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I recently did a wheel alignment and got the attached results. The mechanic said that they cant adjust into specs the front/rear cross camber angles unless an aftermarket part is installed. He also said that, that will not affect tires wear. Any ideas on whether that is correct?
By the way, 6 months ago, my alignment specs were all within the recommended specs.
Why did you have an alignment done 6 months after the most recent alignment? Is this car dropped, lowered or bagged? Or running large wheels (22" and above) or large tires?
There is too much, although within spec, left toe-in. Reduce left toe-in and you will regain some negative camber, helping cross camber.
My philosophy is don't touch alignment unless something is broken. Is anything broken?
Why did you have an alignment done 6 months after the most recent alignment? Is this car dropped, lowered or bagged? Or running large wheels (22" and above) or large tires?
There is too much, although within spec, left toe-in. Reduce left toe-in and you will regain some negative camber, helping cross camber.
My philosophy is don't touch alignment unless something is broken. Is anything broken?
Well long story short, preventive meintenance and also to make sure that if I get any unexpected tire wear, the shop will not blame my cars alignment (happened in the past both in MB and in other locations).
Other than that no issues with the car. That is why I dont understand the significant differences in the readings within 5 months.
Having said that, is it true that the out of spec cross camber will not affect tire wear?
Unknowable. Out of spec cross-camber might, but cannot be guaranteed to, cause you to steer in such a way as to counteract the cross-camber.
Both of your right tires have more negative camber than both of your left tires. This means the cross-camber has the same magnitude on both axles and will be pushing or steering the car to the left. To counteract this you might need to steer right. If the effect is strong enough (again, not knowable), you will experience accelerated tire wear, all things being equal.
The only way to know is to drive in the real world with the vehicle loaded on real roads which may be cambered, broken pavement, etc. If your car is an urban grocery-getter, it might never be a problem. If you are a high mileage road warrior with mainly freeway miles, I could see this possibly being a problem.
The alignment report you provided in the original post is not from an MB dealer, correct?
Ive tried to have Alignments done at non-MB Dealers multiple times (in 2 different states), and they all come back with similar comments. We dont have the right tools, it needs some sort of MB specific part we dont have, Just cant get it to align...ultimately, seems only dealers can align these. However, I DID find a local specialty shop that CAN do the alignment...saves about $50 from dealer. Not sure why, but average alignment shops cant do alignments on these vehicles. Maybe Chassis knows why that is?
Alignment is a tricky procedure because toe, caster and camber all affect each other. It truly is a "dialing-it-in" process. Part of the dialing-in process is to know how friction in the suspension joints and tires interact with the alignment machine and therefore influence the alignment result. Probably the jockeys who align Honda MacPherson strut suspensions don't have A. the experience, B. the comprehension, to align a modern German multi-link suspension.
By way of example, the latest Cayenne front suspension has 6 ball joints: 2 upper ball joints, 2 lower ball joints, 2 tie rod joints (inner and outer). This is a challenge to align.
It is normal and widespread that dealer groups use shared garage facilities to service their various brands. My local Porsche dealer two weeks ago had a clapped-out rusty Ford Explorer on the lift next to a new 911. So dumb. This means alignment equipment and machinery is not the difference, but rather technician skill is the difference. Assuming of course a shop has an alignment rack with the minimum required capability, and not a machine from the 1950s. My previous local MB dealer had dedicated space for MB service, but I don't recall seeing an alignment rack there. I assume they did alignments across the street in the Cadillac dealer owned by the same dealer principal.
And MBs have notoriously large negative rear camber which cannot be fully adjusted out. This is why K-Mac offers aftermarket parts, although these are not required to achieve factory alignment settings (along with factory high rear negative camber).
In summary: the inability to achieve zero cross camber is lack of technician skill.
Unknowable. Out of spec cross-camber might, but cannot be guaranteed to, cause you to steer in such a way as to counteract the cross-camber.
Both of your right tires have more negative camber than both of your left tires. This means the cross-camber has the same magnitude on both axles and will be pushing or steering the car to the left. To counteract this you might need to steer right. If the effect is strong enough (again, not knowable), you will experience accelerated tire wear, all things being equal.
The only way to know is to drive in the real world with the vehicle loaded on real roads which may be cambered, broken pavement, etc. If your car is an urban grocery-getter, it might never be a problem. If you are a high mileage road warrior with mainly freeway miles, I could see this possibly being a problem.
The alignment report you provided in the original post is not from an MB dealer, correct?
Yes both images I attached were from a local firestone.
Though, my adventure started on a MB dealer. When I purchased the car (used) I took it for alignment to a MB dealer (see image below). Then ~9 months later one of the front tires (cant remember which one) was totally warn on the outside. I brough that to them and they simply said it is not our problem (which could be the case but I didnt like the attitude). Hence I replaced the tires and tried the firestone for my new allignment. 1st time was ok but 6months later (now...) they arrived to the specs I shared to the original post. The reason I took it after 6 months for new alignment, is because they claimed that in order to honor the tire warranty they would want alignment every 6 months (inlcuded in the lifetime aligment package at no cost).
At some point this week I will take it to another local firestone and give it one more try (since it is free) and see how that goes..
Yes both images I attached were from a local firestone.
Though, my adventure started on a MB dealer. When I purchased the car (used) I took it for alignment to a MB dealer (see image below). Then ~9 months later one of the front tires (cant remember which one) was totally warn on the outside. I brough that to them and they simply said it is not our problem (which could be the case but I didnt like the attitude). Hence I replaced the tires and tried the firestone for my new allignment. 1st time was ok but 6months later (now...) they arrived to the specs I shared to the original post. The reason I took it after 6 months for new alignment, is because they claimed that in order to honor the tire warranty they would want alignment every 6 months (inlcuded in the lifetime aligment package at no cost).
At some point this week I will take it to another local firestone and give it one more try (since it is free) and see how that goes..
By the way the firestone guys said that they can only adjust the front/rear Toe on this car and nothing else. Is this true?
Camber is the issue with MB vehicles. They come from the factory with excessive negative rear camber and it is either not adjustable, or not very adjustable.
Both alignment reports from your vehicle have large amounts of negative rear camber. Spend some time searching this site to see what the specs are (I don't remember) and what other users have done about it, if anything.
Most people decide to do nothing and live with short tire life. It's a design defect from MB intended to increase rear axle grip and therefore safety and stability. Good idea but poor execution.
Yes W166 SUV - reality OEM there is only front and rear Toe (directional) adjustment !
No Camber or Caster to adjust tire contact angles - spread load more evenly to prevent costly, premature excess edge tire wear. New car industries best kept secret.
We saw the need to fix it right the first time - to re instate adjustment for other then showroom height conditions. Excess passenger side edge wear through high cambered roads. Wheel squat through load carrying or lowering. Fitting wide profile tires plus having "ongoing adjustment capability for curb knock damage.
#504016N $695 This front kit provides precise Camber and Caster adjustment along with the added advantage of also replacing the 4 "highest wearing" lower arm suspension bushings at the same time.
The 2 rear bushings are subject to premature failure and OEM are very expensive to replace. This kit also comes with bush extraction tool allowing to be fitted without arm removal.
REAR SUSPENSION:
#504026K $480 Camber (and extra Toe) adjustable
Also at same time replaces the 4 lower arm, highest wearing bushings. Like front kit also supplied with bush extraction tool, so can be fitted without need for arm removal.
BOTH FRONT AND REAR KITS ARE PRECISE SINGLE WRENCH ADJUSTABLE - accurately (under load, direct on alignment rack).
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AUDI to VOLVO - K-MAC Experience Of Resolving OEM Suspension Shortcomings Since 1964 !
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