ujtruck

it is my 1st Benz - I am a semi backyard mechanic


I received this 2010 - ML350 BlueTec , 10600 KM as a free gift -


* however no starter click or crank (the owner being advice by their MB Dealer engine is seized, buy a new one or need 25-30k to replace the engine)


* I tried 27MM socket on balancer pulley with breaker bar and cheater pipe, clockwise or anti-clock wise but... no go.


* is it hard to turn this motor by hand? is there any lock or some security feature in my way?


Now I'm thinking, remove starter motor and see if I can get engine to move.


this SUV is in excellent condition, I really hate to hand over to rack yard.


I removed oil cap and filter, yes its dark black some gooppy sludge, I can see how engine come to dead halt. again I would like to put some of my energy to free this beast,


My wallet is pretty much on low side, my energy level is high, so I am willing to work.


and where can I find a shop manual pdf for this?


need good instructions, advice from fine people just like You!


Thank you in Advance!


Joe

texasflysuper

Sounds like a score if you can bring it back to life. What year is it?

Keep us posted on progress

N_Jay

BLACK oil is normal on these engines, but if the oil is "goopy", they either used the wrong oil or went way too long between changes.


If the engine is seized, assume you need a new short block (or whole engine) of are going to have to tear that one down and rebuild.
Start here (car-part.com), or here (copart.com) and ebay and maybe you will get lucky.

ujtruck

Ohh I forgot; Year is 2010, inside and body paint looking like brand spanking new!



now anyone here got a electrical diagram, at least fuse box diagram? please.


anything will help

Thanks

ujtruck

OK today:
Battery fully charged, removed serpentine belt
put a socket on crank pulley bolt with breaker bar and cheater pipe, clockwise, Yes its Truning.. hoo ho - I said Thanks GOD.

but no starter motor, no engine crank, not even stater solenoid click, now need to troubleshoot electrical side

can someone post a starter electrical circuit diagram please, and i want to jump start the starter motor from fuse/relay box, that way i know my ECU is gone or not.

thanks

texasflysuper

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...4-5nov2012.pdf


Fuse chart PDFs. Not exact, but will give you general fuse locations. It's accurate enough for me to check out a few things on our 2010 ML.

ujtruck

texasflysuper thank you, i will try and update here

ujtruck

apply 12v + to Fuse 122 and starter relay under engine compartment but no starter solenoid clicking

turning ignition key to start position no starter click either.

now I'm thinking starter is bad and must come out for more testing, if starter is good, I am heading EIS keys, computer etc

please can i have some input from you master technicians ?

framer

could be a long shot that starter is stuck out. but sounds like engine is seized if you cant turn motor from crank.

ujtruck

I can turn engine by hand, so its not seized, do you have starter wiring
diagram?

also today I got the MB diagnostic report from previous owner -
SDS Ran Test - OK
DAuth EZ Test ALL - OK
F58 Fuse Check ALL - OK
F58 Relay Check ALL - OK
Startin Circuit 50 ON ?
Starter By Pass Test - Failed

so its looks like ECU, TCU, BCM all OK, except some big time electrical short.

Now why Circuit 50 ON ??? I think starter solenoid is short to ground or something

Of course starter by pass test going to fail, did it my self, all I saw was fireworks.

Need some electrical manual, I am going to get this car started.

framer

how can you turn motor by and now? in your first post you said you used a breaker bar and it wouldnt budge.

can you put 12v+ on the solenoid right on the starter?

ujtruck

Thanks you Framer

Ok if you read 5th post, I managed to free the Engine, and that is a huge+

Now I don't know where the starter is, I don't think its a easy access item. also I am working so have to wait till Saturday

at this point when i turn ignition to RUN position starter relay is already activated, which is wrong is should active when key is on START position. so something is shorting.

Now I have to remember, I am trying to fix a car MB-Dealer couldn't fix, even with all the tools, shop, STAR diagnostic system.

I am here with some hand tools on the Driveway.

OUZO Power

Your not that far from me. When you get this puppy up and running I want to come see it. I hope you do. Will be watching this thread with interest.

N_Jay

The starter is controlled by the computer, not the switch directly, so given something in that circuit has failed anything is possible.

ujtruck

N_Jay, I think so too.,
I already signup on Alldata but electrical diagrams are sucks, very dran hard to read and understand.

some diagrams are missing.

ujtruck

Anytime

ujtruck

Applied +12v to Starter Relay Pin 87, jumper wire got red hot can't touch it, so this mean Starter solenoid or motor short to Ground right?

Now how do i get that starter out any easy instructions ?

More work ahead:
also I found I don't have power on Circuit 15 which supply power to starter relay pin 30, and Circuit 15 activated by EIS switch, and CDI/ECU must supply Ground voltage to Starter relay pin 86 <-- if that don't work I have to fix DAS,

Man.....looks like I'm holding a Tiger's Tail...

Please Engineers / Technicians Please Welcome!!! to Help Me

framer

if it were me, i'd disconnect solenoid wires from starter and leave just the main positive cable connected. then apply 24 jumper to the solenoid that i assume is on the starter.
and if you ever use jumpers, wire a fuse into it so that it goes before you do too much damage.

ujtruck

Took all under body splash guards out
Oil leaked on back of the engine block top to bottom, starter motor also covered with some oil (yes oil is dark black)

Now I think we all know what has happened, oil possibly create that electrical short in starter motor windings / solenoid windings, hence overload circuit 15 and kill while you are driving.... so if you have oil leak please get it fix.

Managed to loosen lower starter bolt, but its hard to get to top one

Now question is even if i remove both bolts how do i take starter out, and there are no space to work, starter can not, and will not come out unless i remove some major components like steering box, sub frame assembly etc?

any help ?

Thanks in Advance.

ujtruck

OK both starter bolts are out, starter is loose and hanging, but can't get it out or access power wire terminals

framer

i'm going to try and say this in the nicest way possible. from what you wrote, you dont have much knowledge of cars.
oil does not conduct electricity. oil on the starter wont short it.

and the starter is only on when you start the car. it does nothing while the engine is on. it wont "kill" your engine.

what you need to do is see if you get voltage at the solenoid on the starter, when the key is turned all the way to the right in the starter engage position.
likewise you should check if you have 24v all the time on the main 24v wire going to the starter.

ujtruck

Framer you are correct, I don't have Benz knowledge, to check 12V I must access those wires, but at the moment i can't reach or take the starter out due to no space.

however I am on my way to remove engine mounts to see if I can jack-up the engine without braking any other components, If not I am planing to cut or remove part of the fender, so that i can get my hand in there.

I already feed power to starter by jumping starter relay, but starter solenoid not even click, it just dead short. its may be not oil, but it short to ground.

Now where do I check for 24 volts, according to my little brain whole Car is 12V ?

may be we both on the same boat

Anyhow I thank you very much, at least you giving me something to deal with.

framer

Sorry. I meant 12v. I work on cnc machines for a living, and am used to 24v. Lol

I've seen a lot of starters but never one a mercedes diesel. It should be the same setup as most other cars. There should be a solenoid on the starter. See if you can apply +12v to it. Though i would not do it while it is hanging loose. It will move and jerk if it does turn on. Plus the starter's shell is the negative ground and needs to make contact with the engine block.

Euler

Starter motors are nearly a dead short when they are operating correctly. They are powerful DC motors and are the reason that cars have large batteries and giant wires to the starter.

ujtruck

OK finally Starter Motor is Out

I have extra 12V battery which came from a Truck, now attached jumper(emergency boost) cables Black - to starter body, then +positive to solenoid actuator terminal no click, nothing its get little hot, of course it spark

then touch large positive+ wire on solenoid terminal going main starter motor winding side. no go, no turn, but spark (chrrrrrrrrrrrssss, chrrrrrrrsss) lol

so it is time to buy a new starter, before i do that i would like to check Ohms on those coils, do you have them?