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M275 V12 Bi-Turbo Platform Technical discussion relating to models sharing the M275 V12 Bi-Turbo (V12 TT). Including SL600, SL65 AMG, CL600, CL65 AMG, S600, S65 AMG.
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Cooling down the V12TT

 
Old 10-08-2012, 04:26 AM
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With the speedriven scorpion air intake does it have a mounting point for the factory sensors that are in the air intake box? also is that a real major performance gain? I know by reading this thread that it will not have a dramatic affect on IAT, but instead just increase the flow of air that the factory box restricts... or am I wrong? Would the power be in the low rpm or more in the higher rpm? Finally, holding boost in the higher RPMs would have more to do with having a larger heat exchanger to cool the oil temps then anything else, would a replacement or a addition of a secondary be the best choice? If so, I know eurocharged replaces, who would offer a second addition or would I have to fab one up?

Sorry, I had my CL for a while but besides a exhaust and tune I really have not considered more mods, until recently I just had a random interest to improve the car some more.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:41 AM
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W203 slightly modified
Force feed the car liquid air. Then you dont even need air intakes.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:49 AM
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lol, or just place a giant piece of Dry Ice in your engine bay to cool it off...
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:37 AM
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I have the intake and I like that I hear the turbos working more but I noticed my car is a bit slow when I set idle or at stop lights because it is just sucking in all of that heat but it isn't as bad when it is in motion and there is air coming through. There are no mounts for the sensors or the emissions hose which was a bit strange to me but overall I think they are good.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:22 AM
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Now, you notice the slower feel of the car as it pulls in the hot air from low speeds or stop, however do you notice a better response as you cruise at higher speeds or with WOT? I spoke with Speedriven, and they said you could optioned to have the emissions outlet or else it normally does not come with it.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:02 AM
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I agree with that. It is just a bit doggy if there hasn't been air flow under the hood. It is a cool looking design and I'm sure flows better air but there has to be one more evolution in intake design before I would say they have hit perfection. I will say if you go with the big boy intercooler set up this intake is the only option. I am also curious what the heat soak difference would be with a composite or plastic set up
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:46 PM
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Nemesis, did you have a hard time contacting Speedriven? or did you purchase from somewhere else?
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:50 PM
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I got it from them. Actually I got Ecu tcu HE and I takes all at the same time. It is a decent product but I did all my own work and none of it came with instructions and getting ahold of them wasn't easy. I ended up doin the whole project blind as thy never ended up gettin me install info but it wasn't terribly difficult. I would give them a 100% feedback if they hired someone just for tech support and responding to emails because a little help bleeding the intercooler circuit would have saved me about 200 from the dealership. I will contact them if I get the budget for the inter cooler upgrades as they are a good group of guys and I like the work they do to research for our cars and hopefully it's a bit smoother after it gets in.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:38 PM
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I just had an idea. We're interested in V12TT cars, and ways to keep intake air cool. I believe these cars have a secondary water radiator in the wheel arch. Well, my S600 does, anyway. I guess its there to provide more cooling capacity than just the primary radiator, and stop the engine coolant overheating in adverse conditions (towing a trailer up a mountain in the summer). Speaking for myself, in the UK, that's not much of a probleme

So how about disconnecting the secondary rad from the engine coolant and connect it in parallel with the charge cooler rad? I haven't measured the secondary rad, But I'd guess it had a similar capacity to the slim (0.8in) IC rad, so in theory that might provide a doubling of charge cooling capacity.

I like keeping a stock car, and there wouldn't be much sign of any modifications.

The other option might be to include the windscreen washer heating circuit into the charge cooler circuit. That might mean the washer fluid would be left cooler than before, but I don't think its at all critical. It would add a lot of cooling mass, and help to slow down the increase of IAT under load. The difference wouldn't be great, but its gotta help. This was somebody else's idea, so I don't claim credit for this.

Couple those measures with a moderate ECU/TCU tune and an uprated IC pump, and I think you have a stealthy modified car.

Nick
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:00 PM
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Food for though.
I spend countless hours trying to bleed my system after the heat exchanger and second pump install, i could not get all the air out for some reason.
I went to the dealer and had them use their pressure bleeder to remove all the air. My friend who is tech said he had to bleed the system 5 times to get all the air out and it took 2 liter off additional water.
So if you all have replaced the pump, heat exchanger etc etc in the past take the car to the dealer to bleed the system before doing additional cooling mods.
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:47 PM
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Is there anything your friend did with the actual MB stuff that we are unable to do with normal equipment for bleeding (such as the Snap-On system i use)?

Aaron
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WHTEVO View Post
Is there anything your friend did with the actual MB stuff that we are unable to do with normal equipment for bleeding (such as the Snap-On system i use)?

Aaron
i have no idea. maybe the snap on system will work, only way to find out is try it out.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by shardul View Post
i have no idea. maybe the snap on system will work, only way to find out is try it out.

Your second pump, do you know if it's added in parallel to the first (stock) pump or in series?

One thing I observed about the routing of water in and out of the the stock pump is that the flow path is pretty lame. There is a downward and then upward slope (or slopes) and turns leading into the INLET of the pump. This makes it very hard to gravity push the water to the pump and easy to cavitate on the way to the pump and cause bubbles.

What I ended up making is a small reservoir to integrate into the system and the system essentially bleeds itself. Water gets pushed into the reservoir once it leaves the heat exhchanger and air (bubbles) vent and remaining water in the reservoir is gravity fed downwards straight into the pump inlet. This way, once the bubbles pass through the reservoir once, they have no chance of entering the system again. The cycles go on and on until there isn't even the most minute size bubbles left in the system.


Without this, I don't know if you guys will ever know if you end up with big bubbles in the system even after the 5 bleed sessions you had done on your's.

Last edited by twingtx; 10-29-2012 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by twingtx View Post
Your second pump, do you know if it's added in parallel to the first (stock) pump or in series?

One thing I observed about the routing of water in and out of the the stock pump is that the flow path is pretty lame. There is a downward and then upward slope (or slopes) and turns leading into the INLET of the pump. This makes it very hard to gravity push the water to the pump and easy to cavitate on the way to the pump and cause bubbles.

What I ended up making is a small reservoir to integrate into the system and the system essentially bleeds itself. Water gets pushed into the reservoir once it leaves the heat exhchanger and air (bubbles) vent and remaining water in the reservoir is gravity fed downwards straight into the pump inlet. This way, once the bubbles pass through the reservoir once, they have no chance of entering the system again. The cycles go on and on until there isn't even the most minute size bubbles left in the system.


Without this, I don't know if you guys will ever know if you end up with big bubbles in the system even after the 5 bleed sessions you had done on your's.
I added it in series with the stock pump. I like your reservoir idea do you have some pics of the set up. What about the hole on the inside bottom of the radiator cap does that suck in air too if the fluid level drops below the opening. BTW what have you done to your 600 to get it to run 11.4
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Last edited by shardul; 10-29-2012 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by shardul View Post
i have no idea. maybe the snap on system will work, only way to find out is try it out.
I have the Snap-On one and have used it on the car already after i did my pump. I just feel like the liquid temps in the intercooler system get way too hot. Was just seeing if there was a for sure way to tell if it is completely bled or if for some reason the MB system they use for bleeding does it differently/ more effectively.

Aaron
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by WHTEVO View Post
I have the Snap-On one and have used it on the car already after i did my pump. I just feel like the liquid temps in the intercooler system get way too hot. Was just seeing if there was a for sure way to tell if it is completely bled or if for some reason the MB system they use for bleeding does it differently/ more effectively.

Aaron
the fluid in my car use to get so hot with the air in it system that the water would boil in the system. after bleeding i can touch the IC after a spirited drive and they are warm not hot.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:24 AM
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/\ Thanks for the info. I must have air in the system still. Because after a spirited drive, or even a couple highway pulls, the intercoolers are so hot i can't even put my hand on them. I keep meaning to bring my IR heat gun with me when i do drive the car to see what them temps are getting to but keep forgetting to grab it. When yours would boil, would water drip or come out of the little open nipple on the back of the water neck where the coolant cap (intercooler system cap) is?

Aaron
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by WHTEVO View Post
/\ Thanks for the info. I must have air in the system still. Because after a spirited drive, or even a couple highway pulls, the intercoolers are so hot i can't even put my hand on them. I keep meaning to bring my IR heat gun with me when i do drive the car to see what them temps are getting to but keep forgetting to grab it. When yours would boil, would water drip or come out of the little open nipple on the back of the water neck where the coolant cap (intercooler system cap) is?

Aaron
pressure would build up and the water would evaporate and after a couple of days the system would not have any water in it.
after speaking to a number of shops who work on the V12 they said the MB apparatus for bleeding is the only way to get all the air out.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:13 AM
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I will look into having it done with the MB bleeder. Since i have been suspecting that the system is getting hotter than it should, I do check the fluid level in the intercooler system after every couple times i drive the car and have noticed, each time, it has lost a little bit of fluid ( no actual leaks). Not very much, but i also notice the area behind that open nipple has whitish (dried coolant) residue on it which i suspect is coming out of that open nipple when/ if it boils. I ordered a new coolant cap and will do some temp checks on the i/c system before and after the MB tool is used. I think i may ditch the CM30 pump i put in and try the Bosch unit out too. Thanks for the info!

Aaron
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by WHTEVO View Post
I will look into having it done with the MB bleeder. Since i have been suspecting that the system is getting hotter than it should, I do check the fluid level in the intercooler system after every couple times i drive the car and have noticed, each time, it has lost a little bit of fluid ( no actual leaks). Not very much, but i also notice the area behind that open nipple has whitish (dried coolant) residue on it which i suspect is coming out of that open nipple when/ if it boils. I ordered a new coolant cap and will do some temp checks on the i/c system before and after the MB tool is used. I think i may ditch the CM30 pump i put in and try the Bosch unit out too. Thanks for the info!

Aaron
keep the CM30 and add a bosch unit in series and you will be happy with the flow.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:17 PM
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Where did you mount your second one? I can barely even get my hands in the area my normal one is in :-/ May help if i removed my bumper though but it is still a pretty confined area nonetheless. Although the location of mine is not anywhere near where most others are at. Seems they changed the location of it in 07'-08'.

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Old 10-31-2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by WHTEVO View Post
Where did you mount your second one? I can barely even get my hands in the area my normal one is in :-/ May help if i removed my bumper though but it is still a pretty confined area nonetheless. Although the location of mine is not anywhere near where most others are at. Seems they changed the location of it in 07'-08'.

Aaron
right no top of the stock one. I moved the stock one a bit down
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:36 PM
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Has anyone tried this:

Remove the positive wire to the intercooler pump and terminate it.
Run a new positive wire from a key-on relay to the pump with or without toggle switch, you choose.
This will make the pump run at all times cooling down intake temps.

The question is this....will the ecu trip a code as to the pump "not working" since it cannot read any resistance from it?
Or is this a passive condition that the ecu doesn't care about...
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by greekviking View Post
Has anyone tried this:

Remove the positive wire to the intercooler pump and terminate it.
Run a new positive wire from a key-on relay to the pump with or without toggle switch, you choose.
This will make the pump run at all times cooling down intake temps.

The question is this....will the ecu trip a code as to the pump "not working" since it cannot read any resistance from it?
Or is this a passive condition that the ecu doesn't care about...
I've done this and the ECU doesn't know and doesn't care.

I added an inline flipper switch so that I can run the pump even when the motor is shut down. I have on many occasions left this switch on and drove for miles and miles and the ECU never detects that I've forced the pump to stay on constantly.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:01 PM
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Did you notice better performance with the pump always on?
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