am1996

We've got an '08 ML350 with 33K miles that will be coming off the original 4/50K warranty in a couple of months, so I just started to make inquiries into extended warranty prices.

We've owned plenty of luxury cars in the past and have never purchased an extended warranty since it's never made financial sense to do so. At the same time, I am not the type to categorically rule something out without looking at the particulars, so I thought I'd get some quotes. In our case, the lowest quote on a genuine Mercedes 7 year/75K mile warranty that I've received so far is $3,045 (the list price is about $4,100).

Interestingly, all the good 3rd party warranties have been more expensive. For instance, the Ford exclusionary warranty from Michael Case (the same place that used to sell the Chrysler warranties that covered our MB's at a competitive price until Chrysler stopped the practice) is about $3,200 for the same term. Other exclusionary 3rd party warranty quotes have been even higher. Have any of you come across the same phenomena?

I would also appreciate those of you whose ML's are no longer under the original 4/50K coverage posting about the issues that you've run into and the cost thereof. Our ML does have PII with a few other toys (cd changer, heated seats, ipod connector, etc...) but when I was buying it, I intentionally stayed away from '06's, which I knew are rather trouble prone as is common for the first year of a major re-design. I also intentionally stayed away from airmatic suspensions, which are also fairly trouble prone and rather expensive to repair. Hence, the reason that I am not at all certain whether spending $3,045 for a 7year/75K mile Mercedes warranty would be a good investment here.

Oh, and things like a "peace of mind" provided by ELW's don't really factor into my decision either way. It's purely financial -- if it's fairly likely that the warranty will pay for itself, we'll buy it. If it's 50-50 or so, we won't.

am1996

By the way, I also wanted to mention something about the difference between the CPO extended warranties and regular Mercedes extended warranties that may be helpful to some people. I've got copies of both contracts (our ML was not a CPO but the dealer initially made a mistake and sent us the CPO ELW to review) and have compared them side by side.

The Mercedes CPO warranty and the extended warranty that you can buy with it is NOT an exclusionary coverage contract (exclusionary coverage is also typically referred to as "bumper to bumper"). This means that if a part is not listed, it is not covered. On the other hand, the regular Mercedes ELW that you can add to your original factory warranty IS an exclusionary coverage contract. So far, the only thing that I've noticed that's excluded from the non-CPO ELW that's included in the original 4/50K coverage is batteries and appearance items.

This is not to say that the CPO and CPO-ELW coverage is bad. It is to say, however, that it is WAY less comprehensive than the non-CPO ELW, which I thought was rather surprising. What's even more surprising, at least to me, as that if you are buying your car as a CPO, you do not have the option of adding the much more comprehensive non-CPO ELW to it.

Becks Imports

When you say you got a quote on the MB warranty for $3K, I assume that 7/75K term is from the original in-service date of your car? Meaning, 7 years from the time it was originally put on the road when new, and expiring whrn your odometer reads 75K, so another 42K miles from now?

If not, and it's actually 7 years from today, or an additional 75K miles on top of your current 33K, and it's exclusionary, buy it and stop shopping. You'll never do better than that from a good company that will allow you to go to MB dealer for repairs.

If it is from original in-service date, then I can get you into a 4 year (from today, so expiring 5/2015) or 50K miles (additional, so expiring when your odometer reads 83K) exclusionary warranty from a very good company for $2783.

Finally, don't be so quick to write off peace-of-mind protection. If a warranty costs you $3K, you file $1200 in claims during the term of 4 years, it therefore actually cost you $1800. Divided by 4, that's $450 per year to protect against a major failure like engine or trans. That's not too bad. Yes, it would be nice if all our bets paid off at 50% or better, but I'm not angry a hurricane doesn't blow my house down while I pay for hurricane insurance. There is SOME value to peace of mind to protect against a major problem. The question is how much is that worth?

To me, the math for your car is roughly:

4 years of exclusionary - $3K

Claims filed in 4 year - $2K (probably more, but being conservative)

Cost for plan for 4 years - $1K, or $250 per year for catastrophic protection

Not a bad deal, especially since if you go to Benz dealer for repairs, in 4 years on the way to 80K+ miles on an ML, it's VERY VERY likely you will exceed $3K in claims. And that's without any major failures. If a trans goes or you have any internal engine issues, you'll blow right past $3K in repairs.

Bruce

Becks Imports

Correct....CPO is an inclusionary (also known as named component) warranty. Their ELW is exclusionary (also known as bumper to bumper but some people use that term for other plan levels that they should not).

CPO is a good inclusionary, covering about 65-70% of the things you'd want covered on your car. But that still pales in comparison to an exclusionary, which tops 90%.

Bruce

am1996

That's correct. That's how MB quotes it.

I agree and that would be a steal.

Would this be NIC or Fidelity? I've seen your previous posts regarding them. I've only done fairly limited research into both but from what I've seen, they are large and have a decent reputation. Just like all third party warranty companies, however, they've also had their share of problems and complaints.

Your quote helps, thanks. With your quote, the MB coverage is $262 more and ends 8K miles or about 6 months earlier. With such a relatively small difference, the MB coverage would make more sense.

I am also not at all sold on an extended coverage for our SUV. We'd have to spend over $1K/year in repairs for it to make sense. Considering the fact that it's an '08 (not the trouble prone '06), has low mileage and doesn't have the trouble prone airmatic suspension, I don't know if this is likely. Hence, the reason that I would certainly appreciate seeing other ML owners post their experiences here.

From the research that I've done, it is HIGHLY unlikely that an '08 ML350 will run into an engine or a transmission problem before 75K mile or so that was not otherwise addressed during the term of the original warranty. In the exceedingly unlikely event that it does happen, I think that there's a good chance that I'd be able to get MB to share in some of the expenses.

If we get REALLY unlikely and it does happen and MB categorically refuses to pay a portion, we'll be quite upset but it won't ruin us financially. So, $450/year to protect against engine and transmission failure to about 75K miles would not be a prudent use of my money.

I am not trying to argue, but this isn't an apples to apples comparison. I insure against things like a hurricane blowing my house down because it can wipe me out or at least have a material impact on my finances. When it comes to an extended warranty, very significant repair bills would hurt but wouldn't be in the vicinity of having a material impact on my finances. Hence, the reason that my decision to buy or not to buy an extended warranty is purely financial, meaning that all that I am really considering is the likelihood that the cost of the repairs will exceed the warranty costs.

This is exactly what I am trying to determine. I've got plenty of highly competent MB independent stations around and am not the type to only use the dealer for repairs. At the same time, I've got an MB dealer right next door, so it's very convenient to do so.

What are some of the repairs that an '08 ML350 with 33K miles and without airmatic is likely to have before 80K miles? The oxygen sensor is one of them but MB has extended the warranty to 10 years/120K miles on those.

am1996

Isn't it odd that MB wouldn't let CPO owners purchase exclusionary coverage while non-CPO owners like myself (I am the 2nd owner and originally purchased the car about a year ago with 22K miles; I did not buy it from an MB dealer) can buy exclusionary coverage from MB? I am certainly not complaining but this seems like an odd business model.

Becks Imports

If you can figure out all the rules, let me know! I have no idea why it works that way.

Bruce

Becks Imports

As far as coverage, it's from NAC. They are a Tier I company, paying dealer labor and part prices. I think you can find complaints about everyone on the internet, including MB themselves denying warranty claims. The internet is just a giant complaint forum I think.

But they are good and pay claims like they are supposed to.

Six months and 8K miles might not seem like a big difference, unless you have a problem 4 months after the MB warranty expires. But who knows, I can't predict the future.

I don't agree with assigning zero value to peace of mind, although yes my comparison was extreme. Odds are low of a major problem, sure, but they are not zero. So it's worth something.

Take a look at you car's VMI at your Benz dealer. Look at all the times it's been in to the Benz dealer since new for warranty claims or repairs that were not routine maintenance. Then understand that that's from 0 to 33K mles.......33K to 80K miles will be very different obviously as the car is much older in terms of mileage.

$1K per year is so easy to do at the Benz dealer it's almost a given. I don't see how you can 'lose' with a $3K 4 year warranty. And I don't see how that math works...it's $3K for 4 years from NAC, actually less, $2800. That's $700 per year. You can do that in claims with your eyes closed with a Mercedes between 33K and 83K miles.

Bruce

am1996

Our 4 year/50K warranty won't be expiring for a few months. So, if I were to purchase the NAC coverage now, I'd be adding about 3.5 years to the original coverage up to 83K miles. That makes it about $800/year and is a 3rd party coverage. The genuine MB coverage is about $1,000/year. Given this relatively small price difference, the MB coverage makes more sense.

Now, if the 3rd party coverage was from another vehicle manufacturer with an established track record of paying claims, such as Chrysler (there have been so many posts in the past praising Chrysler's ELW coverage of MB's), and was 20% cheaper, then the 3rd party coverage would make way more sense. Alternatively, if the NAC coverage was significantly cheaper, then it would make more sense to consider it.

Regardless, when you say that "you can do that in claims with your eyes closed with a Mercedes between 33K and 83K miles" do you have some specific repairs in mind that are common for the ML's? Again, not trying to be confrontational in any way, but while this is our first MB, I have plenty of experience with BMW's. Hence, the reason that I am used to laughing when I hear general statements about how BMW's are so expensive to repair and maintain, as it all depends on the model -- with mine, the reliability and repair costs have actually been about the same or just slightly higher than what can be expected from a non-luxury Japanese vehicle.

Consequently, the reason that I am asking whether you are expressing your general thoughts about MB's or whether you are aware of some specific concerns or specific weak points associated with ML's (non-'06's) without airmatics prior to 75K-80K miles.

Becks Imports

I can't speak to a 2008 ML350 specifically, owners are better equipped to do that. But with over 1000 MB's under various plans, I have a general sense of problems and claims.

Even without airmatic, with P2 and all the electronics, it's just so easy to rack up large claims because in many cases you have to buy new parts. But common stuff on the 3.5 is oil pan seal, VCG, coil pack(s), A/C compressor, etc. Just those alone can be $2000+ at Benz.

Fidelity, NAC, Zurich, EasyCare, and others all have excellent claims paying reputations, in many caese above those of the manufacturer extended plans. In fact I have a JD Power survey showing Fidelity #1, NAC #7, and Hondacare and other mfr plansbelow that. Chrysler was good, yes, but they realized they were getting killed on Euro cars so wiped them out from eligibility.

You're like me, you want it both ways. NAC is an excellent company, and if you wait a few months at $700/yr, it's 30% less expensive than the MB plan. You are willing to pay 30% premium for MB plan, but don't want to pay anything for peace of mind?

The downside is if you do not wind up keeping the car for the term, then you might not make out as well. But in my rough rule of thumb, if you can get exclusionary coverage from a good company for a high-end Euro car for $1k per year, give or take, it's worth it. The odds are against, at least in my experience, doing less than an average of $1K per year in repairs on an out of warranty MB with over 40K miles.

Bruce

am1996

Of course. At the same time, and I am saying this with the utmost respect, this is not all that helpful when reliability and repair costs can vary so widely model to model and year to year. With BMW's, for instance, you'd never compare the reliability and repair costs of the 3 series (especially the non-turbo's) to the reliability and repair costs of the 7 series. The former are generally quite reliable and have fairly predictable and rather reasonable repair costs. The latter, on the other hand, have always been at the bottom of all the reliability ratings and have pretty exorbitant repair costs.

I would imagine that the same is true for MB's. You just can't compare the repair costs of any of the AMG models to the non-AMG ones. If you've got an '06 or an early '07 ML350, there's a significant chance that you'll be affected by a balance shaft failure (the repair cost of which, by the way, will probably be subsidized by MB). Not so with later models. If you've got an airmatic, there's a significant chance that it'll need some very costly repairs. Not so if you have a non-airmatic model that uses traditional springs.

In other words, in my humble opinion, knowing the average reliability and repair costs associated with a particular brand hardly tells you anything about the reliability and repair costs associated with a specific year, model and options.

Thanks, I'll research those. Are a/c compressor failures common on the ML's with less than 75K-80K miles? Really? Not questioning your words as I don't know one way or the other, but I haven't heard of a compressor failure on a car with less than 100K miles in well over a dozen years.

When you say "coil pack," are you referring to the evaporator coil or the ignition coil? If it's the latter, isn't it a relatively minor repair?

am1996

If I wait a few months, the mileage will be higher, so the cost of the plan will go up as well, so I suspect that the annual cost will still end up being about $800/year.

Well, you are the one who has done a good job making a case for paying for peace of mind

On a more serious note, a 20% premium for Mercedes' exclusionary warranty vs. that provided by a 3rd party that's not a manufacturer like Chrysler makes for a pretty easy decision (it doesn't necessarily mean that I'll end up buying ANY extended warranty, as I am still gathering information on the reliability and repair costs). I have no interest in paying for an extended warranty only to then be forced to waste hours fighting over claim denials or end up with the company going out of business. With MB's exclusionary warranty (I wouldn't be interested in the non-exclusionary CPO-ELW), I know that MB will pay for the repairs and the only question is whether the claims will justify the costs. When the difference between the two is only 20%, the decision is very easy.

am1996

What's VCG? Valve cover gasket? I am not familiar with MB's valve cover gaskets but on BMW's and every other car I've ever heard of they don't start leaking until about 90K-100K miles. Even then, it's not a big deal at all, as it's not a safety/drivability issue and is very inexpensive to fix. It's probably a $30-$50 part and you'll probably pay for an hour worth of work, plus a little something to pressure wash the engine to wash the leaked oil off it.

On BMW's, it's pretty common to replace valve cover gaskets at the same time that you replace spark plugs at 100K miles, as you save some money on labor by doing both at the same time.

B-tsai

AM1996
May I ask where you got the quote from?
I got a quote for over $8k. (08 ML550 w less miles than yours)

Cheers and thanks!

am1996

To be honest, I'd rather not give the dealer free advertising particularly before I've finalized the transaction and the price... if I decide to go for it, that is.

The quote that you received sounds like a list price. I tell the dealers up front that I am calling around for competitive quotes, so I'm not particularly interested in receiving list price quotes.

Becks Imports

Sounds like you are familiar with VCG's but not MB dealer repair prices! Good luck getting a VCG changed at an MB dealer for $150.

On the 3.5 motor, they start to leak often around 55K-60K miles....but severity of leak is dependent on a lot of other factors. I see some claims (and have bought some with leaking VCGs) at 40K, and some go to 90K, but I'd still estimate 60K as average.

am1996

I am not at all familiar with MB dealer repair prices. At the same time, I am very familiar with BMW dealer and independent repair prices. Prior to buying our MB, I compared BMW vs. MB service and maintenance costs and generally found them to be comparable (MB maintenance costs tend to be somewhat lower, actually, as non-AMG's are not as performance oriented as BMW's and require less maintenance).

Judging by the BMW dealer prices, replacing your valve cover gasket by itself (meaning without spark plugs) would probably be quoted as $300-$350 at a dealership and about $200 at an independent. This is also as low tech of a service as it gets, as you don't need nor can you use any expensive diagnostic equipment, fancy tools, etc... Hence, this just isn't one of those things that needs to be performed or diagnosed by your dealer and is very easy to save money on at an independent.

am1996

Original poster here. Just to update this thread, we've decided not to purchase an extended warranty. As I mentioned above, things like a "peace of mind" provided by ELW's don't really factor into my decision either way. It's purely financial -- if it's fairly likely that the warranty will pay for itself, we'll buy it. If it's 50-50 or so, we won't.

In this case, it appears that the odds are pretty slim that we'll come out ahead by spending $3K on a 7 year/75,000 miles Mercedes ELW, as that would require our repair costs to exceed $1K/year. Hence, there's no reason for us to buy it.