JJunkins

I can explain why I have lashed out against my ML over the past 6 months. Honestly I love this car but it's a lemon beyond lemons. I love the MCS and navigation, I love the fact that its a Mercedes, period. The quality disgusts me.

I have solid proof that Mercedes officials read these posts and others such websites as www.mercedes-lemons.com (try and find a site dedicated to BMW lemons.....can't be done!)

If they understand the customers, REAL customers are lashing out to others about their vehicles, then maybe some quality issues will change in the future. How do you think the auto climate came about in the 2002's? Sometime in the future, they will put the cool controls onthe steering wheel.

You have to look at it this way. It's a genius marketing idea. The first 2 years they had that crappy gray skirt all the way around. Then the painted it, making 98 and 99 owners want a new one. They buy another. Then came the front end redesign and auto climate. Well, 2000 and 2001 owners wanted that, they buy another.

In 1998 they could have did it right the first time. No, they had to devise a plan to get more money. If they would have put in the climate control, steering controls and MCS in 1998, I'm there would be a lot of 98 owners with their 98 ML's.

The ML500 is wicked hard. I would buy if I was positive I would not have the quality issuses I had in the past.

missthebus

Hi JJ,
As far as I can understand from your post, your car is a lemon because it does not have the cool button or buttons on the steering wheel or is there more to it.

Missthebus

Darkmann

JJ, I'm certain you would not find these quality problems with MY02 and 03 ML's. Though they are certainly not problem free, MB has made a lot of effort to make things right. I believe their efforts have been a direct result of reading complains on these web sites, reading user complaints sent to them and most of all, warranty cost. It costs them a lot of money to keep up with warranty repairs, so they have every interest in making things better. I have a 02 320 and the problems are far and few - leaky light gaskets and broken passenger seat support post. Both were repaired quickly, and during that time I had a MB loaner car for my daily chores. Get a MY03 ML500 and you won't regret it. yes, we have to rant and rave when you plicker down $40K+ onto a SUV. You expect problem free operation. It's not the case with the ML's, but they are a lot better now, and BTW, the bimmers are not immune to this at all. They've actually had more bad luck than the ML's. I'll get you a complaint site as soon as I recall where I saw one.

JJunkins

I talked to my lawyer today. He told me that they have sent a response and that I am now in a "discovery" period in which Mercedes sends papers for me to fill out and basically gather information about my views and opinions on my car. I hope to get something else very soon.

I was planning on getting a 330ci after I gave up my ML. I searched and searched for a site dedicated to BMW lemons. I couldn't find one. If you find it, please post it.

My problems are not all cosmetic. A few are is very safety related. And others are just annoying and frusturating. I hope the ML500 run like a spotted butt ape! I borrowed one for a week and I really enjoyed it. I really like the chrome on the lift gate and the wicked cool rims. That front bumper is bangin too. It looks like a real machine. I'd take that but they can keep the payments.

Hugebob

Here's a BMW lemon site. Even though my purchase is in the distant future, I'm still very torn: X5 4.4i or ML500.

JJunkins

Look at the year model of those vehicles on that site. Nothing new. Then go look at www.mercedes-lemon.com and look at those year models.

Hugebob

I just went to that site. Oh my goodness!!! What kind of operation is MB running?? I wonder if these problems plague European MB customers. If not, one might consider European delivery.

amb9800

You actually think that MB deliberately made the first MLs have less features and gradually added them for the purpose of having the owners upgrade to newer model years? This is actually known as updating a car - how can you expect a car model, especially these days in the modern car industry, to remain the same throughout its whole model cycle?

Yes, if MB had made the original MLs better-quality vehicles with more of the features that the rest of the MBs had, they would have less problems with the early MLs at this time. However, it is easy to overlook the fact that the original ML had to create a market for itself. MB pioneered the midsize-luxury-SUV market, and in order to create the market, had to make the ML easier to buy - to make a lower price. In order to do so, they had to do some cost-cutting to make the truck affordable. If they had not, they would end up with a great SUV, but the base ML320 would surely cost more than $40,000, which no one would buy - the market didn't even exist at that time. The best example is the earliest ML brochures, in which the comparison section had to use trucks such as the Ford Explorer, Ford Expedition, and the Toyota Landcruiser, which were out of its league altogether, which shows proof that MB had to create its own market.

Actually when I went to the 2000 NY International Auto Show, I talked about future features, etc. in the ML with the senior MB rep at the show (who happened to work at my local dealer) and he said that they were developing a dual-climate control system for the ML, as many other MBs had, as a 'model equalization' measure - not because of consumer complaints, etc.

These days, unless you live in a Utopian world, you can never be sure of anything in the car industry. It is not only MB that is affected - it's actually most of the luxury industry - for example, BMW as well. There are two main reasons - first is that so many systems in new cars are being controlled by computer systems, which are inherently many times 'bug-full' and secondly that there is such cut-throat competition now that companies prefer mass-produced, low-quality, profit-making, loss-cutting cars over good cars that are very nice and reliable but don't sell as much. That's an effect of new technology and today's fast-paced society.

Regarding BMW, they have many problems, especially the X5 and the new 7-series. The X5 has many quality problems, as well as major safety issues, such as spontaneous combustion, etc. And as to why there are very few BMW-Lemon sites - it is generally true that a large number of BMW buyers are very brand-loyal and many times take that to the extent of keeping quiet about there problems and not making 'lemon sites.' Just go to any BMW forum for proof of this.

Thanks.

Hugebob

Hi,

I'm in no position to doubt you in the least. What concerns me, however, are some of the things I'm reading. People have to resort to lawsuits to get deserved service? If it's broke, fix it and fix it correctly. I'm sure no one on this board expects a "perfect" vehicle. There's no such thing. But when I bring my ML in for repairs and the same item needs to be fixed more than once, something needs to be done. Frankly, if you can't produce a dependable product for $40000, make dependability the goal and jack up the price! That's the American way. X5's cost more than ML's and aren't much better and people are still paying more. Can you imagine what ML sales would be if the word got out that these things were built to last and were relatively trouble free? Or at least once items got fixed they stayed that way?

amb9800

I know what you mean here, but modern business doesn't work this way. MB used to do this, but if you build your cars to a standard and not to a price, you end up with hugely expensive cars that few people will buy, which in turn lessens the profit. And in today's market, that's a fatal choice.

I remember reading somewhere that an MB official commented on their own section in the 1988 Auto Show (don't know which one) that although their cars were probably the most solid and reliable in the show, their display was holding some of the heaviest, un-performance exciting cars in the show - Mercedes needed a revitalization for the modern market.

And today consumers are not motivated by reliability or brand as much as they are by $$$$, and that's what has changed the luxury industry for the worse.

Well I think generally people expect a car to be reliable, so they would just say - ok so it's reliable, now what about the price? So they go and find it's much more expensive than the they wanted, and they don't buy it -- which means a commercial failure for MB, which no car company can afford at this point.

Anyway, I think this just comes down to the modern consumer, who is willing to give his money to the person that gives him something that looks good for the least amount of money - he doesn't care as much about what the car is actually like.

New Kia's look increasingly like luxury cars with cheap prices -- they will be very successful with that idea. See BMW's upcoming 1-Series - starting at $16,000 - that's Kia/Hyundai/Honda/Toyota/Daewoo (used to be)/etc. range, not luxury. And then probably MB will bring their A-Class to the US and Audi will bring their A2, so that will be a full range of 'pseudo-luxury cars.'

Hugebob

Do you think European-built ML's are are any better?

amb9800

Actually, they say that they are better than the US-built ones. Or to be more correct, they were better - all ML's are now made in Tuscaloosa, AL.

But still not as good as many of the other MB's are/were - the ML was designed to be a cost cutting car - the US-production is only one factor in the problems.

TestnDoc

Get rid of the ML and buy a Lexus

Hugebob

Too expensive (for me anyway). The LX470 run $60K+. The RX 300 is so-so.

BenVan

My 99ML430 has had so many garage-visits that I have lost count. With 80,000km looming, I dread my repair bills without the warantee.

I understand they have improved the quality, I just wish I had stuck with my previous vehicle before getting a '99.

Some of the items replaced/fixed in the past YEAR off the top of my head:
Air conditioning unit
Fuel Pump
Front shocks
Dash lights (twice)
Two headlights (has anybody else noticed that there are a TON of MLs with one headlight out?)
Lock strikers
Window motors
Fuel guage
Power steering pump
Bushings
Cupholder (three times)
Side marker (due to moisture)

*sigh*

I'm getting a Cayenne I think....

Thai

Well, now there is an alternative, the new Lexus GX470!

You can check it out here:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showth...s=&threadid=11

I still don't know why people STILL fall for the ML...it is a proven POS. Yeah, the problems are less than in '98, BUT the number of problems now are still BELOW AVERAGE, especially for a luxury brandname.

Toyota & Lexus vehicles also have many computer-controlled gizmos/functions. However, it seems like they get it right the first time. The LS430, in it's FIRST year, was rated as having the FEWEST problem of ANY vehicle!

Thanks.

Drew_ML

Uh nice...posting here just to get the URL of the 4Runner board out? I've seen that post just about everywhere! Spam? I think so.

Thai

Drew,

You never did answer my post over at Acuramdx.org Comparison section about the inconsistencies of the ML.

Thanks.

j2nh

2000 ML-430 purchased new 2/12/00.

8/28/01
ETS?BAS light on dash is on and will not shut off.
Repair brake light switch.
Right rear passenger window has sound dampening material stuck to it.
Removed soundproofing from door.
Sunroof has soundproofing material stuck to it.
Removed headliner and removed the material per service bulletin.
Left side of drivers seat bottom coming loose.
Replaced screws.
Passenger side 12v accessory power plug inoperable.
Replaced fuse.
Center armrest cover leather coming apart.
Replaced the center armrest leather.
Vanity light on mirror on passengers side inoperative.
Replaced mirror.

11/26/01
Drivers door wont open when locked.
Adjust and Check function.
Sunroof whistles Repair again.
Adjust and correct position of sunroof.

3/01/02
Coolant light coming on when driving.
Improperly installed lower clamp from factory. Replaced.

3/02/02
Coolant light coming on when driving.
Top off coolant.

5/3/02
Transmission Failure.
Replaced transmission.
Brake squeal.
Replaced rotors and pads.
No complaint.
Performed fuel line, filter and pump update.
Drivers door will not open from the outside when the door is locked.
Replaced lock actuator and door handle.

11/25/02
Transmission Failure. Vehicle will not move out of low (1st gear)
Plastic over instruments has cracked vertically in two places.
Sunroof still howls badly.

I just watched them tow the vehicle out of my driveway for the second time in 6 months with a transmission failure. I feel like an *** for spending this kind of money for something that has had more problems than any of the vehicles I have ever owned.
Jim
00 ML 430 LEMON blue metalic.
01 996 NOT ONE WARRANTY ISSUE IN 12 MONTHS
94 Subaru Legacy RUNS LIKE A CHAMP

S55inPA

hey guys,
i've had an 00 ML430 and now have an 02 ML500. i am amazed at the problems some people are having with their ML's. i have not had any of these problems. the fit and finish is also excellent.
maybe both my vehicles were made on the dayshift at the alabama plant!....they must be boozing it up at night!

timdf

My ML430 '00 was a pain in the #ss for the first 30,000 miles or so (even more trouble than yours), but for the past 10,000 its been behaving its self (or I've just given up on it) - but I've had very similar problems to yourself except my transmission failure was on my '02 996 tip whose tranny was made by MB !!!!!

Guess this is my first & last 'quality' MB product, as like yourself the ML has given me way more grief than all my previous vehicles put together.

Seems when MB build a lemon they build a really good lemon....

And as for MB USA attitude - what attitude???

Maybe you should post your info over on www.mercedes-lemon.com ?

Oops - just checked, noticed you have already :-)

Good luck (you'll need it, especially if you're unlucky enough to live in So Cal where the regional rep is a waste of space)

Tim

'00 ML430 with over 23 warranty repairs
'02 Porsche 996 with 1 warranty repair (MB manufactured transmission)

Drew_ML

LOL, why? Most of the members at that site are smart enough to know know that you're just baiting for a "fight" + trying to get traffic to your own boards. I won't be wasting my time going into a circular argument. :o

timdf

I may have (had) problems with my ML, but arguing over the pro's and con's of brand x over brand y in a combatitive manner does no one any good :-)

j2nh

Limp home mode was the result of bad relay located under the main fuse block. Fault codes C1025 and C1200. Tech also found a fault (N1144) for the MCS GPS navigation system. Replaced navigation antenna.
New plexiglass over instrument cluster is on order and will be replaced ant next scheculed service (3500 miles). Dealer also will address excessive sunroof noise when the sunroof is closed.
MBUSA is supposed to contact me regarding the excessive warranty work that has been done on this vehicle early next week. Service Manager assured me that after speaking with MB he has the option of doing work on the vehicle at MB's expense once the warranty expires. After some discussion we agreed that that is not the best way to proceed so I will wait and review this with MB next week.
j2nh

theine

Hugebob, don't even sweat it. You cannot compare the X5 4.4 with the ML-500. the X5 is the Queen of the SUV's period. BMW has to teach MB how to build SUV's the ML sucks, drives like shi**
and is full of bugs. The Jeep Crand Cherokee Limited is a bettter truck! And I am a Merceds-Bens fan, but no SUV's please.