Glyn M Ruck

Absolutely! - F1 is & should be the pinnacle of motorsport. As I said "I'm an F1 purist & believe it should always push the limits of technology."

That should include KERS as an option if a team can make it reliable & is prepared to tolerate the weight penalty.

On previous KERS implementation what amazed me was how often problems with the system related to harness trouble through the tub & suspension.

Anyway - What teams say they will do now & what actually appears on track in 2011 could vary vastly as we all know. They play endless games with one another.

I'm pleased to see that Bernie has been attending some Moto GP meets to see what has worked for them when it comes to global viewership improvements etc. It's probably pretty obvious vs. sterile F1 - Moto GP has a family following, less prima donnas’ & better rider accessibility. People have burnouts & get up to hijinks etc. without fear of retribution. The public like that. There is of course the Rossi phenomenon! F1 needs a Rossi & a Rossi that is allowed to be a Rossi.
He has done more single handedly for Moto GP popularity than anyone.

Glyn M Ruck

Agreed - But then I want to see Lewis as world champion again. He has suffered the car not being good enough & some errors of his own that he readily admits. However as a viewing public we expect him to try the move on Webber in Singapore etc. pity it failed.

I think we are really all agreeing violently with one another. We want good racing!

Nola

Huh? What ferrari driver on top at the final race? You need to explain that conspiracy dude.

I didn't notice the CF you refer to... in any case the safety car is controlled by race control... not the stewards. Stewards are only involved in investigating incidents and handing out penalties.

Glyn M Ruck

Trulli's car dumped half it's rear wing on the track when it broke.

F1Bobby

Should make it faster down the straights!

rockjock

Thenspeed channel guysnwere talking about it Nola-the steward at the final race with Alonso leading and the 7000 different outcomes before race start was ( maybe currently is?) a Ferrari driver....not a conspiracy-they use previous team drivers.

rockjock

That's an understatement.....

MB-BOB

I recall the driver on the panel last week was 5-time LeMans winner Emanuelle Pirro. Prior to that he drove 40 F1 starts with Benneton and Scuderia Italia (not Ferrari). But yes, he is Italian, and doubtless a Ferrari fan.

But the list of steward's advisors was compiled and scheduled FAR in advance, if not at the beginning of the season, from a diverse group of driver teams. When asked if he could be fair, Pirro made a very well received statement that said that he would (according to SPEED).

Did you r-e-a-l-l-y want at safety car on the last lap of the last race of the year? IIRC, the SC is brought out only if there is severe rain, or a major shunt that blocks the track, or comes to rest in a dangerous position that puts drivers and course workers at risk. They don't deploy the SC for bits of CF wing contained to the middle of the 50-ft wide road... the cars were easily able to go around it.

Purists don't like the SC at all, and I think they use it too much already.

rockjock

You're correct Bob-Itallian and a Scuderia driver nit Factory. Hells yes I wanted the SC out-if it was lap 5 it would have-safety is safety and shouldn't be questioned because there is only 2 or 1 lap left....thats the consistency that Id like to see from them.

97W202

u guys just sent me into a hour and a half whirl of readin all about senna's life. that guy is a hero man, u guys knew that his grave attracts more people than John F Kennedy, Marilyn Monroe and Elvis Presley combined ?

F1Bobby

Here's the deal on Senna.

Hopefully no one has posted it already!

http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-gear-senna-tribute_2073054.htm

Nola

So now you say not conspiracy?

Suspect of what? What you wrote accuses the FIA of conspiring to favor Ferrari, and now you heard the guy never even drove for Ferrari. At least back your own words dude.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes!

He bashed up his front wing as well!

Nola

While I agree that divergence in technology is cool, it is only exciting when it brings convergence in performance. Huge performance differentials bring about boring racing or championships decided in July, which is bad for Bernie's pockets. The other factor is rate of development... how can the innovator be "caught" by others in time for an exciting season?

So how do you make sure that technological innovation (divergence) and rate of development combine to bring convergence of performance in the long run, but within a season? I think that can only be accomplished through rules reset every so often... not a free-for-all approach.

Martinsvi

Senna was an hard competitor, but was no hero. He was even more mercenary than alonso is today. Schumacher was a chior boy compared to him. He cared nothing of team, team orders or having a teamate of equal orbetter capabilities. He persoanlly was reposnible for at least 2 drivers careers being ended by placing demands on the team that hamstrung the teamate. Was he sucessful yes, did he win may poles and races in his short career, yes. Hero..no.

He is deified by the Brazilian people, and that is why his grave is an attraction.

Martinsvi

I have no problem with the resetting the engine formula or the chassis formula every so often to reset or make folks think in a different way but, the constent neutering of the cars, the race tracks is what I dont care for. The real tracks are almost gone and the few that are left have been "tilked" into boredom. Yes he may have 1 exciting corner, but that is it. Manaco, Monza and Spa are all of the old tracks that are unchanged, Even silverstone is going to be reconfigured.

As far as the technoledgy divergence, it happens everytime. They come out with the rules and the better teams with the better engineering have the ability to exploit the rules or the loopholes in them. You will always have 3 or 4 of the 13 teams who can barely cut it, and they will always be 1 or 2 generations behind the curve. The rules may make the curve more shallow so it doesnt show but the drivers and the real fans know what is happening.

Also if the rules werent as strict as they are now in the car design, they would be much closer than most think as the designers can look at another teams car and get an idea of their new development, and within the first half of the season almost everyone would incorporate what works and what doesnt would be cast aside.

The top teams will always be the top, because that is what they do. You will probably never see another season were 1 team won all the races but 1 that season or you may never see 1 driver be so dominant but there will always be a performance gap. The ban on testing in season hasnt saved any money, now the teams have developed hyper-expensive test rigs withcomputer simulations to test out new parameters, tey spend more and more in tunnel time and on computers looking at cfd models. Every attempt to control cost has had the opposite effect. It is like govt, the more the interfere the more expensive and the great the desparity.

MB-BOB

Once again we are on the same page. I watched Senna in real time throughout his career, so I’m not swayed by his post mortem legend, which seems to grow daily.

Senna was a brilliant driver and among the very best. I loved watching him race 10/10ths all the time. But there were times when you wondered if his brain was engaged. He made colossal errors when he did not need to do so.

As for caring nothing for teammates, his battles with Prost illustrate this well. At Suzuka in 1989, he tried a needless and desperate overtake at the chicane and wrecked both himself and teammate Prost with less than 3-5 laps left. This gave the championship to Prost (over Senna) on the spot, but that wasn’t Senna’s aim… Senna wanted to bully himself ahead.

The following year at Suzuka, Senna admitted to purposefully wrecking with Prost (now at Ferrari) at the high speed first corner after the start, simply to end the championship, this time with him ahead. He could have simply won the race to claim his championship, but he chose to get even/make a statement, whatever. Two separate incidents, both precipitated by Senna, the first arguably a racing accident, though needless, and the second a deliberate act that could have ended far worse.

Schumacher is known for engineering events to his advantage, such as stalling his Ferrari during qualifying to secure the pole at Monaco. And I never liked his purposeful squeezing of opponents at the start from Pole position, which seems to have now become standard practice in F1. But I don’t recall him purposely wrecking himself and others to get an advantage. (Someone correct me.)

I am surprised there isn’t a rule prohibiting passing in the pit road, for which Alonso would have been penalized for his stupid stunt at China this year.

Watch this bit of stupidity... http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcz...-passes-m_auto

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ma...***-19374.html

Think what would have happened to all the other drivers racing into the pits if he had wrecked both himself and Massa? No to mention taking out both Ferraris – a Cardinal sin. Pit entrances are narrow, and not part of the racing circuit. An accident here would have been blocked all drivers behind, race red-flagged (maybe?) All of it because the “Donkey” (nee A$$) wanted to beat Massa to the pit box, rather than queue behind him…

This bit of recklessness confirms Alonso as an arrogant, selfish, careless twit without regard for anyone else, including his own teammate… on par with Senna.

I also wonder what part Alonso (directly) played in Piquet’s deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore GP. So far, no evidence has been shown to suggest that anyone other than the team principals conspired the race-fixing crash. But certainly Alonso profited as the team intended, and I’m sure it hasn’t bothered him once.

Jury is still out on which was/is the more arrogant and selfish, Alonso or Senna. Schumacher ranks a poor third, IMO.

rockjock

I was stating the person is suspect-not the FIA. As I stated in an earlier post-Bob corrected me-he drove for Scuderia and is Italian-more than likely a Ferrari backer-

97W202

I dont know much about the guy I am just going off of what I read about him, was he responsible for both incidents?? yes..

since most of you are experts than youll also know that the reason he crashed (could of won without it) was because the president on f1 at the time had cheated him along with prost.

"Senna explained to the press his actions of the previous year in Suzuka. He maintained that prior to qualifying fastest, he had sought and received assurances from race officials that pole position would be changed to the left-hand, clean side of the track, only to find this decision reversed by Jean-Marie Balestre after he had taken pole.[42] Explaining the collision with Prost, Senna said that what he had wanted was to make clear he was not going to accept what he perceived as unfair decisions by Balestre, including his disqualification in 1989 and the pole position in 1990.[43] Prost would later go on record slamming Senna's actions as "disgusting" and that he seriously considered retiring from the sport after that incident."


He wasnt that bad, on anoter race he intentionally slowed his car down and let his teammate take the win as a thank you gesture.
Also the day of his death in his car was found an austrian flag which he was going to raise for Roland Ratzenberger.. I can argue this guy wasnt that bad.


EDIT: and just how he "ended" two peoples careers because he didnt want them driving with him prost had also put in a clause on his contract bannin senna from driving for williams at the time.

Glyn M Ruck

I rate Senna as the finest driver to date. Had he lived - Schumi would have won less titles. F1 was hugely boring for a long while after the death of Senna.

MB-BOB

Well, drivers do not dictate or negotiate with anyone regarding how the grid will line-up. Talk about arrogance...

FIA (Ballestre) > Rules > Local Race officials > Drivers

Ballestre, as I recall, was just enforcing the rules. At that time, repainting the grid overnight to reflect a staggered, left-hand pole position was impractical, even if there were legitimate reason to entertain Senna's request.

To this day, drivers argue over which side of the road should go to the pole sitter at several tracks. Except today, making changes would involve moving the grid box sensors in the road surface as well as repainting the grid boxes.

The bottom line is... Such changes (then and now) are not taken *****-nilly and are subject to the rules to remove doubt.

No one has suggested that Prost wasn't arrogant, too.

And no one is suggesting that Senna was a bad guy. The best drivers are (must be) supremely confident in themselves, and the line between confidence and arrogance can be blurry.

IMO, those who drive with the best 1) precision, 2) aggression and 3) a cool head get my vote over those who drive with 1) precision, 2) aggression and 3) their feelings (occasionally) on their sleeves.

97W202

Your not the only one glynn...

Senna is regarded as one of the greatest drivers in the history of Formula One.[2][3][4] In 2009, a poll of 217 current and former Formula One drivers chose Senna as their greatest Formula One driver, in a survey conducted by British magazine Autosport.

After Senna's death it was discovered that he had donated millions of dollars of his personal fortune (estimated at $400 million at the time of his death)[86] to children's charities, a fact that during his life he had kept secret.

EDIT: I am not defendng senna but I wouldnt say he wasnt a good guy/best driver either.

Glyn M Ruck

In the last survey of world Motorsport journalists - Senna was rated the finest driver ever.

He was a highly intelligent but intense individual. He did a lot of good in Brasil.

Martinsvi

You are right about the prost clause with williams..and that was because of the issues he had with senna at mclaren. Prost left Mclaren over senna, when he didnt have to. Williams had the option of telling prost that he could drive with senna or leave if they didnt like the conditions. If ferrari wasnt a upper mid tier team at the time he would have been perfect there, but he wouldnt have considered ferrari then as they were not the top of the heap.
Prost isnt the issue here either, I am not defending prost, I just wont buy into the "hero" status that is afforded him. I understand the mentality of those in the sport as I have apprenticed for an IMSA team when I was in college in Florida and I knew some of those drivers. (Schumacher when he went to ferrari it was still a team that was starting to ascend again. He personally had the team molded around him and his needs, his teamates reflected that and they changed when he was no longer satisfied with their support. He has exemplified the new era of f1 that I most dislike. But in spite of his shortcomings he took an uncompetitive car in the first 2 years there and won with it)

I can tell you that I saw the career of Derick Warwick end in f1 over senna and he was no threat to senna.
He may have been a charitable individual in his alter life away from the sport, but once again I stand by my accessment of the man.

Martinsvi

I agree with that. Schumacher wasnt intimidatecd by senna like many of the others. Damon Hill was never the equal of schumacher in the intimidation area. Mika Hakkennen was the last racer that was the equal of schumacherin skill and nerve, he never gave an inch to schumi.