks like stock vs stock, M3s are pulling 4 to 7 mph faster traps than the *slowest* stock CLK550 on there (hey, if you can cherry pick, so can I), or even if you compare vs the fastest, it's a 3 to 6 mph trap speed difference.

But why stop there? Let's look at all of the stock E90/E92 M3 times/traps on dragtimes:
12.510 @ 114.810 (6 spd)
12.610 @ 113.110 (6 spd)
12.610 @ 113.020 (DCT)
12.785 @ 109.360 (not provided)
12.798 @ 114.620 (not provided)
12.910 @ 111.020 (6 spd)
12.994 @ 108.090 (DCT)
13.010 @ 110.410 (6 spd)
Average: 12.778375 @ 111.805 (also note that the two fastest were 6 speed manuals)

The average of the two stock CLK550s from dragtimes: 13.268 @ 107.986

Difference: 0.489625 seconds and 3.819 mph.

Now, of course if you come up against a lousy driver who can't launch worth a flip, you could make a respectable showing in a 1/4 run, but after that, unless he's short-shifting or bumping off the rev limiter on every shift, you're toast up high.

But that's driver error, and everyone knows that making mistakes can cost a faster car a race against a slower car. But what you seem to be arguing is that you've got the *faster* car.

But the numbers that even you provide show that this ins't the case: modded vs stock, even the slower M3 six-speed managed to post a *faster* trap in the 1/4 mile, with a 2 mph higher trap (12.8 @ 110.9), than the time posted by badblaci's *modded* car, *and* bearing in mind that a) he has been repeatedly caught lying in this forum and gets banned for inciting trollfests at least once a month, and b) on each and every occasion before he was banned where he was challenged to actually show up and repeat one of the "miracle kill stories" that he was always posting in this forum, he suddenly crawled into the woodwork and disappeared, I see no reason whatsoever to give his claims of having done the run on street tires any credence at all.

Further, the stock vs stock data plainly show that M3s are faster, by 0.489625 seconds and 3.819 mph on average for *all* models.

kbahl21

God damn u wrote a lot. The m3's I ran were from 30&40rolls. I don't plan on running any from digs because they have launch control. The next time I post here it'll be with a video so don't bother even answering this I just don't give a **** anymore

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Being an M5 driver for years I can tell you I've seen a good dispersion in A. Peoples' ability to drive their ///M cars and also B. Differing performances from the same model.

///M cars are built to ridiculously tight tolerances. Everything has to work perfectly, Hans better be on his game building your S85 or you could be down 20 ponies easy. I can pull fifty forum threads where peoples ///M cars broke down with low miles on them, and I can tell you from my experience I never had an issue (other than sheer age/miles causing my clutch to go at 90k miles).

All cars, despite coming from the same assembly line, are still built by people who can screw the pooch (or forget to screw the pressure plate properly). My M5 was FAST. Dyno'd at 426rwhp bone stock. It was very strong from the factory, most people don't get that lucky.

Same goes for cars that are factory freaks. Your CLK could be unusually strong, and would be consistent in its numbers due to the auto tranny doing the work. I have no doubt that you've beaten M3's on the road, that is beyond question, anything can happen in the street man and they're close enough to you in performance that it is a drivers' race.

e1000

Now here's a man that knows what he's talking about.

Or CH, this guy is just full of ****.

sinister55

Was it a coupe or convertible with the top up?
I have a c55 lightly modded and beat a conv m3,
My friend has the sedan, stock, and I beat him by a car length at 120mph
The m gas very aggressive gearing which is a huge factor
If a m coupe raced me, I don't think it would be a walk in the park.

Improviz

I know, I know, it's a glaring fault of mine: I have this problem with continuously trying to introduce documented facts into fantasy-based discussions, sorry about that...

Improviz

I am starting to have my doubts. He's basically been playing this little two-step, where he on one hand feigns disapproval of badblack's trolling etc., but then turns around and introduces something documenting his heroic exploits, as in this thread, where he trots out a timeslip from badblack, and instead of telling us it's from him, acts as though it's from some unknown driver, when he knows damn well whose slip it is...

But as we all know, this badblack used to come into this forum, post pretty unlikely kill stories, and then disappear when challenged to show up and beat said car in person; further, he's been caught flat out lying, as a few months ago when he claimed to own a CLK55 that was in the 12's, i.e. the *last* time he got caught and banned from these forums, and in innumerable other instances.

Anyone who views someone like that as an honest broker, or tries to protray him as one without IDing him, is simply not credible in my book.

Ny01

Cylinder Head, don't call me a name unless you have your facts...which you don't. Grow up! I only wrote a little of my background to try and give some legitimacy and convey that I'm not some teenager posting a BS story. I don't even know who the heck you and others are referring to as a Troll other than it must be one of the other posters who have posted in the past on this forum. Oddly, for as annoyed I was at your name calling, I agree with your last post. It's a driver's race and I said I won in that scenario. I did not take it to 120mph, we went to like 85+mph and I was happy to see my car did well. That's it plain and simple. My car that I bought kept up with a well rated car and I was happy to see it and decided to post. I'm sure some M3's(maybe most) would beat me. No idea and could care less if I lost. I live in Westwood part of Los Angeles and if anyone has a cool Merc or M3 that would like to meet up and chat, send me a message. Cheers!

kbahl21

Coupe was manual. The rest were sedans with DCT

sinister55

Yea it does, 7 gears of whipping a 9K redline ouchhh

kbahl21

I don't condone coming up with fake names every month and posting a story. And me being the idiot I am automatically assumes that it is a new person who also had the same experience, gets involved again.

In this case, I do not think it is him considering if it was NY01 would have been banned already.

Look, personally the car hasn't been on the 1/4 so I can't give u mine. I will do it on the next private track rental I attend.

People know I'm not bull****ting about beating one
because there were people there when I beat one.
And also the one time I did lose to an e92 m3 from a 40roll I admitted it on mbworld and m3post right away that I was in the wrong gear and it was entirely my fault so he won fair and square. The guy I raced that time posted up on bimmerpost that I lost by a car and I congratulated him for it because a win is a win.

You posting 1/4 time for every m3 on dragtimes doesn't mean anything since half the people A) just send the slip and don't fill out anything else or B) are running on drag radials. There is no way to know unless you witness it in person. I have been to etown many times and everytime I have went I have yet to see a single stock e92 m3 run anything faster than a 12.8

And honestly I don't care about the track time since I drive my car on the streets everyday. I ran the M's on the empty street of mexico. So your 1/4 times don't mean anything as far as 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear pulls go. Great...the car runs 12point whatever on the track with launch control,fatter tires etc. Those factors really don't matter from a roll so the car does not have that added advantage over mine. All the m3 drivers agreed to racing from a roll. If you honestly believe that in a stock vs stock run between a car rated at 382hp and 391tq vs a car rated at 414hp and 295tq bothing weigh roughly the same from a low roll(since that is basically what happens when u run on the street)the car with 100 less tq would win then idk why I even bother wasting my time here. And if you are going to say top end the m will pull remeber that the clk is limited to 135mph. The only reason I even posted a slip is because that seems to be the only thing you care about.

Ill see if anybody I know has a vbox I can borrow, slap it on my car and record the data. We can then use my data and compare that to an M3.

In every thread ever mentioned about a clk and an m3 there has never been an instance when the clk driver said "I would take an m3 in the 1/4". All I have said is that on the street the clk550 is faster, that is,untill the road gets twisty of course.

Ny01

Well said Kbahl21. I still can't get over that this is a Mercedes board with so much negativity. I previously had an Audi and Infiniti and never seemed to see people question such a close comparison as BS. Someone NEEDS to get a video posted!

93 Octane ABC

Yo buddy. Read my sentence and interpet my post a little more carefully.

The CLK550 IS SLOWER than the DCT M3/C63 no doubt about that. The DCT M3 is closer to the C63 AMG. My whole post basically implied that.

Improviz

It's not just the fake names, and you know it. This loser was *repeatedly* called out, and he *never*, *once* manned up and showed up to prove his car could do what he said it could do, which hardly lends credibility to his asinine claims.

Yet, in this thread, as others, you trot out his 1/4 mile slip, disengenuously identify him as some "joe average" because you know damn well that if you told it was badblack we'd be more (deservedly) skeptical, etc.

And then, below, you have the stones to throw rocks at dragtimes, after YOU were the guy who first introduced it into the thread? Give me a break, dude...the same arguments you make about the M3s could just (and more likely are) as easily be applicable to your buddy badblack, particularly the drag radials in light of his very low 60' time.

Unless he's using a proxy or is having some toolbag on the west coast post for him, not out of the question with this moron.

Great, finally post some numbers and let's see your 113 mph trap.

I've run both of these cars, and a well-driven M3 would easily pull a CLK550.

And everything you just said is applicable to the single CLK550 timeslip that you cherry-picked off of dragtimes when YOU introduced dragtimes into the discussion, and very conveniently left out the slower, more-realistic times that I posted above. Who knows what you've done to your car?

Case in point: there was some E46 M3 guy who, supposedly, ran 12.x in a "stock" M3 and had it on video, but when you freeze-framed the video, you could see that: 1. the car's front passenger seat had been removed; 2. the rear wheels were not stock and differed from the front (can you say "drag radials"), and so forth...one time, nor one car, doth not a trend establish.

It does, however, have a huge gearing advantage over yours, and a horsepower advantage.

Ferraris aren't torque monsters either, but the new ones seem to be trapping around 130 mph with about the same lb-ft of torque as your car has; wonder how they do it?

So yes, based upon power and actual, measured trap speeds, I do believe it, because I've seen the 0-xx times for the M3 and they're faster and I have run both cars from down low up to triple digit speeds. Furthermore, you should research power and gearing sometime and stop endlessly reciting torque as the be-all, end-all of drag races, seemingly unaware of gearing, its effects upon acceleration, and the much closer ratios of the M cars' gearing progression. I personally attended an event where a bunch of E55 and M5 guys got together, and for some reason the M5s with their much lower torque than the the E55s managed to win plenty of rolling-start races. Which would be because of gearing, and horsepower.

And the proof is in the numbers. I've seen no evidence of any CLK550, ever, trapping 110+, but there are plenty of M3s that are well beyond that.

So on aggregate, the M3 is faster. You keep spinning all you like, but numbers is numbers, and they are not on your side here.

Facts are all I care about. Show me some that buttresses your argument and we'll talk.

A stock M3, or one with mods like yours? Because modded vs. stock hardly establishes that stock vs stock a CLK550 is faster, which it isn't, as Euro test data, timeslips, etc etc etc plainly show.

Shoot, if you think you can hang with an M3, why not give Jon's C63 a run and get it on vid? He's said that DCTs give him a pretty good run, so you oughtta be right there with him, right? Or are you saying that you can pull a DCT, but not hang close with Jon's car somehow, given that he said the DCTs wun him pretty tight?

This ought to be good....

So do like we did: get some folks together, rent a track somewhere, and videotape it; if your buddy badblack would ever have shown up when he was called out multiple times before they banned him, we could have put this to bed years ago. The test data for these cars from both sides of the pond show that the M3s are conclusively faster when well-driven. Once you get beyond a 4 mph difference in trap, that's a pretty big gap.

I mean, seriously: if someone in a car that trapped 101 or 102 was in here talking smack about he'd always pulled CLK550s, you'd be all over him like flies on stink with mag quotes, dragtimes slips, the works, but we're just supposed to take any claim as factual, no matter how far fetched, particularly when badblack is cited as a reference?

Get real. This isn't the Mercedes fanboy forum, it's the kill stories section. Having a three-pointed star on the hood doesn't get you a pass.

kbahl21

Look man there's no point arguing with you again. We've argued the same **** over like 3 threads already. Ill come back with video.

I can garuntee that no matter how many videos I show u guys I will hear the "The m3 driver doesn't know what he's doing" but whatever, at least I know you will feel like a douche when I prove u wrong.

by the way my car is stock unless you count the secondary cat(people also say its a resonator) and resonator delete and k&n filters modded

kbahl21

@Jon, whose M3 did you run