STRADALEF1

Nanook - You were right, looks like the Scorpion "Winter" is replacing "Ice & Snow". Found this:

A project started from scratch
It was an occasion for convincing impressions of the Scorpion Winter tyre that replaces its predecessor, Scorpion Ice&Snow, and of the development on which Pirelli engineers, as confirmed by Stephen Rowe, project head for the SUV platform, “started again from zero with the innovations that had been introduced to all the components, tread pattern, compounds and structure”. In effect, the comparative data represented by the customary web chart (and the relevant 255/55 R18 size) show a really considerable leap in performance. Moreover, the two products are separated by a decade. “For braking on snow from 50 km/h to zero, the distance has been reduced by 10%, whereas traction capacity measured between 10 and 40 km/h has increased by 9%; for dry (from 100 km/h to 0) and wet braking (from 80 km/h to 0), the improvement is 1.7 and 2.5 metres, respectively. Internal and external noise has also been reduced (3 db lower than its predecessor) in addition to rolling resistance that can guarantee up to 4% more fuel efficiency.” According to the plate data, dry and wet handling and control have also been significantly improved, but it is handling on snow that has benefitted the most from the development process - 13% better than the previous model’s performance. The tyre seems to be well balanced in relation to the different conditions of use and performance, from traction on corners to grip on slopes and when braking.

Sporty handling
It is the outcome” – Rowe explained – “of the specific shape of the blocks and sipes, which gives longitudinal and lateral thrust no matter which way the tyre is facing. The directional tread pattern has been optimized primarily in terms of braking, with sipes on the central rib, which also go into action when steering, and the radial orientation of the external sipes helps traction”. At the sides of the rib (with angled blocks giving it an arrow shape), even the grooves, two or four depending on the size of the tyre, have been designed to improve grip by channelling water away from the surface. The new Scorpion Winter tyre can be felt directly in the steering wheel and this gives a reassuring sensation of control. The development of the new product, which took 3 years and 300,000 km of tests carried out between -32°C at the Arctic Falls proving grounds in Sweden and 8 degrees at the Idiada circuit in Spain, was, without a doubt, aimed at offering the confidence that SUV enthusiasts are accustomed to when driving with summer tyres. The declared objective was to make more powerful models more agile and with better handling in the different conditions typical of winter. Then there is comfort: a 72 block pitch to reduce rolling noise and a rounder tyre profile to take advantage of the compound’s characteristics rather than the lateral grip of the outside edges.

A generational leap
The compound” – Rowe said – “incorporates new-generation functional polymers that are pre-treated to make them more receptive to bonding with the silica and carbon black by using special activators. We also discovered a way of using more silica (to give greater wet braking and less resistance to rolling) without compromising the dry performance given by the carbon black component”. Also making a contribution to handling is the softer and more elastic belt beneath the tread, while the improvement in smoothness is without doubt due to the reduction in tyre weight. The other characteristics include one that is shared with the PZero – inscriptions in relief on the sidewall to prevent aerodynamic interference. Not unlike the development of the Diablo Rosso II tyre created on the basis of the demanding specifications of what was then the new Ducati Diavel, in this case the Scorpion Winter (Pirelli tested five different designs before deciding on the definitive version) was based on the requirements of the new Macan, the compact SUV from Porsche. Made in Great Britain at the original equipment factory, and in Romania for the other sizes, the new tyre is being homologated by Porsche and Mercedes and will be sold in the autumn in 28 sizes from 16” to 21” and in a runflat version.
http://www.pneurama.com/en/rivista_a.../Tires?ID=6940

Nanook

There's also this option
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

Kaasmann

Tomorrow the winter tires get installed, 19" Michelin obviously on 19" rims. Purchased rims & tyres in Alberta for $3400 including installation, high speed balancing, sensors, recycle fee on new tires & storage for the 20" AMG wheels & tires. Bought the winter boots & rims from the dealer in August. I can only assume it was a good price.

Nanook

We had quite a wintry blast today with plenty of snow. The new tires performed poorly I'd say..they are just too wide (265) for a lot of loose snow on a firm surface,,pushing left and right and turning poorly and on extreme icy highway surface the vehicle behaves very nervous with the back end seeming extremely skittish just cruising at a maintained speed..
With the physical property (size) and somewhat closed tread and attitude on ice (dunno if it's the tire or vehicle) I'd give them a rating of 4 and say they were the wrong choice.
My .02 cents

2012MLBlue

Very disappointing!

Nanook

I think a lot of the issue is from the tire being as wide as they are,,,couldn't imagine with the stock size of 295...and it's not that aggressive open tread design for a lot of snow...it is what it is,,,more of a city tire

Nanook

And the traction control nanny is very aggravating...sure you can somewhat turn it off but never get the full control of the power as it still intervenes..

My Escalade with awd and Blizzack DM-v1 seemed to perform better,,,awd system with tires and ability to disable traction control by holding button = better winter driver

Benzbias

Yikes - have received a call that my tires are in -
so have appt. this Tuesday to install Michelin XiceXi3
ordered 255's (same as summer front) but -
it was suggested 245 or even 235
Mostly in-city driving but from what I sense here the narrower tire tread may have been a wiser Winter choice

No snow here as yet (Toronto, Canada)

EVOII_Racer

Damn not cool and really bad news

Were you driving 'fast' or you think the tires are just too large?
I hope my Dunlop 3D 255/40 tires Will perform better

Nanook

Narrower winters are always better...especially in deeper snow. I have that tire on my wife's MDX...good choice

Nanook

What ever makes a better winter performer takes from..

1) quiet running
2) appearance (width/profile)
3) ride

As in the better winter tire is coarser blocks (if mostly deeper snow drivin..ice finer is better), taller (larger side wall for softer ride) and narrower (better turning performance and cut through traction)

Benzbias

Agree completely. My winter tire criteria
1) noise/quiet
2) ride/comfort
3) performance
Almost bought the Michelin Alpin - but the Tire Rack survey rated X-Ice higher based upon my criteria plus there was the supposed bonus of better tread wear although after 1/2 wear - time for replacement - not really a fan of Michelin but given the top 3 this was my choice - replacing Yokohama - don't get too crazy in winter conditions enough crazies out there already!

Kaasmann

I had those 19 " tires and rims installed, they are too wide, no control at all in deep snow. I should have listened to Nanook. I'm driving in the same snow he (she) is driving in as I live probably only 20 miles (30 km) away. The rear end wants to pass the front end continually, I'm at loss as to what to do now. I still have a rear wheel drive car (the 1970 Olds), that drives better in deep snow and on Bias ply tires. I feel like I have just thrown away $3400 on some genuine MB junk.

2012MLBlue

I would consider buying those from you as 95% of my winter driving is on plowed roads and its more about icy conditions, not deep snow.

PM me if you are interested.

Nanook

Too bad...Unfortunately you have to give up appearance for performance in the white stuff..the narrower the better so you cut through rather than float

EVOII_Racer

Guys i just want to make sure i understand correctly:

265/40/20 tires are junk in deep snow right?
However, on a "normal" road with ice and snow these tires are ok?

Thanks

Nanook

I would say a narrower tire is the best winter performer for all conditions...215-225 would be my ultimate performance choice..(studded of course)

EVOII_Racer

Nanook are you getting any sort of rubbing on the front tires with the winter set up?

I bought the same rims and tire size (stock 20 amg) so i don't get it!! No spacers no nothing! It doesn't make sense to me since my inner fenders weren't modified:-(

Nanook

You're saying you have rubbing ?...none for me at all..

Kaasmann

I don't have any rubbing either, mind you my winter tires are 19" Michelin's, so that probably makes a difference. If only I had a "normal" road in my neighbourhood with only compressed snow or ice to deal with, I would probably love these new boots, but getting to that "normal" road is a real pain.

EVOII_Racer

Exactly and it doesn't make sense my tires are 255/45/20...
Maybe the sidewalls are too tall

Nanook

You should maintain a circumference of 29" more or less...what make is your tire

SEXYBEEST

i put these on a friends cayenne in aspen and they worked great for her!
Latitude X-Ice Xi2

STRADALEF1

Heard good things about those (Xi2) too. I researched it for about a month & went w/ the new Scorpion "Winter" which are an improvement across the board over their last gen. tires & first Scorpion winter tire developed for High End Performance SUVs... "Winters" are 13% better in snow vs. "Ice & Snow", better across the board in all conditions w improvement in ride comfort, it won TUV winter tire test, etc. so went w them for my ML63 (265/45 20) for freezing temps, ice, few inches of snow but these low profile tires aren't meant for deep snow......

While tire width is a consideration you shouldn't drive in snow any deeper than the height of the tire sidewalls, that rule of thumb goes for all winter tires. I have the same 265 width tire but w a 65 /sidewall height % on my other SUV and they've been going through pretty deep snow for years, 265 width isn't an issue.

I also have Nokian NO 295/30 19" (staggered rears) on my Porsche Turbo (all wheel drive, summers are 305's) that I switch to every Winter (mostly because of tire composition in below freeing temps... I dont choose to take it out in snow but if Im already out in the car & it does snow as long as long as its only an inch or so I can thread a needle w/ the car/tires.

Main point - You cant expect to drive in a foot of snow with 265/45's/ sidewalls that are only 119mm/4.6 inches tall.

Also, make sure you put on at least 50-100miles on dry pavement before using tires in the white snow.

EVO - 255/55 = sidewalls that are 114mm so actually less than the 265/45 which are 119mm tall so the rubbing shouldn't be that. Could have something to do w the width & height of of the tred on the Dunlops.

Nanook

i wish I would have gone for the same...I thought the coarser sipes would perform better in snow..
and a very odd trait with these on ice..and I don't know if it's the tire that manifests it or other but the truck especially the rear gets very nervous..twitchy..skirmish..a very scary feeling like it gonna break loose and this is simply cruising at a moderate speed on a flat surface Icy only)...I don't know if it's because I reduced the psi down to 35 from the 46 (joke) the dealer put in...or if it's because I lowered it (doubtful) or....because the unit runs such an agressive camber spec and one tire is forcing the others fighting over traction...such a wierd uncomfortable feeling..dunno