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Belgian Gran Prix! HOLY CRAP!

 
Old 09-07-2008, 09:38 AM
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Belgian Gran Prix! HOLY CRAP!

WOW Did anyone else see those last two laps??? My god that is what Formula 1 racing is all about. I'm said to see Kimi go out of the race like that after such a gorgeous drive. With this race now Massa will become the number one driver at Ferrari. If you missed this race and your call your self an F1 fan, you deserve to allow yourself to watch the replay, it was truly amazing.

Final Results

Hmmm the F1 website hasnt put the official results up as the race just ended five minutes ago.
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Old 09-07-2008, 10:00 AM
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I watched the whole race. The ending was the most exciting finish to an F1 race in years.

I'm still in shock at what I just watched. Amazing!!! Hamilton is the man! McLaren just needs to pass Ferrari in the Constructors.
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Old 09-07-2008, 10:06 AM
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Ferrari sucks in the rain. I guess Hammy is used to it since he grew up in England. If the race was just one more lap, Heidfeld on intermediates would have gotten the win.
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Old 09-07-2008, 11:11 AM
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Wow! Saw the whole thing in disbelief! I can't believe that Raikkonen opened up the inside in the first corner and let Lewis pass. He giggled the car left and right but should had protected the inside instead I believe. I can't understand how he lost the car as well, it seemed to be in a straight line!

What a fantastic race from Lewis, I thought that he was going to settle for second but boy what a drive!
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Old 09-07-2008, 11:12 AM
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It was quite an exciting finish.

Now Ferrari are protesting {sigh}, so there could be a change in the order.

Pos No Driver Team Laps Time/Retired Grid Pts
1 22 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 44 Winner 1 10
2 2 Felipe Massa Ferrari 44 +14.4 secs 2 8
3 3 Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber 44 +23.8 secs 5 6
4 5 Fernando Alonso Renault 44 +28.9 secs 6 5
5 15 Sebastian Vettel STR-Ferrari 44 +29.0 secs 10 4
6 4 Robert Kubica BMW Sauber 44 +29.4 secs 8 3
7 14 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 44 +31.1 secs 9 2
8 12 Timo Glock Toyota 44 +56.5 secs 13 1
9 10 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 44 +57.2 secs 7
10 23 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 43 +1 Lap 3
11 9 David Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 43 +1 Lap 14
12 7 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 43 +1 Lap 15
13 20 Adrian Sutil Force India-Ferrari 43 +1 Lap 18
14 8 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 43 +1 Lap 19
15 16 Jenson Button Honda 43 +1 Lap 17
16 11 Jarno Trulli Toyota 43 +1 Lap 11
17 21 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India-Ferrari 43 +1 Lap 20
18 1 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 42 Accident 4
Ret 17 Rubens Barrichello Honda 19 Gearbox 16
Ret 6 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 13 Accident 12
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Old 09-07-2008, 11:28 AM
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What a race! Sure, I'm a big Iceman fan, and would have hoped Kimi could take it home, but probably the most exciting finish this year so far.
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Old 09-07-2008, 12:04 PM
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I hate to see races end the way this one did. The FIA stewards are investigating the bus stop chicane incident (as they should). Raikkonen was simply taking his line as Hamilton decided to cram his car in there too, having to shortcut the chicane to make the pass.

He gave the spot back, but took nearly half the straight down to LaSource to do it, then jammed his way round the Ferrari again. The last two laps were truly unprofessional after this incident, which had to un-nerve both Raikkonen and Hamilton (otherwise he wouldn't have driven so stupidly).

Had Kimi finished the race, he would have a better leg to stand on, as Ferrari have filed a protest as well. I suppose the FIA will just slap Hamilton with a worthless 10-spot grid penalty at Monza. He should be DQ'd instead.

Hamilton is a good driver, but he is very stubborn (a kind way of saying childish).

You guys think the last 2 laps were exciting, but I think the first 2 laps (and the next 40) were better.
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MB-BOB View Post
I hate to see races end the way this one did. The FIA stewards are investigating the bus stop chicane incident (as they should). Raikkonen was simply taking his line as Hamilton decided to cram his car in there too, having to shortcut the chicane to make the pass.

He gave the spot back, but took nearly half the straight down to LaSource to do it, then jammed his way round the Ferrari again. The last two laps were truly unprofessional after this incident, which had to un-nerve both Raikkonen and Hamilton (otherwise he wouldn't have driven so stupidly).

Had Kimi finished the race, he would have a better leg to stand on, as Ferrari have filed a protest as well. I suppose the FIA will just slap Hamilton with a worthless 10-spot grid penalty at Monza. He should be DQ'd instead.

Hamilton is a good driver, but he is very stubborn (a kind way of saying childish).

You guys think the last 2 laps were exciting, but I think the first 2 laps (and the next 40) were better.
You have a good point here. I still think that Raikkonen could have handled the situation a little bit better.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:53 PM
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Ah, so there is justice. Massa wins, Hamilton demoted 25 secs to third behind Heidfeld...

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...07182345.shtml
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:14 PM
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I cant say as I agree that justice has been done, Hamilton did what the rules require of him, he let Kimi back past him by the Start finish line and then repast him once he panicked. There is no stipulation that says he must give him any sort of lead back , just the position and he did, I believe that had Kimi not gone wide in the bus stop Hamilton would not have needed to short cut the corner, he did after all attempt to pass him on the outside.

What I say from Kimi was reminscient of Schumi and villeneuve in 96. There was no fould then or today. F1 has truly mucked it up again. With the penalties they handed out for contact in passing attempts F1 is going to make attempts to pass to punitive to attempt in the future. It scares me that anytime someone is being passed if they block and cause contact the person attempting the pass gets penalized, way to dumb down the pinnacle of motorsport.
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:31 PM
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Once again the stewards show clear bias towards Ferrari. What a horrible decision, especially in a section that was very wet. Hamilton was actually ahead of raikenon at this part of the track when he went wide, he did the right thing and let him go by. Absolutely pathetic way to get a victory from massa. Screw the FIA.
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:45 PM
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STUPID STUPID FIA!!!!!! Lets see what Mclearn puls. Would love to have hamilton still win the campionship.
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:40 PM
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FIAt will do everything in their power to keep mclaren from winning. Nothing will be sweeter than hammy winning in monza and the title.
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Old 09-07-2008, 07:04 PM
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You fellas need to park your biases and watch the replays again... I have watched them several times.

Hamilton was trying to outbrake Raikkonen on the OUTSIDE before the Bus stop... never a good move, and usually a sign of desperation.

KR took his normal right hand apex going into the bus stop, with LH no further advanced than mid Ferrari. Well before Raikkonen took his normal left-hand apex at the corner, LH's front wing was out of KR's view. KR was totally within his right to take both apexes.

LH only took the lead when he diverted to the shortcut through the turn. A complete no-no. Still to KR's left, LH did not immediately gave back the position until several seconds later, when both cars were 150+ meters past the start finish line. The rules say you must give back the position IMMEDIATELY.

Instead, the millisecond LH's front wing cleared KR's rear wing (and at the start of the braking zone for La Source), Hamilton swerved within inches behind and to KR's right. In effect he did not surrender the position completely, but rather used the tailgate maneuver to slipstream Raikkonen.

Stated another way, it appeared that he slowed not to give back the position, but because he wanted to dive behind KR to take the inside line at La Source, instead. Hardly a sign of a complete submission.

Had Hamilton slowed through the shortcut, as he should have (afterall he wasn't supposed to be there at all), then he would have surrendered 1) immediately and 2) completely... no foul. But instead he accererated and ran a drag race down the front stretch for several seconds to the next corner.

It is a judgment call by the stewards, for sure. But IMO, they made a gutsy decision to do the right thing.

Watch the replays...
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Old 09-07-2008, 07:18 PM
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The stewarts have set a very bad and dangerous precedent here, it is not up to them to intrepret to spirit of the rule just whether the rule was followed, he gave the position back and then passed him again. that is the rule.

further it had no bearing on the out come of the race as he and kimi passed each other again after these events.
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:35 AM
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wow this is so simple: Lewis missed the corner and then gave up the position back to Kimi, what more do they want. NEWS FLASH to the FIA...formula 1 is a race...don't kill the sport by favoring Ferrari

Hmmm remember the Massa pit accident in the last race...just $$$$ fine
Also in the french GP, Kovalainen received a five-place grid penalty for blocking Mark Webber in qualifying. Funny, Webber later said he wasn't blocked by Heikki
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:00 AM
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F1=Ferrari One

Watch this injustice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM

enough
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MB-BOB View Post
You fellas need to park your biases and watch the replays again... I have watched them several times.

Hamilton was trying to outbrake Raikkonen on the OUTSIDE before the Bus stop... never a good move, and usually a sign of desperation.

KR took his normal right hand apex going into the bus stop, with LH no further advanced than mid Ferrari. Well before Raikkonen took his normal left-hand apex at the corner, LH's front wing was out of KR's view. KR was totally within his right to take both apexes.

LH only took the lead when he diverted to the shortcut through the turn. A complete no-no. Still to KR's left, LH did not immediately gave back the position until several seconds later, when both cars were 150+ meters past the start finish line. The rules say you must give back the position IMMEDIATELY.

Instead, the millisecond LH's front wing cleared KR's rear wing (and at the start of the braking zone for La Source), Hamilton swerved within inches behind and to KR's right. In effect he did not surrender the position completely, but rather used the tailgate maneuver to slipstream Raikkonen.

Stated another way, it appeared that he slowed not to give back the position, but because he wanted to dive behind KR to take the inside line at La Source, instead. Hardly a sign of a complete submission.

Had Hamilton slowed through the shortcut, as he should have (afterall he wasn't supposed to be there at all), then he would have surrendered 1) immediately and 2) completely... no foul. But instead he accererated and ran a drag race down the front stretch for several seconds to the next corner.

It is a judgment call by the stewards, for sure. But IMO, they made a gutsy decision to do the right thing.

Watch the replays...
I've watched the sequence of events over & over. The only person with a serious bias here is you.

Hamilton does not deserve to be penalized.
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by FThornton666 View Post
Once again the stewards show clear bias towards Ferrari. What a horrible decision, especially in a section that was very wet. Hamilton was actually ahead of raikenon at this part of the track when he went wide, he did the right thing and let him go by. Absolutely pathetic way to get a victory from massa. Screw the FIA.
+1.... Bernie finds yet another way to screw McLaren.

I also watched the incident numerous times and it appears that Lewis slowed down within a reasonable period of time, and in an ideal location, to allow Kimi to get by, while not falling too far behind. It's a race, was he supposed to come to a full stop?

Great way to taint one of the best races in the last couple years.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MB-BOB View Post
You fellas need to park your biases and watch the replays again... I have watched them several times.

Hamilton was trying to outbrake Raikkonen on the OUTSIDE before the Bus stop... never a good move, and usually a sign of desperation.

KR took his normal right hand apex going into the bus stop, with LH no further advanced than mid Ferrari. Well before Raikkonen took his normal left-hand apex at the corner, LH's front wing was out of KR's view. KR was totally within his right to take both apexes.

LH only took the lead when he diverted to the shortcut through the turn. A complete no-no. Still to KR's left, LH did not immediately gave back the position until several seconds later, when both cars were 150+ meters past the start finish line. The rules say you must give back the position IMMEDIATELY.

Instead, the millisecond LH's front wing cleared KR's rear wing (and at the start of the braking zone for La Source), Hamilton swerved within inches behind and to KR's right. In effect he did not surrender the position completely, but rather used the tailgate maneuver to slipstream Raikkonen.

Stated another way, it appeared that he slowed not to give back the position, but because he wanted to dive behind KR to take the inside line at La Source, instead. Hardly a sign of a complete submission.

Had Hamilton slowed through the shortcut, as he should have (afterall he wasn't supposed to be there at all), then he would have surrendered 1) immediately and 2) completely... no foul. But instead he accererated and ran a drag race down the front stretch for several seconds to the next corner.

It is a judgment call by the stewards, for sure. But IMO, they made a gutsy decision to do the right thing.

Watch the replays...
MB_BOB,

how many pints of the kool-aid do you drink every day? This was such crap, I'm embarressed to be an F1 fan.

I had a complete set of paragraphs written from many replay watches. It doesn't matter. I don't drink the Kool-aid, and I can't convince those that use.

No matter, the better team will prevail. No matter the bending of rules, nor the obvious bias.

MB_BOB, cheers to a stolen win.

Ed
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MB-BOB View Post
Ah, so there is justice. Massa wins, Hamilton demoted 25 secs to third behind Heidfeld...

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...07182345.shtml
Even Scuderia Ferrari didn't lodge the protest.....

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43863

This was in plane sight, this year's F1 Phantom Punch.

Bravo F1, Bravo.

E
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MB-BOB View Post
I hate to see races end the way this one did. The FIA stewards are investigating the bus stop chicane incident (as they should). Raikkonen was simply taking his line as Hamilton decided to cram his car in there too, having to shortcut the chicane to make the pass.

He gave the spot back, but took nearly half the straight down to LaSource to do it, then jammed his way round the Ferrari again. The last two laps were truly unprofessional after this incident, which had to un-nerve both Raikkonen and Hamilton (otherwise he wouldn't have driven so stupidly).

Had Kimi finished the race, he would have a better leg to stand on, as Ferrari have filed a protest as well. I suppose the FIA will just slap Hamilton with a worthless 10-spot grid penalty at Monza. He should be DQ'd instead.

Hamilton is a good driver, but he is very stubborn (a kind way of saying childish).

You guys think the last 2 laps were exciting, but I think the first 2 laps (and the next 40) were better.
I could not disagree more.

Kimi closed the door and collided with Hamilton in the bus stop. He gave him no room and forced the issue. So instead of causing a race ending issue for both drivers Lewis went straight and then tucked in knowing he had violated the regualations and needed to check up. Data shows him lifting off and letting kimi pass as per the regulations. McLaren confirmed with race director CHARLIE WHITING regarding the situation right away and he said he felt they had conformed to the regulations. If Charlie is on their side I think this may just be over turned.

As for them driving like children for the rest of the race again thats a funny view. This is motorsports where you race to win. Both were trying to win and both chose to risk it on the primary tire instead of an inter like KUB who made the stop. They knew they had to make it last 2 more laps on the Primary tire and of course it will be like driving on ice. To say it was childish is to say phone it in and not try to win. Lewis wanted to win and Kimi had something to prove. And the outcome shows that Kimi pushed just that bit to hard. If you want to say people were childish look at the Willams that pulled out in front of Kimi and Lewis on the final Lap or Trulli who nearly caused a massive crash pulling in front of a train of cars after a spin.

If the rules say you have to give the spot back and he gave the spot back (proven by the telemetry and the fact that he was 6 kph slower at the start finish line -- not 2/3 of the way down the straight compared to Kimi) why did he get a 25 second penalty? He followed the rules and his actions were approved by the race director.

This is just further showing that the FIA wants the team in red to win at all cost. When the RED cars make a mistake they get a small slap on the wrist and a dont do it again but every time Mclaren tries to race for a win its taken away with grid spot penalties, fines, removal of points, disqualification.

I see not pushing at the end of the race as being bad for the sport. Competition between two equal cars is what people want to see. If this stands the FIA will lose some viewers in future events.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MB-BOB View Post
You fellas need to park your biases and watch the replays again... I have watched them several times.

Hamilton was trying to outbrake Raikkonen on the OUTSIDE before the Bus stop... never a good move, and usually a sign of desperation.

KR took his normal right hand apex going into the bus stop, with LH no further advanced than mid Ferrari. Well before Raikkonen took his normal left-hand apex at the corner, LH's front wing was out of KR's view. KR was totally within his right to take both apexes.

LH only took the lead when he diverted to the shortcut through the turn. A complete no-no. Still to KR's left, LH did not immediately gave back the position until several seconds later, when both cars were 150+ meters past the start finish line. The rules say you must give back the position IMMEDIATELY.

Instead, the millisecond LH's front wing cleared KR's rear wing (and at the start of the braking zone for La Source), Hamilton swerved within inches behind and to KR's right. In effect he did not surrender the position completely, but rather used the tailgate maneuver to slipstream Raikkonen.

Stated another way, it appeared that he slowed not to give back the position, but because he wanted to dive behind KR to take the inside line at La Source, instead. Hardly a sign of a complete submission.

Had Hamilton slowed through the shortcut, as he should have (afterall he wasn't supposed to be there at all), then he would have surrendered 1) immediately and 2) completely... no foul. But instead he accererated and ran a drag race down the front stretch for several seconds to the next corner.

It is a judgment call by the stewards, for sure. But IMO, they made a gutsy decision to do the right thing.

Watch the replays...
I have watched it so much im blue in the face.

http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option...361&Itemid=219

He gave the spot up asap. Should he put the thing in park and have a smoke before he rejoins the race? He lifted, tucked BEHIND the RED car then set up the pass. I dont see this so called delayed action on his part. Data cant lie.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by emrliquidlife View Post
MB_BOB,

how many pints of the kool-aid do you drink every day? This was such crap, I'm embarressed to be an F1 fan.

I had a complete set of paragraphs written from many replay watches. It doesn't matter. I don't drink the Kool-aid, and I can't convince those that use.

No matter, the better team will prevail. No matter the bending of rules, nor the obvious bias.

MB_BOB, cheers to a stolen win.

Ed
In the end McLaren will just have to do that much better and when they do win the season they can give the good old F U to the FIA and the nice friends from Italy. It will make the eventual outcome that much better.

From bob's thoughts racing should be a regulated sport where passing can only be done on the inside when nothing is at risk. And in the rain drivers should never press hard and try to win as that would be simply unbecoming of the sport. Maybe we should put big X's on the back of the cars who dont want to get passed in a risky spot such that we can just give them a polite point by. That would be much safer and clearly more dignified.

Lewis is the winner of that race fair and square. No one filed a complaint this time so clearly its just the the stewards trying to give the points to Felipe.

Regardless that race was sensational. Rain is always the great equalizer.
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Old 09-08-2008, 05:34 AM
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That was such BS !! the race was one of the best battle this season and LH came out on top.
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