Isawelvis

NOTE: This is from my earlier post on General discussion, had no input, so Im moving it here because its a ML350

Went to a local Mercedes dealer to trade my 2015 ML350 (which is still under CPO warranty) and found out it had frame damage according to CARFAX, I purchased the car from another Mercedes dealer as a CPO back in 2016. This was unknown to me at the time of purchase. Because the DEALER run carfax has frame damage noted on it, now the dealer Im working with is saying the car is worth 8,000 less that book. He asked me if I knew it had frame damage. All news to me and quite a shock.

I am still researching this and trying to get an answer from CARFAX, but I have learned something. Number 1: The CARFAX report the dealer has access too, gives more data than the one you or I can get. The jury is still out on whether its an incorrect carfax or the dealer slipped one on me. Story to continue

If anyone has had an experience with unknown damage to a CPO car please let me
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rustybear3

Did you yourself check CARFAX before you purchased your 2015 ML350? If it indeed did not included in the CARFAX you've read or received, I would think you would have a case against CARFAX for not disclosing this damage.

fabbrisd1

1. Have you seen a copy of this CarFax ?

2. Technically - with know frame damage a Mercedes can't pass inspection for Certification.

3. Need to check CarFax for date of reported damage as compared to your purchase date

4. Both MB dealers would have access to VMI

we47b1me

you need to go back to the dealer you bought the car from and bring a copy of the cpo checklist from MBUSA, and be ready to call MB corporate

peter2772000

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This!!!

JALLEN4

It would be very likely the previous damage was reported to Carfax sometime after the dealer acquired the car and ran their own report. Reported damage is also recorded for the wrong vehicle upon occasion and is very difficult to have corrected by Carfax. It would be highly unlikely the dealer would certify a known frame damaged vehicle purposely. They just have too large an investment involved to play games with the process for a very limited amount of benefit.

ygmn

ya need to read the MB CPO page and certification.
This car shouldnot have passed CPO to begin with if it had frame damage.

https://www.mbusa.com/en/cpo#certification
Download and read inspection brochure.
First page lists Certification STOPPERS
see cut and paste below



Call MBUSA and DEALER and start the talks

Also if CPO yo uhave 5 days or I think 500 miles to return car for one of equal value.

rustybear3

"All Dealers participating in the MB CPO Program have agreed to provide an exchange privilege that provides customers, not satisfied with their vehicle, the ability to bring it back within seven calendar days or 500 miles from date of sale, whichever occurs first. Under the Exchange Privilege Program, a customer can exchange their vehicle for another Mercedes-Benz Certified Pre-Owned vehicle or new Mercedes-Benz vehicle of equal or greater price".

There is no way that Mercedes could have gone through the so-called rigorous inspection without them noticing frame damage. CARFAX even noted it as such. That car that car should have never been sold as a CPO under their own rules, as vgmn has stated.

Also, I'm still curious as to whether the OP saw the CARFAX before buying the car.

JALLEN4

You are assuming that (1) the information was on the Carfax at the time they owned it, (2) that the damage was evident, and (3) the Carfax report is accurate and the dealer wrong. As a retired 40 year new car dealer I can assure you it is all not as easy as amateurs think and Mercedes dealers are not purposefully playing with their multi-million dollar franchise for a few dollars on a used car.

rustybear3

It has already been stated that it was on the CARFAX report, so that's a moot point.

JALLEN4

It has been stated the damage is noted on the Carfax the trade-in dealer ran three years after the original used purchase. It is unknown in the thread whether the damage appeared at the time of the OP's purchase. The dealer does not get a different report than the one available to the public. The Carfax business model was to appeal to the consumer and was basically forced on the dealer.

My point is simple. Carfax does make mistakes and I have seen many. It is also incredibly difficult to get them to change their information and I have seen consumers unjustly penalized for reported damage that was simply not accurate. If in fact the original dealer, for some reason, knew of the damage and did not disclose it... they should be held responsible and should pay. But, it is very unfair to assume the original dealer was absolutely wrong regardless of facts.

rustybear3

Hence, my asking the question as to whether the OP noted what was on a CARFAX before he bought the car. It sounds as if he didn't. The frame damage on the CARFAX must list particulars as to when, where and how. That's really important. If CARFAX shows that damage was incurred before the OP's original purchase and this latest dealer can confirm the damage as well on inspection, where do you think the blame should lie? That's all I and others are saying.

JALLEN4

If in fact the CARFAX information can be proved to have been available on the Carfax at the time of sale to the OP, it would be my opinion they are liable. That would also be dependent that the Mercedes certification program included the caveat that the car not be certified if previous frame damage is known was a part of the program when the car was sold in 2016.

I am not looking to absolve the dealer but blame needs to be established fairly. If it had been one of my stores, I would want to see all the facts and be able to point to where my people had not followed their responsibilities to the customer and the process. When that was established, I would pay immediately. If it cannot be established, the store is not liable.

Snowbird12

JALLEN4

Perhaps you can share with us the number of Mercedes Dealer Agreements you have held and the first hand experience that you base your broad knowledge on?

Mercedes does have a great deal of influence with their dealers. There are a number of times when they cannot tell the dealer what to do exactly but also a number of times the dealer will recognize the importance of their co-operation on a long term basis. Having millions of dollars invested tends to make you a little more concerned about where you are going with your franchise.

Snowbird12

i have owened 8 MB products , this last one is the final one.
One I bought as a CPO and had breating issues with it that made it impossible for me to drive it
I wanted to exchange it for another one , even pay &1000 to the sales dept
i was 3 days into ownership but bringing the car back to the dealer would have taken me over the 500 miles.
I spent $500 to try to clean it , in the end I lost $9000 of the value when I traded it in 4 weeks later
Dealer said no and MB corporate wouldnt help citing that it was a franchisee
i lost $9000 when I traded it in on another MB product.
Now i have a damaged wheel from a dealer after a wheel balance and the customer service person said “we have no power over them to make it right”
Same story again.
Thats my experience I am talking about.

Isawelvis

I cannot prove, since I don't have a copy of a CARFAX report on the date I bought the car, but the accident entry three months after the date I purchased the car, (in the future) would not have been on the accident report. So whether I have one or not is a mute point. I am getting very little response from CARFAX after several emails and faxing them document data. Story continues. I do appreciate all the inputs though

Also, I was incorrect in stating the dealer got a different CARFAX report, they are both the same. My problem is I see the damage on the computer screen but when I print it off, it leaves that page out. Again, I am trying to get the facts from CARFAX before raising the issue at the dealer.

C280 Sport

Honestly if it was me I would just drive the damn thing until the wheels fall off. You can get 200,000+ out of a ML no problem. Keep it forever since it is only going down in value anyways. Assuming the car has been good for you why give it up?

Isawelvis

UPDATE ON CARFAX FRAME DAMAGE CPO ENTRY. First thanks for all the inputs.

I finally got the CARFAX people to review my complaint and they stated "the damage event was verified, but the terminology used to triggered the structural alert flag which should not have happened" They removed the structural damage report and changed the first line on the CARFAX report to Green , no accidents reported to CARFAX. They changed the next line, it to read, minor damage. So at least I got this part straight.

Lessons learned, 1)go to CARFAX first, which I did. It is extremely burdensome to get info back and forth with them but they did respond. Its all through email and fax
2) Have the dealer give you a CARFAX copy on the day you purchase your car and KEEP it.

Like I corrected earlier, the CARFAX the dealer gets and the one you yourself purchase on line ARE the SAME report. I incorrectly said they were different.

I am still miffed that the accident entry date was after I purchased the car. I should have know about this, but at this time I cannot produce a CARFAX around the date I purchased the car.

Like the saying goes, "First time shame on you, second time shame on me" There will be no second time for me!

Thanks again for your inputs and I still debating my next step.