ML350 - Gas Or Diesel ????
01-12-2017, 06:51 PM
#1
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GL 450?
ML350 - Gas Or Diesel ????
Hello, been kicking around the idea of replacing my Volvo XC90 V8 with a used ML 350. Going nuts trying to decide between the gas V6 or the BlueTec V6. Have not owned a diesel before.
Currently commuting to work 20 miles each way in local traffic (45 mins).
On the weekends I drive lots of highway miles.
I also tow a 22' boat that weighs around 5,500 lbs with trailer. Considering upgrading to a 25' boat that would be around 7K total weight.
AWD is a must given that I tow and live in the snow belt.
Was leaning towards the BlueTec, but concerned about having issues and drive-ability on the commute to work.
Looking at 2012 thru 2015. Any years better or worse than others? Any must have options?
Suggestions, thoughts, comments, ideas?
Thanks in advance!
Currently commuting to work 20 miles each way in local traffic (45 mins).
On the weekends I drive lots of highway miles.
I also tow a 22' boat that weighs around 5,500 lbs with trailer. Considering upgrading to a 25' boat that would be around 7K total weight.
AWD is a must given that I tow and live in the snow belt.
Was leaning towards the BlueTec, but concerned about having issues and drive-ability on the commute to work.
Looking at 2012 thru 2015. Any years better or worse than others? Any must have options?
Suggestions, thoughts, comments, ideas?
Thanks in advance!
Last edited by John151; 01-12-2017 at 07:20 PM.
01-12-2017, 07:32 PM
#2
Member
Hello, been kicking around the idea of replacing my Volvo XC90 V8 with a used ML 350. Going nuts trying to decide between the gas V6 or the BlueTec V6. Have not owned a diesel before.
Currently commuting to work 20 miles each way in local traffic (45 mins).
On the weekends I drive lots of highway miles.
I also tow a 22' boat that weighs around 5,500 lbs with trailer. Considering upgrading to a 25' boat that would be around 7K total weight.
AWD is a must given that I tow and live in the snow belt.
Was leaning towards the BlueTec, but concerned about having issues and drive-ability on the commute to work.
Looking at 2012 thru 2015. Any years better or worse than others? Any must have options?
Suggestions, thoughts, comments, ideas?
Thanks in advance!
Currently commuting to work 20 miles each way in local traffic (45 mins).
On the weekends I drive lots of highway miles.
I also tow a 22' boat that weighs around 5,500 lbs with trailer. Considering upgrading to a 25' boat that would be around 7K total weight.
AWD is a must given that I tow and live in the snow belt.
Was leaning towards the BlueTec, but concerned about having issues and drive-ability on the commute to work.
Looking at 2012 thru 2015. Any years better or worse than others? Any must have options?
Suggestions, thoughts, comments, ideas?
Thanks in advance!
01-12-2017, 08:56 PM
#3
Super Member
ML 350
The towing capacity of the standard ML350 with the gas V6 is 7200 lbs. Not sure by the Bluetec diesel probably has a higher towing capacity, but like mentioned above they switched to a 4 cylinder diesel either in 2016 or 2017. Also there is a special link for diesels on the site, which you need to review due to some issues with the engine.
I personally own a 2015 ML 350 gas but have never towed with it. It has plenty of power even having come from an 2013 Infiniti FX37 which had a
larger engine.
I was a formal owner of 2 XC90 but both with the 3.2. They were underpowered Always wanted the V8.
One other option would be a ML550 which has a twin turbo V8 gas , 2014 was the last year they made this one. Not sure if it has a higher towing capacity but has over 400 horsepower.
Keep us posted on your decision.
I personally own a 2015 ML 350 gas but have never towed with it. It has plenty of power even having come from an 2013 Infiniti FX37 which had a
larger engine.
I was a formal owner of 2 XC90 but both with the 3.2. They were underpowered Always wanted the V8.
One other option would be a ML550 which has a twin turbo V8 gas , 2014 was the last year they made this one. Not sure if it has a higher towing capacity but has over 400 horsepower.
Keep us posted on your decision.
01-12-2017, 09:02 PM
#4
Member
01-12-2017, 09:52 PM
#5
Read my recent posts regarding my 2013 ML350 Bluetec. I'm sure there are lots of MB owners whos has much better luck regarding reliability, I think I have higher than average regarding repairs. After owning it for 1 year, it really makes me rethink about the brand and whether to lease the next time around.
The ML was "just right". Not too big, not too small, powerful enough, and pretty decent on gas. Super safe for the family, and not a mammoth of a car.
My first MB and first diesel. There is a turbo lag. Not sure if the bi-turbo completely eliminates the lag. Heard that any turbos can get tripped-up. Since youre doing lots of highway, you wont feel it as much as if you're doing heavy stop and go city traffic.
On paper, the diesel fits your bill.
Here are the down sides of it. In NYC, diesel is a premium to premium gas....about 20% more expensive. My improved mileage on diesel is about 20%. So, basically break-even, just fewer trips to the gas station. However in NJ, diesel is much cheaper then premium. I save a $1 per gallon. Almost makes sense to pay the toll to save $24.
Turbo lag noticeable especially when you stomp on the pedal to merge at street speeds.
Too many extra expensive parts that go along with a diesel. Not a mechanic here but off the top, you have the particulate filter, turbocharger, oil cooler, DEF fluid heater, regen system and NOx sensors. That's all cool when everything works, but there are known design flaws and high rates of failure. If any one of these components break, it will cost $2000 to repair each.
I really thought that given MB history, if anyone knows diesel, MB knows diesel engines. Granted, the engines may last for 500k miles and take 50k miles to break-in. However, that $15 gasket below the oil cooler, or $10 gasket by the turbo intake only lasts 40k miles. Its gonna take a technician 12hrs of labor to replace it when it fails.
If I had to do it again, the model and brand may be a good choice, but the engine type doesn't fit my lifestyle. No significant increase in fuel savings, dont pull a trailer, turbo lag in city traffic and higher engine repair costs.
btw: Towing capacity for gas and diesel is both rated the same. I guess we all can lift 50lbs over our heads and hold it there for 1 minute. The difference is how hard we grim. I wonder if the towing capacity actually is a function/ability of braking instead of acceleration. Marketing that a car can stop 7500lbs traveling 50mph in 200ft for instance isnt as sexy as RATED to pull 7500lbs. I'm rated to do 50 push-ups, but I'm not saying how long it takes, or how red my face gets. 0-60mph is also about the same.
The ML was "just right". Not too big, not too small, powerful enough, and pretty decent on gas. Super safe for the family, and not a mammoth of a car.
My first MB and first diesel. There is a turbo lag. Not sure if the bi-turbo completely eliminates the lag. Heard that any turbos can get tripped-up. Since youre doing lots of highway, you wont feel it as much as if you're doing heavy stop and go city traffic.
On paper, the diesel fits your bill.
Here are the down sides of it. In NYC, diesel is a premium to premium gas....about 20% more expensive. My improved mileage on diesel is about 20%. So, basically break-even, just fewer trips to the gas station. However in NJ, diesel is much cheaper then premium. I save a $1 per gallon. Almost makes sense to pay the toll to save $24.
Turbo lag noticeable especially when you stomp on the pedal to merge at street speeds.
Too many extra expensive parts that go along with a diesel. Not a mechanic here but off the top, you have the particulate filter, turbocharger, oil cooler, DEF fluid heater, regen system and NOx sensors. That's all cool when everything works, but there are known design flaws and high rates of failure. If any one of these components break, it will cost $2000 to repair each.
I really thought that given MB history, if anyone knows diesel, MB knows diesel engines. Granted, the engines may last for 500k miles and take 50k miles to break-in. However, that $15 gasket below the oil cooler, or $10 gasket by the turbo intake only lasts 40k miles. Its gonna take a technician 12hrs of labor to replace it when it fails.
If I had to do it again, the model and brand may be a good choice, but the engine type doesn't fit my lifestyle. No significant increase in fuel savings, dont pull a trailer, turbo lag in city traffic and higher engine repair costs.
btw: Towing capacity for gas and diesel is both rated the same. I guess we all can lift 50lbs over our heads and hold it there for 1 minute. The difference is how hard we grim. I wonder if the towing capacity actually is a function/ability of braking instead of acceleration. Marketing that a car can stop 7500lbs traveling 50mph in 200ft for instance isnt as sexy as RATED to pull 7500lbs. I'm rated to do 50 push-ups, but I'm not saying how long it takes, or how red my face gets. 0-60mph is also about the same.
Last edited by mikel212; 01-12-2017 at 10:24 PM.
01-12-2017, 10:05 PM
#6
Member
Read my recent posts regarding my 2013 ML350 Bluetec. I'm sure there are lots of MB owners whos has much better luck regarding reliability, I think I have higher than average regarding repairs. After owning it for 1 year, it really makes me rethink about the brand and whether to lease the next time around.
The ML was "just right". Not too big, not too small, powerful enough, and pretty decent on gas. Super safe for the family, and not a mammoth of a car.
My first MB and first diesel. There is a turbo lag. Not sure if the bi-turbo completely eliminates the lag. Heard that any turbos can get tripped-up. Since youre doing lots of highway, you wont feel it as much as if you're doing heavy stop and go city traffic.
On paper, the diesel fits your bill.
Here are the down sides of it. In NYC, diesel is a premium to premium gas....about 20% more expensive. My improved mileage on diesel is about 20%. So, basically break-even, just fewer trips to the gas station. However in NJ, diesel is much cheaper then premium. I save a $1 per gallon. Almost makes sense to pay the toll to save $24.
Turbo lag noticeable especially when you stomp on the pedal to merge at street speeds.
Too many extra expensive parts that go along with a diesel. Not a mechanic here but off the top, you have the particulate filter, turbocharger, oil cooler, DEF fluid heater, regen system and NOx sensors. That's all cool when everything works, but there are known design flaws and high rates of failure. Any one of these components break, it will cost $2000 to repair each.
I really thought that given MB history, if anyone knows diesel, MB knows diesel engines. Granted, the engines may last for 500k miles and take 50k miles to break-in. However, that $15 gasket below the oil cooler, or $10 gasket by the turbo intake only lasts 40k miles. Its gonna take a technician 12hrs of labor to replace it when it fails.
If I had to do it again, the model and brand may be a good choice, but the engine type doesn't fit my lifestyle. No significant increase in fuel savings, dont pull a trailer, turbo lag in city traffic and higher engine repair costs.
btw: Towing capacity for gas and diesel is both rated the same. I guess we all can lift 50lbs over our heads, the difference is how hard we grim. I wonder if the towing capacity is a function or the ability of braking instead of acceleration. 0-60 is also about the same.
The ML was "just right". Not too big, not too small, powerful enough, and pretty decent on gas. Super safe for the family, and not a mammoth of a car.
My first MB and first diesel. There is a turbo lag. Not sure if the bi-turbo completely eliminates the lag. Heard that any turbos can get tripped-up. Since youre doing lots of highway, you wont feel it as much as if you're doing heavy stop and go city traffic.
On paper, the diesel fits your bill.
Here are the down sides of it. In NYC, diesel is a premium to premium gas....about 20% more expensive. My improved mileage on diesel is about 20%. So, basically break-even, just fewer trips to the gas station. However in NJ, diesel is much cheaper then premium. I save a $1 per gallon. Almost makes sense to pay the toll to save $24.
Turbo lag noticeable especially when you stomp on the pedal to merge at street speeds.
Too many extra expensive parts that go along with a diesel. Not a mechanic here but off the top, you have the particulate filter, turbocharger, oil cooler, DEF fluid heater, regen system and NOx sensors. That's all cool when everything works, but there are known design flaws and high rates of failure. Any one of these components break, it will cost $2000 to repair each.
I really thought that given MB history, if anyone knows diesel, MB knows diesel engines. Granted, the engines may last for 500k miles and take 50k miles to break-in. However, that $15 gasket below the oil cooler, or $10 gasket by the turbo intake only lasts 40k miles. Its gonna take a technician 12hrs of labor to replace it when it fails.
If I had to do it again, the model and brand may be a good choice, but the engine type doesn't fit my lifestyle. No significant increase in fuel savings, dont pull a trailer, turbo lag in city traffic and higher engine repair costs.
btw: Towing capacity for gas and diesel is both rated the same. I guess we all can lift 50lbs over our heads, the difference is how hard we grim. I wonder if the towing capacity is a function or the ability of braking instead of acceleration. 0-60 is also about the same.
Last edited by BluetecKING; 01-12-2017 at 10:11 PM.
01-12-2017, 10:06 PM
#7
I love the 2014 bluetec 3.0. I think the 4cyl diesel is weak.
The gasser is better from a maint standpoint. Price out 50K miles of services to prove the point. Love the 600Mile range of the Bluetec.
Out of warranty the gasser will be cheaper.
Both good, I just like the extra power of the diesel.
The gasser is better from a maint standpoint. Price out 50K miles of services to prove the point. Love the 600Mile range of the Bluetec.
Out of warranty the gasser will be cheaper.
Both good, I just like the extra power of the diesel.
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01-12-2017, 10:23 PM
#8
Got mine as CPO from MB of WhitePlains. Salespeople are very professional and friendly. Behind the scene of the service department is a different story. A lot of obvious things were missed during the CPO process and multiple visits for the same repairs make me think either they are not well trained, or dont care.
Last edited by mikel212; 01-12-2017 at 10:25 PM.
01-13-2017, 08:52 AM
#9
Member
Got mine as CPO from MB of WhitePlains. Salespeople are very professional and friendly. Behind the scene of the service department is a different story. A lot of obvious things were missed during the CPO process and multiple visits for the same repairs make me think either they are not well trained, or dont care.
01-13-2017, 09:28 AM
#10
I now get it serviced at MB of Manhattan. Their yelp review is much better. They are not independently owned but instead operated by MBUSA. The independently owned dealerships have a bottom line to consider and cut corners. My manufacturer's warranty just ended and have the CPO warranty(less coverage) for another year. Lets see if they treat me differently. I have a feeling that all those gremlins that were "operating under normal specs" while under manufacturer's warranty is suddenly serviceable at a price.
01-13-2017, 11:09 AM
#11
Member
I now get it serviced at MB of Manhattan. Their yelp review is much better. They are not independently owned but instead operated by MBUSA. The independently owned dealerships have a bottom line to consider and cut corners. My manufacturer's warranty just ended and have the CPO warranty(less coverage) for another year. Lets see if they treat me differently. I have a feeling that all those gremlins that were "operating under normal specs" while under manufacturer's warranty is suddenly serviceable at a price.
01-13-2017, 04:21 PM
#12
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2014 ML350 2w, 2017 GLS550, 1967 Pontiac GTO 4 sp
I now get it serviced at MB of Manhattan. Their yelp review is much better. They are not independently owned but instead operated by MBUSA. The independently owned dealerships have a bottom line to consider and cut corners. My manufacturer's warranty just ended and have the CPO warranty(less coverage) for another year. Lets see if they treat me differently. I have a feeling that all those gremlins that were "operating under normal specs" while under manufacturer's warranty is suddenly serviceable at a price.
01-15-2017, 09:01 AM
#14
BlueTecKING - MB of Manhattan always have loaners. My only problem, they dont always have GLE which is what I need for three car seats. I usually get my service rep to guarantee and double check before I go in. Most appointments are usual within 1 wk.
PJW1967- I wish you're correct. My 4 yr ended in Nov'16. My sunroof didnt open correctly and needed cleaning and grease. Brought it in last week and was told its part of maintenance and will be a charged. I said NO, they suggested 50/50, I said NO, they said OK and did it anyway. I think bumper-to-bumper under CPO means main components and not something that needs regular maintenance, cosmetic or normal wear and tear. For instance, my CPO MDX's shield started to peel. Again, right after manufacturer's warranty expired..they said "had I brought it in before expired", they would cover the cost. CPO doesnt. Then again, its just one of those things that you need to fight to get done. Lets be honest, the service dept wants your cash.
I think they just want you to think 5y, unlimited mileage. In reality, its 4yr 50k miles covered by the manufacturer. MB will reimburse fully the cost to fix. The remaining 1yr is by the dealer who sells you the extended as well. Like insurance companies, they charge and keep the premiums hoping never to payout. That would explain why they coverage is not as extensive. See if they will cover a tear in the leather seat on day one they same way on day 4year-one-day.
PJW1967- I wish you're correct. My 4 yr ended in Nov'16. My sunroof didnt open correctly and needed cleaning and grease. Brought it in last week and was told its part of maintenance and will be a charged. I said NO, they suggested 50/50, I said NO, they said OK and did it anyway. I think bumper-to-bumper under CPO means main components and not something that needs regular maintenance, cosmetic or normal wear and tear. For instance, my CPO MDX's shield started to peel. Again, right after manufacturer's warranty expired..they said "had I brought it in before expired", they would cover the cost. CPO doesnt. Then again, its just one of those things that you need to fight to get done. Lets be honest, the service dept wants your cash.
I think they just want you to think 5y, unlimited mileage. In reality, its 4yr 50k miles covered by the manufacturer. MB will reimburse fully the cost to fix. The remaining 1yr is by the dealer who sells you the extended as well. Like insurance companies, they charge and keep the premiums hoping never to payout. That would explain why they coverage is not as extensive. See if they will cover a tear in the leather seat on day one they same way on day 4year-one-day.
Last edited by mikel212; 01-15-2017 at 09:31 AM.
01-15-2017, 09:37 AM
#15
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2014 ML350 2w, 2017 GLS550, 1967 Pontiac GTO 4 sp
BlueTecKING - MB of Manhattan always have loaners. My only problem, they dont always have GLE which is what I need for three car seats. I usually get my service rep to guarantee and double check before I go in. Most appointments are usual within 1 wk.
PJW1967- I wish you're correct. My 4 yr ended in Nov'16. My sunroof didnt open correctly and needed cleaning and grease. Brought it in last week and was told its part of maintenance and will be a charged. I said NO, they suggested 50/50, I said NO, they said OK and did it anyway. I think bumper-to-bumper under CPO means main components and not something that needs regular maintenance, cosmetic or normal wear and tear. For instance, my CPO MDX's shield started to peel. Again, right after manufacturer's warranty expired..they said "had I brought it in before expired", they would cover the cost. CPO doesnt. Then again, its just one of those things that you need to fight to get done. Lets be honest, the service dept wants your cash.
I think they just want you to think 5y, unlimited mileage. In reality, its 4yr 50k miles covered by the manufacturer. MB will reimburse fully the cost to fix. The remaining 1yr is by the dealer who sells you the extended as well. Like insurance companies, they charge and keep the premiums hoping never to payout. That would explain why they coverage is not as extensive. See if they will cover a tear in the leather seat on day one they same way on day 4year-one-day.
PJW1967- I wish you're correct. My 4 yr ended in Nov'16. My sunroof didnt open correctly and needed cleaning and grease. Brought it in last week and was told its part of maintenance and will be a charged. I said NO, they suggested 50/50, I said NO, they said OK and did it anyway. I think bumper-to-bumper under CPO means main components and not something that needs regular maintenance, cosmetic or normal wear and tear. For instance, my CPO MDX's shield started to peel. Again, right after manufacturer's warranty expired..they said "had I brought it in before expired", they would cover the cost. CPO doesnt. Then again, its just one of those things that you need to fight to get done. Lets be honest, the service dept wants your cash.
I think they just want you to think 5y, unlimited mileage. In reality, its 4yr 50k miles covered by the manufacturer. MB will reimburse fully the cost to fix. The remaining 1yr is by the dealer who sells you the extended as well. Like insurance companies, they charge and keep the premiums hoping never to payout. That would explain why they coverage is not as extensive. See if they will cover a tear in the leather seat on day one they same way on day 4year-one-day.
http://www.autotrader.com/car-shoppi...es-benz-239524
01-15-2017, 10:00 AM
#16
I dont have the contract in front of my. I agree , for the most part its bumper-to-bumper ......minus the normal wear and tear. Spent 15 minutes trying to find the "tiny print". You need to visit the dealer to get more information. SHOCKING!
Last edited by mikel212; 01-15-2017 at 10:03 AM.
01-15-2017, 05:20 PM
#18
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Presently 19 S560 SEDAN, 2014 XK, SOLD GLE 450e
A 2014 Bluetec. It has Grunt, unlike the gas. I've driven loaner gas and they're ok as long as you can't get a 3.0 liter diesel. No to 4cyl diesel, although I've not driven one ever.
01-16-2017, 04:52 PM
#19
Member
Hmmm, I'll take that into account next time, last time I was there an appointment w/ loaner was quoted for three months from that day.
01-18-2017, 12:10 AM
#20
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Presently 19 S560 SEDAN, 2014 XK, SOLD GLE 450e
IT seems there's still a glimer of hope for Diesel heads who want a Ml/GLE BLUETEC.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/mercede...t-six-engines/
Way down at the bottom of that article, there's mention of a coming 3.0 diesel for the GLE, that will have 300 plus hp and I assume tons of more torque than my 2014 ML BLUETEC.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/mercede...t-six-engines/
Way down at the bottom of that article, there's mention of a coming 3.0 diesel for the GLE, that will have 300 plus hp and I assume tons of more torque than my 2014 ML BLUETEC.
