achen

hi everyone, I am the first time visitor. I am buying a SUV and I really like the ML series, by the budget I have, I can probably buy a 2000 or 2001 ML320.

When I asked around, I got very surprising feedback about the M series, 80% or people who I asked told me DO NOT buy a ML because it's got a lot of problem.

Since I am here at the forum for ML users, I wish you guys don't take it offended, but could someone tell me honestly if that comments are true?

Enigma869

Achen...

I own a 2003 ML500 and would not buy another ML. As I've said in previous postings, if this is the best Mercedes can do building an SUV, I'm not impressed! Also, if you do a little research, you'll find out that the older model ML's are even worse and more plagued by problems. I believe Mercedes wanted to capitalize on the extremely high demand for SUV's and didn't really put enough thought into the quality of the ML.

Having said that, if you really want the ML, I would say buy it. Just don't think because it has that Mercedes emblem on it that the quality is what you would expect. My advice to you would be try to pick one up as cheaply as you can, as I probably wouldn't feel as badly about my purchase if I had purchased it used and spent a lot less money on it, than brand new on the showroom floor.

If you're not completely set on Mercedes, I would give the Acura SUV a strong look as well as the Lexus RX300, as there are tons of them for sale in the used market. Although I don't really love the way either of them looks, they are both built far superior to the ML, and if you do your homework, you'll find there are MANY more satisfied owners of those vehicles than the ML.

John from Boston

amb9800

While the early ('98, '99, even some '00's) ML's were not very good quality-wise, the later ones are much better, particularly the '02-and-up, as the ML was facelifted in 2002, with over 1200 new parts.

The ML is the first civilian Mercedes to be built in the US -- the quality does not match German-built MB's, but I wouldn't say it's bad. It matches or exceeds the quality of competitors like the BMW X5.

I would say that you should go for a 2002 or later ML if possible, if not then 2001. The price difference between the '01 and '02 isn't all that much -- I think it's worth it though.

The ML is quite a capable SUV - the idea was to combine a relatively large interior with car-like on-road handling and strong off-road capabilities (for a consumer-aimed car anyway), unlike car-based "SUV's" like the Acura MDX and Lexus RX, which are respectively, a "crossover-ed" Honda Odyssey and a raised Camry wagon in essence.

There are MANY satisfied owners of ML's - the reason why it looks negative when looking through online forums is that people who have had problems are much more vocal than those who have not.

I can tell from personal experience that our '02 ML has had no problems, but it only has about 7K miles -- a better reference is a relative of mine who has an '01 ML320 with almost 40K miles - not a single non-routine visit to the dealer.

If you look into the Lexus RX, look only at the (new) RX330 - the RX300 was very much smaller than the ML - you will get a lot less usable space. Versus the Acura MDX, it's just personal preference - I much prefer the ML's design to the MDX...

So to answer your question, I would look at '02 or newer ML's for the best quality -- the ML really hasn't changed since 2002 (except for the DVD nav module in 2003 - which you can add to an '02 easily anyway).

The ML has been out since late 1997 - there's no question that it's not a shiny new design - the next-generation M-Class is coming next year - likely to be unveiled in January.

If you can wait until then, you can -- the benefit will be that the prices on the current model will probably drop a bit -- if not, then go for it - the ML is not a bad car.

amb9800

Mercedes created the market of mid-size luxury SUV's. Their job of convincing people to buy a car like this was much harder than just making a car for an existing market demand.

This is evidenced by the comparative analysis shown in the first ML brochures - the ML had no real competition - they had to list things like the Ford Explorer, Expedition, Toyota Land Cruiser, etc.

So to ensure that people would buy a car like that, MB had to cut the costs. Estimates show that if the quality level in '98 had been the same as the E-Class, the ML would have to be sold for no less than $45,000, which would fail to create a market and thereby prevent the Lexus RX, BMW X5, Acura MDX, etc. from ever coming into existence.

So yes, the early ML's had a number of cost-cutting issues -- but the later MLs are completely different animals as far as quality is concerned.

pointman

i think the mls are a great product. some people have suffered from bad builds, but for the most part it is a solid car. once you work out all the little kinks, you should be fine. dont be detered by some who have had bad luck, im sure youll enjoy it.

Enigma869

Hey mbakshi...

While I respect your opinion, I was simply offering my own. I own both a Lexus (LX470) and the ML500, and I believe the Lexus is a far superior vehicle, in EVERY category! Having said that, as I've stated before on this forum, I'm thrilled to see others who own the ML think it's such a wonderful vehicle.

I've owned a lot of cars in my life, and tend to be more critical of a vehicle as the price climbs upward or it is being manufactured by a company who has always been the standard (or so I thought) in auto excellence. As I said, this is my first Mercedes and my last. It's the most overrated car I've ever owned, and Mercedes is very fortunate that they're able to sell a whole lot of vehicles based on reputation. I can honestly say that I was one of the people who bought the ML simply because it was a Mercedes. That being said, I will never buy on reputation again! The ML (and I'm speaking of the 500 only here, as I thought the interior of the 320/350 was too cheap looking) is a nice vehicle for 35-40K, not 50-55K. Hopefully Mercedes will stop resting on their laurels and vastly improve the ML with the redesign.

John from Boston

Darkmann

Yes, you will read about the ugly problems MB has had with the ML in various publications and forums. Yes, the ML does have many issues that you'd not expect of a Mercedes - or of any other reputable manufacturer. Beginning MY02, MB did a major redesign of the ML. Most of the bugs were taken care of, unfortunately, new bugs were also created. MY04 MLs are actually showing up as "best picks". The vehicle is not as well built as the Lexus/Acura/MDX. However, it does offer plenty of room and is extremely capable off/on road with a load of safety features. If you do get one, make it MY02 of better. Do not expect a perfect truck, but expect to have the best ride you'd ever expect in a truck. I love mine so much (MY02) that I have an order to replace it with a MY05. The vehicle is extremely capable, despite its many minor problems.

sosh

Have an 02 ML500 and had a 98 ML320. Both in my estimation are excellent. Had a few issues but they were minor and competently addressed by my dealer. Its a well designed, vehicle tht is assembled reasonably well. ust purchase from a dealer that has a good service reputation not a discounting reputation.

theboogers

had rx300 and was afraid in the corners. had x5 and hated the comfort level. have 2001 ml430 and find it better. dealer takes care of issues without problem.

amb9800

I understand completely - I'm sorry if my post came across as hostile - that's not how I meant it to be.

I was, as you were, expressing my opinion and what I think about the ML. There is no question that there is room to improve on the ML. But in my opinion it is quite a solid car and is still going strong for a car whose design is 7-8, if not more, years old.

achen

Thanks so much for comments from all of you, I already start to like ML from the ML owners!

The other question is.. I couldn't find a lot of ML320's with 2 wheel drive, I dont want 4x4 because I don't need it.. Did they start to make it only 4x4 after certain year? If that is true, what year is that?

pointman

no such thing as 2wd ml.

amb9800

No ML's were ever made without 4WD. The 4-ETS system has been part of the ML design since release.

If we talk about ESP though, which is the advanced traction control system, it was introduced in '99.

GDawgC220

The ML's are a great SUV. Yes, in the beginning, MB made cost cuts because if they wanted to sell any in the U.S. in the mid-size SUV range, they had to. Over the years, they've improved on the design/parts/quality. Each year a little better than the last.

Problems do come and go, but it's not the whole mass of cars that come off the line are defective or have problems. It seems to be a case by case. Some people get better build or quality than others, it seems :p

Nonetheless, the ML is a great SUV, handles well, quite capable of off-roading and most importantly, SAFE. It's one of the safest SUV's out there right now.

Not to say there won't be problems, possibly a few minor things but nothing major like the engine failing on you. The newer the ML, the better, if you budget can squeeze a little more out to get a 02 possibly.

Our ML has been relatively trouble free except for fuel sender (common), cluster-gauge (semi-common)...but as it gets older, seems a little problem here and there arises :p

You'll mostly see things that go wrong with the ML's on this forum, very rarely do you see praises on a vehicle unless it's a brand new car when member's first get them

Good luck!

wml350

I have the 2004 ML and love it

Harder

Hi,

I purchased a 2002 ML320 new in July of 2002. And as far as I am concerned all model year MLs are problem children. Listed below are the issues I have encountered since buying my ML320. I have not even gone into the details on the issues I have had with the Dealer but, I feel a crappy Dealer in not Mercedes Benz’s fault.

However, there is one under lying thread to all my problems and that is I have had not one issue with the Engine and drive train. At least the engine/drive train appears to be solid. Oh one note, I have seen quite a few posts on owners having issues with the automatic transmissions.

Good luck but my recommendation is not to buy a used ML. You will be buying someone else’s headache.

Steven---


Items that have gone wrong with my 2002 ML320

1. Car alarm Motion Sensor went bad causing car alarm to go off at random
2. MCS went bad. No Volume
3. Broken Air vent adjuster
4. Windshield washer bottle level sensor went bad
5. Door Window moldings faded
6. Door covering strip came off both back doors
7. Center console ashtray jammed in the closed position
8. Electronic box cooling fan went bad
9. ML 320 came out of the factory with the wheels not aligned (crab)
10. Steering wheel column cover missing felt, rattles
11. Carpet cover on rear seat came off. Poorly glued on
12. Paint chips very easily on front hood and bumper
13. Rear bumper installed incorrectly at Factory
14. Front driver seat adjustment broke
15. Transmission oil pan gasket leaking oil

timdf

Here's what's gone wrong with my ML - so far...
Many of these problems continue to show up on later model years as MB have not updated the parts.

1. MCS (radio, CD player, nav system) unit failure – replaced under warranty.
2. Mass air flow sensor – replaced under warranty.
3. Brake switch failed – replaced it myself.
4. Remote central locking failure – keys replaced 5 times on 4 separate visits, authorization module changed 3 times. Total of 6 service visits for this problem alone !
5. Engine check light – Oxygen sensor replaced.
6. Engine check light again – Oxygen sensor replaced again.
7. Battery failed without warning at 23,000 miles
8. Front power seat (drivers side failed)
9. Door locks fail to lock – take 2-3 attempts. Authorization module changed again and locks re-aligned.
10. Rear window switches failed. Replaced under warranty.
11. Front driver’s window switch failed. Left with window in stuck down position. Switch & motor replaced under warranty.
12. The passenger front seat rocks under acceleration – loose / broken mount. Repaired under warranty.
13. Fuel gauge inaccurate – replaced under warranty along with fuel pump.
14. Whirling noise from engine – alternator replaced, bad bearing.
15. Front passenger power seat failed – switches replaced.
16. Remote key entry in-operative again – key replaced.
17. Brake pad warning light failed to indicate warn brake pads.
18. Repeated squeaky brakes problems
19. Leaking gas struts for rear tailgate
20. Cracked catalytic converter
21. Excessive sunroof wind noise when open – deflector added FOC by dealer.
22. Auxiliary cooling fan (F44) fuse blown – fixed by installing a slightly higher rated fuse.
23. F44 problem finally fixed by having up-rated harness installed
24. Drivers side seat now loose, rocks back & forth under acceleration.
25. B pillar black plastic wrinkled – replaced under warranty at dealers suggestion, but they messed up the interior trim.
26. The driver’s window rattles when lowered 2-3 inches – sounds like something is tapping the glass inside the door. Still not fixed – seems all ML’s suffer from this problem, ignoring it from now on.
27. Finally had the driver door rattle fixed by having some sound deadening material removed.
28. Center console material cover stretch, replaced under warranty by dealer without my prompt.
29. Squeak coming from the light / handle fixture behind the driver above the rear left hand door. Fixed under warranty.
30. Since the seat belt recall was performed on the rear seat belt it has become more difficult to lower and secure the rear seats. Seats adjusted but still difficult.
31. Leather on underside of rear seats keeps coming un-clipped – poor design, not repaired as yet. Fixed myself.
32. Loud bang from rear seats when going over speed humps – even slowly. Somewhat fixed myself by adding felt.
33. Leaking washer bottle - replaced under warranty

Every trip in our ML is a voyage of discovery - wondering what'll fail this time.

Enigma869

I rest my case! Those of you considering buying an ML of any year should really do your homework. Heck, my dealer told me of the known brake problem on the ML500's that Mercedes has known about for nearly a year and still have done nothing to address the problem.

As for taking the advice of the people on this forum who love the ML, I would say you're probably better off consulting many of the unbiased sources of information widely available on the numerous problems with the ML. Remember, most people will NEVER EVER even consider saying anything disparaging about a car they made the decision to purchase, as that would be admitting they made a mistake, which most never want to do. I think if you do your homework, you'll find thousands of stories from people who think this SUV is a waste of money, and in its class, it ranks at the bottom of the category. Read Consumer Reports 2004 auto buying guide, and you'll see Mercedes at the very bottom of the list in owner satisfaction, after three years. To be fair, that is the Mercedes brand as a whole, and not limited to the ML. That being said, my hunch is many of the complaints are about the ML. I just wish I had taken my own advice and did much more research, before purchasing my 2003 ML500. You live and learn. Mercedes got my money once, but they won't get it again, unless they vastly improve on the present design!

John from Boston

GDawgC220

happy ML owners aren't saying they haven't had problems ya know...everyone with a ML has some kind of problem, minor or major.

Some more unlucky than others. There are many satisfied ML owners and some that are not satisfied, hell it's right here on this board.

I know plenty of ML owners that are satisifed with their ML and haven't had many problems, if at all. You can't say that people won't admit they bought a bad car, there are members here who are happy with their ML's even though they have had some minor issues.

azinn

Lots of good stories here http://www.mercedesproblems.com/ and here http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com/

GDawgC220

where are the sites that have good things to say about MB's and other cars a like?

all you hear about is bad stories that scare people into buying a brand, not just with MB but with all car brands.

azinn

Bottom line is no car or truck is perfect. I was expecting a little better expierience when I bought my ML430 in late 1999. The dealer is what really makes the difference with most cars. Mine has gone out of their way to make things right. Even with all the problems and trips to the dealer, I still like my ML and plan on keeping it for may years. When things go wrong I like going to http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUn...pgmarket=en-us and read about some of their problems.

Stiggs

GDawgC220,

Don't sweat it man, there will always be people who are negative about something because of a bad experience.

What about my 1999 ML430? Did I get a "special case"? Sure some things have gone wrong...but nothing I'm going to freak out about. I've driven jeeps, explorers, trailblazers....all of them OK, but to me the ML430 was king. Of course thats just personal preference. This baby kills in the snow by the way, and the safety I feel is well worth the price.

I guess its all in the eye of the beholder. Don't knock it until you try it. Take a test drive. If its not for you, then its not for you. Case closed. No one will get down on you for that.

Maybe I was lucky. But Thank God I was. This truck has been very good to me. No complaints. I would definitely buy another.

My 0.02$

Darkmann

I don't know what your dealer is smoking. THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH THE ML500 BRAKES, NONE!!! The pads are soft, hence they wear much faster than an average Nissan's. That's the way it's designed. The squeal is also due to the soft pads shearing too much brake dust onto the rotor. Result is that you get excellent braking in almost any driving condition!!! If you don't like the stopping distance, replace the pads with more durable ones and you'll be just fine. THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM!!! I too hate the ML500 brakes, but it is not a PROBLEM!!!

No, you get the best advice here - John, here's where people like you get the opportunity to express their honest opinions about their dislike for the ML. Here's where you get the most honest opinions about the truck. I like mine, not because it is problem free. Heck, I traded a perect Nissan Pathfinder for my ML and I have had several problems with the ML. However, my overall experience has been very satisfying - I get a MB loaner car every time my truck's in for anything, the FSS system is a best in class, my overall maintenance cost is actually lower than what it was with my Nissan, etc. Yes, the ML can be a problem vehicle. But it still remains a bargain in its class. That you have to admit!!!

Why the heck did you even consider this vehicle after all your research???? The reason for this ranking, if I may even begin to guess, is because people have come to expect near perfection from MB. A lot of people who have had problems with their MLs complain loudest - and I don't blame them after plunking down 50+ big ones. The ML is not well put together, I admit, and it's taken a hit for that. But simply because Consume Report ranks it last doesn't mean any thing significant. The ML market in somewhat selective. On the other hand, there are a lot more ML owners who haven't had any problems with their trucks, and would buy another in a minute. These people mostly consider Consumer Reports a big joke!!1 It may rank at the bottom, but it's selling, despite it's age. Remember, this was C&D's truck of the year when it came out in 1998. After that, others copied, modified and did better - that's well expected.

Don't patronize John!!! I have a few MB products in my garage, and regardless of how much loyalty I have for MB, their overall quality (on all models) over the past few years is pitiful!!! That's the truth. The ML has been the worst in quality. However, MB still remains a leader in technomotive creativity!!! I skipped the Lexus brand (your favorite and extremely well put together, I admit!!!) because Lexus didn't really "wow' me with anything new. MB did, period. It may not work all the time, but isn't that what the Lexus' of the planet are for?, just like ADT.

Here's my advice to the ML bashers on this board and else where: if you despise the ML so much, get rid of it and save save us all the whinning, including me??? I'm upgrading to a MY05 350 or 500 depending on my wallet, John from Boston still has his ML (as much as he hates the truck!!!!!!!!!), but I'm sure he drives the ML more than the Lexus but would grab any chance to slam the ML; how ironic? Enjoy the ML ride, nothing else compares, over all these years!!!!!

Enigma869

Hey Darkmann...

I actually enjoyed your post, even though I didn't agree with most of it! Calling the ML500 a "bargain" at $55K is quite comical! No vehicle that costs over 50K is a bargain in anyone's universe, and especially a poorly built vehicle! In terms of your bet that I drive the ML more than the Lexus, you'd lose that bet hands down. Quite frankly, after driving the Lexus, the ML almost seems archaeic inside! Now, to the points I do agree with you on...You're absolutely correct that I still do own my ML500 and will probably keep it until I find something that I can replace it with! As for the whining...I'm really not here whining at all...I'm simply stating my opinion after driving the ML for almost a year! As far as my research...as I stated in my previous post, I was an idiot and didn't do enough research on the ML before making my purchase. If I had, I never would have made the purchase. While you might think that the opinions of reputable magazines aren't worth the ink they're written in, I believe their opinions are much more valid than anyone who is a self-proclaimed MB enthusiasts, which this board is dedicated to!

In terms of the lack of a brake problem on the ML500's....I would stongly suggest you do your own research on this subject. There ABSOLUTELY IS a problem with the braking system in the ML500's and Mercedes has been aware of this problem for almost a year. If you still think I'm making it up, I would strongly urge you to call Flagship Motorcars in Lynnfield, MA and ask for the service department. Ask them how many ML500 braking systems they replace over a given week, and then ask them why ML500 owners aren't being charged for replacing these brakes, even after the warranty has expired!!!! The brakes in my ML had to be replaced at 8000 miles, and when I called my dealership, the first thing he pointed out to me was how many of these he has run into!

The final thing I'll point out is that my intent is not to "bash" Mercedes! Having said that, a company like MB needs to be held accountable for the quality of the automobiles they build! It's not like they're giving their cars away! People expect more out of a Mercedes than they do out of Ford, and I had FAR fewer problems with a Crown Vic I drove for 6 years than the ML in 6 months! While that may seem harsh to some, it's simply the truth! When some poor, unsuspecting soul walks into an MB dealership, they are expecting nothing but the absolute best in auto design (I surely was). I simply point out to some not as familiar with MB that they should do the research I neglected to do before spending an exorbitant amount of money on a vehicle that I simply don't think is worth what MB is selling them for! Once again, those who love the ML, god bless you! I'm thrilled you haven't had the same problems many ML owners have had. Those of us who have had a different experience will continue to demand MB wake up and build an SUV worth owning before we ever give them any of our money again! Oh, and for the record, I actually do like the way the ML looks (2003 on up)...more so than any SUV on the road, with the exception of the LX470! I figured I should say one nice thing about the ML to explain why I still have the foolish thing in my garage!

John from Boston