FunfDreisig

Is anyone using their ML 320 Bluetec to haul a trailer (5,000-6,000 lbs.) ? If so are you happy?

Back ground:
Our 2001 X5 4.4i (V8) was totaled last week* and we are in the market for a replacement. We live in the Texas Hill Country and used our X5 as our serious tow vehicle. Our little 5x9 trailer with electric brakes is rated at 5,000 lbs. We regularly hauled a couple of tons of limestone, gravel, road base, etc. with this rig.

Now we would like to find a more economical (read fuel efficient) alternative without giving up the nicer features

Funf Dreisig

* The X5 was rear ended by a pickup at 60MPH as my wife slowed to turn right off of a 2 lane ranch road -- OUCH ! The wife is OK The X5 is an organ donor

tarsands

I am looking at a sweet deal on an R63. Can I tow with this ?

Vernl

Glad to hear the wife is fine.Towing with a diesel compared to a gas motor is night and day . You will be amazed at the difference. If you have the MB factory hitch setup you are good for over 7000lb . I tow heavy on a regular basis in the mountains and have on occasion cheated a bit and gone over the rated hitch capacity for short distance out of necessity and the ML didn't notice the difference.As a bonus you will get better mileage both solo and towing.

lkchris

NO

FunfDreisig

Thanks for the info on towing with a ML diesel.

I test drove an ML320 BlueTec the other day and was very pleased with the overall "ummff" particularly above 1,500 rpm after the turbo(s) really kicked in But I was concerned by the sluggishness when starting off. IOW the ML320 was slow to respond to slowly pressing the accelerator then seemed ot over react when I pressed a little harder. I learned how to control this after a little practice. But never really was able to forget that it was a turbo diesel. FWIW the X5 35d I test drove the next day didn't have this slugishness and I quickly forgot I was driving a 6 cyl turbo diesel instead of our old X5 V8. Of course, I'm more familiar with the X5's overall "driving style" after 9 yrs of owning one

Thanks again - Funf Dreisig

Vernl

Whether you go with BMW or MB if you tow regularly, buy the diesel, you wont be sorry...you dont realize until you have a load on behind you how much difference it makes. One last word of advice. If you go with the MB make sure it has the factory hitch installed. So many guys on here get in a world of hurt trying to go the aftermarket route.

lkchris

A lot of this is just the current "facts of life" with throttle by wire. Similar complainst arise from other brands, too, gas or diesel.

FunfDreisig

The issue I described is not a problem caused by "throttle by wire" in general. I have been driving vehicles (V6 and V8) whose throttles are controlled via wires for over 2 decades and have NOT experienced this issue. And the X5 35d (diesel), which IIRC also uses a wire to contol the throttle, does not exhibt this issue.

FWIW standing start sluggishness is a "show stopper" for us. Every time we pull out on the 2 lane Ranch Road, we need to feel confident that we will smoothly and quickly get up to speed (60mph) without a bunch of turbo lag/downshifiting. We are going to do a back to back 2nd test drive of both the ML320 BlueTec and X5 35d next week. We will be ordering the one that makes us most forget we're driving a turbo diesel before the end of the test drive.

Funf Dreisig

Vernl

Perhaps the test drive unit that had a minor problem. I have not had any such experience in 2 yrs of driving with mine...or any other problems for that matter...hopefully you will drive a different ML this time as something doesnt seem right to me. What you are describing sounds way past the realm of turbo lag or drive by wire issues.

roadrutz

I'm betting you'll go with the X5. That twin-turbo diesel engine is a world beater. It has one small turbo that spools up very quickly, thus almost eliminating turbo lag, and a larger turbo that kicks in at mid RPMs to give continuing thrust. Mercedes still uses the traditional approach. Both require periodic urea replenishment.

Frankly, other differences between the X5 and the ML are almost nil except for the suspension. The X5 goes round corners faster and the ML is more comfortable. But be aware that when you are not towing, you will miss the X5's superior power and cornering ability. You'll save money, true, but by going from a V8 to a 6-cylinder diesel you'll be moving from a driver's vehicle to an appliance.

FunfDreisig

Thanks for the personal experience feed back.

We plan on a 2nd longer test drive next week. Hopefully our salesman can arrange for a different ML320 BlueTec to eliminate the possibility that this was only an issue in this particular vehicle.

Funf Dreisig

FunfDreisig

If it were MY vehicle I would have already ordered the X5 35d BUT... this is primarily my wife's vehilcle. And she needs to feel completely comfortable with the decision. She doesn't like the fact that the current X5 is larger, more complex and maybe even less reliable than her 'old' X5. Frankly, I'm concerned about these issues too. So we are going to do our homework.

FWIW we only buy a new vehicle roughly once a decade. And tend to keep them for 20+ years. So getting this right is worth a little extra time/effort.

Funf Dreisig

sunny_j

is there a way to make the Bluetec not so sluggish off the line?

CGMKCM

A tuning box helps quite a bit (extra HP and torque), but a diesel needs turbo boost to make power. Off the line it takes a second or two to start developing boost.

sunny_j

if i install the Kleemann KD Box will it eliminate the lag from a dead stop?

dante&david

Roadrutz is right in almost everything is writing!

For me, if the new X5 (beautiful exteriorly except for the front-low which is a replica from 100 yrs) would not have the same trist dashboard, especially the red light base on the instrument cluster and dashbord, and the rigidness which makes it very uncomfortable in long trips (I have two frinds at 40-s with X5 that have backpains), and if it was not so high and so long...and if I would never hear - as I oftenly do - for BMW X5 transmission problems, even replacements (a friend twice)...and if the mechanics of BMW X5 especially in the front axle would not make the regular noice that they start doing after a while, especially if you drive some more on off-road or remote roads....I believe for the rest I would choose the new X5 of course diesel......

But this is life - there exists nothing perfect 100%

If I could be able I would put together:

The design of the back of the BMW X5, the sides of a ML, the front of a Auqi Q7, the mechanics that give the grip and road stability of Porsche Cayenne/VW Touareg, the engine of AUDI/BMW diesel, the interior of AUDI Q5, the new transmission of Porsche, the comfort of a ML/VW TOUAREG, the infotainment of AUDI, the reliability of the MBENZ in general, the sportivity of base AUDI/BMW, the simplicity of the MBENZ, the perfect SUV size of the ML, and make with those all a supercar!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I can't, so I made a compromise and choose the ML 320 CDI for the majority of positive performances that correspond to me and my family needs...

CGMKCM

I don't have the Kleeman Box, but all of these boxes turn up the fuel pressure and volume. This in turn adds turbo boost. Is it 100% no lag, no but it is a huge improvement over stock.
My GL does quite well off the line (compared to stock). We previously had a 05 Lincoln Aviator that had a 300 HP engine and weighed at least 1000 lbs less, the GL would lose in a 1/4 mile but not by much.
With the box, the boost kicks in early and hard compared to stock. I would guess that the tuner improved my 0-60 times by at least a second.
On the open road at 70 we get between 26 and 27 MPGs, a couple MPs better than stock. Several companies make these boxes including Bully Dog, TS Performance, Kleeman. Kleeman is sold by some MB dealers and may be warranty safe (Not sure if MBUSA approves or not) All plug into the fuel rail on the passenger side rear of the engine, it is easy to install and easy to remove, it will not leave a trace on the vehicles computer. I bought mine from a German company called power box that sells on Ebay. I had previously bought one of there boxes for a 01 VW TDI and am very impressed with there products. It is less than half the cost of some other tuning boxes.

roadrutz

Most of the 'chip' solutions just increase turbo boost and richen the mixture to compensate, so you'll only notice any difference at full boost. I don't see how they could affect off-the-line performance.

On their new turbo gasoline engines, BMW do some very clever things to reduce turbo lag. One trick is to mount the turbos extremely close to the exhaust valves and then ignite the mixture late when you hit the gas, which means that the mixture is still burning and expanding when it hits the turbo. Pow, instant boost! They can't do this on the diesels, of course, because they have no control over when the fuel ignites. One advantage of coming to the turbo table late, I suppose -- you get to think outside the box.

CGMKCM

I guess I made the whole thing up and the box was a complete waste of money. Do you have a tuning box?

On a variable vane turbo boost comes on fairly quickly and the turbo vanes change pitch as the engine RPMs increase. The tuning box increases fuel a crossed the entire RPM range which in turn increases boost. It does not take full boost to feel the affects. If you have driven a diesel with either a well engineered chip or box you would be able to see quite clearly how they can and do increase acceleration off of the line.
The question was how can you make the ML 320 not be as slugish off the line, your answer seems to be buy a BMW.
You sound like a BMW Cheerleader.