caf

This is actually the second time. About 6 months ago, the car started shifting a little hard. I called the dealership and told them I would drop it by the next morning. As I took off the next morning the ML was shifting badly and after one block the transmission light glowed on the dash. I turned around and drove slowly home, noticed a fluid leak under the vehicle. I called the dealership back and told them I needed it flatbedded, which they did.

They told me the front transmission pump seal had failed. They repaired and everything seemed OK until yesterday: pretty much the same sequence of events all over again, including a puddle of liquid underneath the ML this morning.

I thought the first episode was probably a seal which was defective or not well seated at the factory; these things don't typically fail at 10K miles. If this turns out to be the same seal, I'm going to be very suspicious that just a new seal will fix it. A more likely explanation is that the surfaces aren't mating properly and that's why the seal if failing, causing the transmission fluid to leak out.

I'll provide an update when I know more; I like to document major stuff like this in case anybody else encounters the same.

Cyber GS

Good luck, I hope everything works out for you. Keep us posted.

shortspark

What year ML is this? Gas or diesel?

caf

2012 Bluetec. Just talked to the dealer service department for the second time, but no word yet on whether it's the same fault as last time. There was definitely a considerable volume of fluid on the floor this morning though.

jean7of9

The same thing happened to my W164 at 50k KM (31k Miles), but 6 months after the expiry of the 4 Year Warranty. $760 to repair the seal. The car was parked for days at the garage when the seal broke.

cookstar

I had the same oil leak but on an 05 ML after less than 24 hours after purchase and about 12 miles on it... There was a problem with a seal as well, cant remember exactly what.

caf

Service advisor says it's the same leak as before: front transmission pump seal. They seem to agree that with two failures, they need to do more than just replace the seal, but it's up to MB to decide what to do for the final fix. They said MB reports a similar incident in New Jersey where they fixed the problem by replacing the front transmission pump, but they haven't given my dealer the final plan yet.

In the meantime, driving a GLK.

katiesdad7

I find it ironic that the dealer cannot determine the proper repair. Why does MB need to get involved? Aren't their dealers able to diagnose troubles? Or don't they trust them?

Willie T

HMMMM sounds a bit like pre-authorization in the healthcare industry......

caf

Yes, it does!

Actually it makes some sense. If MB has seen a relatively rare problem several times, they may have some experience with what solution resulted in the best long term fix, while the dealer may have never seen the problem before.

caf

I think we have an answer...

My service advisors did a very good job of keeping me apprised of the situation. Friday they told me that, in conjunction with MB, they had scrutinized the front transmission pump where the two seal failures had occurred.

Turns out that a small vent hole was missing internally from my pump; apparently the hole had not been drilled during manufacture of the pump. This meant that the transmission fluid did not drain properly and eventually led to an overpressure situation and seal failure.

I think this makes sense and I appreciate the fact that they didn't just slap in a few parts without figuring out the actual cause of the failure.

I had expressed some concern about the longevity of the transmission, which had dumped it's fluid twice. Both times the vehicle was shut down quickly and flatbedded to the dealer, so hopefully that prevented any damage. The lead service advisor also assures me that the transmission protects itself well: if fluid pressure drops it locks itself into gear and doesn't shift, which protects the parts.

Regardless, the dealer offered me an extended 6 year, 120K warranty on the whole vehicle, including transmission, at no charge. I thought this was a nice gesture and I'm pleased with the outcome so far. The vehicle won't actually be finished until later this week with the typical holiday delays, so I'll check things out carefully once it's returned.

katiesdad7

Its nice to see that your dealer did what they are required to do and that is troubleshoot a mechanical failure. My dealer would not do this. They would only do what MB said they could do. And that would be very little without a fault code. I also expressed concerns about the longevity of the transmission since I had the bucking problem. Typical to MB they said no damage was being done. But it doesn't matter in my case since they are buying back my ML anyway. But As it gets more miles I can feel the transmission starting to do things it never did before. Hopefully they will pick it up before it totally falls out of the vehicle.

caf

katiesdad,
I think I remember seeing your posts about your transmission trouble. It's true that many dealerships and manufacturers rely too much on "fault codes" these days, when oftentimes a hands-on autopsy of the parts involved in a failure provide much more information.

katiesdad7

I remember when I was in college back in the 80's working on my Electronics degree that we were taught to troubleshoot to the component level even though replacing the circuit board would also work. Its the difference between guessing and actually figuring out what went wrong.

THis was my first, and last MB. When I first took it to the dealer for the hesitation problem it was very evident. Easily reproduced and experienced. However, the dealer did not even put the car up on the lift. Everything was done by hooking up to the computer. They didn't even check to see if it had fluid in the transmission! They said that the computer said everything was OK. I asked them to explain to me how they can see it buck down the street and tell me everything is OK. Their answer to me was that MB will not pay to fix anything without a fault code. I suggested that maybe the computer is the problem. But that was like talking to the wall.

I also have a 2011 and 2010 Prius. I have never seen on their repair orders that the computer said there was no problem. Neither does my Nissan dealer. Maybe its just MY dealer. Either way MB shot themselves in the foot by not fixing my vehicle and now the court has told them they have a lemon and are being force to repurchase my vehicle.

I will never again buy a MB. As a sign in one of my dealerships once read. "Sales sells the first, Service sells the rest". My dealers service and MB's stance of not listening to the consumer has sealed their fate for me.

I wonder how the technicians feel about NOT being able to get in and root around and do some troubleshooting. My guess is that most of them would rather get into it and figure out what is wrong and fix it. But since MB won't pay for them to do that they just put their hands up. I foresee that in the future cars will not even have to be hooked up to the computer. They will communicate with the Manufacturer via WiFi and a visit to the dealer will not be necessary.

I can see it now. A customer calling in to get a road service for a flat tier and the dispatcher saying that according to the computer all the tires are properly inflated and no road service will be dispatched. Even though you can see the tire is flat. :-)

Merry Christmas.....

GregW / Oregon

Nice to actually know what the problem was. Sounds like a reasonable outcome.

jean7of9

Kudos to your Dealer for his initiative.

Cyber GS

I can truly appreciate how you feel because I just recently had my 2011 ML bought back by MB for numerous issues that I had explained on the W164 forum, the trans hesitation being one of the problems. MB called it a substitution of collateral and put me into a 2012 ML.

Depending on how realiable the 2012 is will determine if I ever purchase another MB product in the future.

katiesdad7

I tried to get them to do that but they stood fast saying nothing was wrong. I now believe that they put 100% of their decision on what the dealer told them. I just wanted a car that worked. I wanted to stay with MB.

I wonder if the dealer has any fallout from loosing the case based on what they said?

Cyber GS

That would be interesting to know.

In my case the dealer was great from the Service Department right to the the GM of the dealership.

Fortunately for me the GM pushed his contacts at MBUSA to do the right thing after MBUSA initially told me there was nothing wrong with the ML. BTW, MBUSA said there was nothing wrong even after their local MB Rep agreed with me and the dealer that the ML should be bought back.

My first letter to MB was 9 pages which not only documented the service performed but also the date, time and any conversation that I had with MBUSA or my dealer going back to the day after delivery.

What I found interesting is that when I asked the MBUSA customer care rep for his email info so I could send him my letter he told me it wasn't necessary. He said they will go by my service records and what the dealer tells them and that's it. I disagreed and told him that they need to review more than just service records to fully understand what an MB customer has gone through for 2 years.

He then reluctantly gave me his contact info and I not only sent my letter to him but I sent it to the GM and Service Director of my dealership. At that point I could care less if MB read the letter or not I just wanted it documented that I sent a letter to MBUSA in case I had to go the legal route at a later date.

I honestly got the impression that MBUSA could care less what I had to say, and believe it or not, the day after I sent my first letter I began drafting my second letter because I knew MBUSA was going to reject my first request. Which they did.

So my second letter had a 'little more bite" to it then the first and I threaten with legal action.

I do believe that if my dealer didn't back me I would have had to have taken the same legal route that you did. And if that was the case I would have also, as you did requested a full refund and not another ML.

Good luck with your next vehicle.



OP, sorry for "Hi-Jacking" your post

katiesdad7

At least why did the right thing in your case. I understand they purchased quite a few back for similar issues. I was just the unlucky one. :-)