Frank Wiesmann

A friend of mine warned me about oils like Mobil 1 with a Ow or 5w viscosity and said any car, new or old that uses these is bound to need an overhaul after 60,000 miles. He said they recommend it to boost performance and fuel economy and neglect the engine lubrication because they don't care about what happens to it after the warranty is over. He told me to use 10W-60 or similar.
Is this true?

Lynn

No it is not true. Do you think Mercedes would sell many cars if they had a reputation for engines which blow up after 60,000 miles? MB depends upon repeat customers, and that would be the end of repeat customers.

You can use 10-W60 in your engine, but not if the ambient air temperature falls below -4 degrees F (-20 C).

Use what MB recommends in the "Factory Approved Service Products" booklet. They know more than your friend about what is right for their cars

gator

Agree with Lynn.

If you are still concerned, Mobile 1 makes a 15W-50 that is on the factory approved list.

patrick

Is this the "Tech Talk"-forum or is it more "café"-talk?

Bora20

We run Mobil 1 0w-40 in our Benz.

E55MKB

Mobil 1 0W-40 is the factory fill for all current Mercedes and Porsche as it come from the factory.

Although M1 0W-40 is not yet widely available as other M1 viscosity, I just noticed last labor day weekend that my local Autozone is already carrying the quart size M1 0W-40 container.


Just as a sidenote here:

Current Honda is factory filled with non-synthetic 5W-20 oil from the factory

patrick

This all depends on which breaking-in procedure new engines have already got at the factory. Different manufacturers have different procedures.
Mercedes engines already have got most of the breaking in at the factory, so another type of oil during its first kilometers (/miles) is not required.
Patrick

Lynn

patrick, could you tell us how MB breaks in the engines at the factory, please? I can't believe that thousand upon thousands of engines are put on engine dynomometers for this.

E55MKB

Patrick:

I am not saying that Honda is using the 5W-20 non synthetic to break in the engine. The 5W-20 is the recommended viscosity for all season for newer Honda engine.

With regard to MB already have their engine broken in from the factory, not really the case. The newer engine comes with a much tighter spec/dimension which reduce the significance of strict breaking in procedure.
In other words, less breaking in is required

It used to be only AMG engine uses M1 oil, but starting year 2000/01 when MB put the oil quality sensor on everyone of its engine. They change to M1 on all engine. Main reason is the oil sensor uses conductivity/resistance measurement of the oil for input. Use of the M1 is to make sure measurement is not affected by difference in base conductivity number as given by different brand/base of oil.

Porsche is the only manufacturer which AFAIK dyno every new engine they manufacture. Even that does not really qualify as fully breaking in the engine

phungpho

In Formula 1, McLaren Mercedes uses Mobil1 0-40W. Nasa also uses it for the space shuttle !!!
The 0-40W is the best grade to protect your engine.
I currently use 0-40W for my Benz and 0-30W for my Honda Civix.


E55MKB, It's good to know that Autozone now carries the Mobil1 0-40W. Thanks.

V12BIGBODY

I use Quaker state 20/50 year round on all 4 of my benz's. Wouldn't trade it for the world I don't care what some young ***** at the dealer say's!! Or what the any book say's. I've been using that for 10yrs now never a problem.:p :p

Darkmann

E55MKB, I called MBUSA tech department and asked them this same question. They told me that only the E55 (I was asking about the '02 E-Class) comes with M1 factory fill and that the rest of the MB line come with a synthetic blend. I asked again for clarity and they repeated that the non AMG versions do not have a fully synthetic oil in them from the factory. I asked why and they told me that it was due to break-in. Basically, the fully synthetic oil is too smooth to allow proper break-in within the first few thousand miles. I couldn't get the synthetic blend brabd though!!!

E55MKB

Here is a quote from the MB Technical Service Bulletin (from ALLDATA):


Synthetic Oil Recommendations - For FFS Vehicles

Date: February 2001

Order No.: S-SI-00.40/71

Supersedes:

Group: 00
SUBJECT:
ALL MODELS
NEW SYNTHETIC OIL RECOMMENDATIONS FOR FSS EQUIPPED VEHICLES

Mercedes-Benz USA has changed the engine lubricant recommendation for FSS-equipped vehicles: effective immediately, Mercedes-Benz only recommends the use of MB approved synthetic motor oil for all vehicles equipped with the Flexible Service System as of Model Year 1998.

Mercedes-Benz recommends the use of Mercedes-Benz approved synthetic engine oils listed in the Mercedes-Benz oil specification sheet 229.1 or 229.3 which also meet ACEA A3/B3 and/or API SH/SJ classifications. Oil specification sheets 229.1 and 229.3 for worldwide use can be found on the Workshop Information System (WIS). If a MB approved or ACEA A3/B3 quality engine oil is not available, then an API quality engine oil meeting the API SH/SJ classification can be used. Optimal engine performance of FSS equipped vehicles can only be maintained with the continued use of MB approved synthetic oil.

Each Retailer will receive under separate cover a copy of an updated "Factory Approved Service Products" booklet which reflects the recommended use of only Mercedes-Benz approved synthetic motor oil for all vehicles equipped with Flexible Service System. The Factory Approved Service Products booklet lists recommended synthetic oils which are available in the USA. All retailers are requested to immediately institute this transition from standard mineral oil to approved synthetic oil on all Mercedes-Benz vehicles equipped with FSS technology.

All owners of MY98 to MY01-to-date vehicles will receive notice from MBUSA advising of this change in recommended engine lubricant.

Clients owning MY00 and MY01-to-date Mercedes-Benz vehicles will further be informed that synthetic oil will be used as specified by the Flexible Service System and will be covered by the Mercedes-Benz Maintenance Commitment, at no expense to the client.

The Maintenance Commitment warranty claims submission process remains unchanged: Synthetic oil should be claimed in a local purchase format. (example: Engoil00550 with the respective quantity).
Copyright © 2002 ALLDATA LLC


Darkman:

Kinda weird for MBUSA to say that they use synthetic blend for the non AMG car since it is for breaking in reason. They should have just put non-synthetic, it that was the purpose.

My MB dealer also confirmed that they only stock M1 0-40 as lubricant in their shop.

Please realize since the definition of synthetic blend is kinda loose, for a consumer standpoint, you don't really know how much synthetic is in the oil compared to non-synthetic. Not mentioning the advent of mineral based "synthetics" (hydrocracked/type III) such as Castrol Syntec, Quaker State synthetic, Penzoil synthetic etc..etc. Synthetic oil used to be either PAO (Poly-Alpha Olefin) or PE (Poly-ester) based. Redline and Motul still claim to be 100% ester based. Amsoil, Royal Purple are PAO based. M1 I believe is a blend of the above.

V12BIGBODY

Yada Yada Yada!!!!! Give me a break!!! What are you retarded?
All that babbling on about what MB (** recommends**) They only say that so you'll use their products. Motor oil is motor oil there may be a few differences between them all, but over all there all the same. The most Important thing about oil is to change it every 3k miles or 3months. And you'll never have a problem no matter what brand it is or the weight of it.

E55MKB

V12BIGBODY, you sounds more like the one babbling.

With the advent of higher performance engine with tighter tolerance, you can see the tendency of using lighter oils. One of the reason is to make sure lubrication gets to the parts, especially when the lubricant have not achieve its proper operating temperature.

Premature failure of engine on the E46M3, turbo failure on the newer Audi S4 is just examples how the manufacturer tried to reduce potential problem by issuing"service bulletin" the use of lighter weight lubricant (though on those above cases those are not the only solution).

The fact that you never had any problem using 20W-50 in your car for 10 years might show how good you take care of your car. Unfortunately car manufacturer have to deal with driver that might not wait for the car to reach proper operating temperature before doing maximum acceleration on the car.

In addition, good synthetic has been proven to be able to withstand higher temperature (as in heat soak on the turbo bearings when a hot engine is shut down).

On my MB I just follow the FFS before changing oils. On my other cars I use synthetics and don't change until 7500 miles.

The MB recommended synthetic oil is not only M1, but also include Castrol, Valvoline and several others if I am not mistaken.


Yada, yada, yada

:p

patrick

The MB engines are not really broken in at the factory, but the cylinders get a special coating (I hope this is proper English) that makes breaking-in, and the use of special kinds of oils because of this breaking-in procedure not necessary anymore.

All engines are first filled with M1.
This information does not come from Alldata or so, but from MB instructors who visit the factories in Germany regularly.

Patrick

marauder

Are you serious? The brand doesn't matter? Sure there are some brands which are probably interchangeable without noticable or maybe even measurable difference, but the oil weight matters! The M3 engine failures have been mentioned and here's a point to consider: BMW has used 5W-30 motor oil in their engines for a while. The new M3 motor is now required to get 10W-60 oil -- a substantial change that surprised a lot of people. They didn't put in that requirement because they were bored with the old oil.

V12BIGBODY

Yes your right I'm babbling on, about what?? My comments are short and sweet your going on and on about nothing. You say you change your oil every 7500 miles on your cars. Right ?? How smart are you?? Everyone knows that you change it every 3k no matter what you drive, synthetic or not. How many benz's have you had in your life?? I'm sure it's not as many as me. I drove 6 of them off the show room floor and never worried about what kind of oil was in it or what I used. It's always been quaker state 20/50 yr round every 3k miles. That's just my opinion but over the course of 15yrs I put at least 1million miles on different MB's with that oil with not one problem!! I even had my dealer change the oil on some of my cars and that's what I asked to be put in and I never got a comment or a funny look about it. See the difference between me and you is I have real world experience with these cars and this topic and you are reading this crap out of a magizine or listening to others who are just as dumb as you. Your f--king with one of the best buddy !!! You can't hang with me. Go read your road and track mags!



00 G 500 (just pick up in Germany)
99 ML 320
96 S 600 V12 BIG BODY
88 260 E
71 250 C

E55MKB

Just like the Eveready bunny! Keeps on (babbling) going and going and going.

Hey V12 bigbody:

Can you count? You said six, you only list 5 MBs on your list.

BTW any fast one???????

V12BIGBODY

Yes I can count. I listed 5 because that's all I own right now. The 5 I listed some of them I didn't drive off the lot. (250c) I had many other Mb's in my life. Those are just the ones I own today. And I would say the 600 is some what fast. Definitly not as fast as your E55 but mine is still a 600.

marauder

Synthetic oil can last longer than mineral oils, but that's not the point. If you change it every 3k miles, that's fine. It's not going to harm your engine -- you're probably changing it more frequently than you need to. In an ideal world, your engine would get new oil every day and it'd be free of contaminants. And with 60k miles per year, 20 oil changes is a lot. Maybe it's low cost insurance to make sure your engine runs fine, but it seems like it's overkill to me.

Just because you haven't had an engine problem with your cars doesn't mean that oil weight doesn't matter, particularly in other motors. If you're spending so much money on changing your oil so often, why not pick the correct oil weight? Or rather, do you have a specific reason why you're using 20/50? Is it out of personal experience or some technical reason that you've found? Maybe it's just cheaper? There must be a good reason why you're potentially voiding your engine warranty.

I say pick the brand that you prefer and change the oil as often as you can afford it, but pick the right oil weight!

patrick

@ E55MKB:

With some people it is better to ignore them.
Just do not react!

Patrick

V12BIGBODY

Finally a decent comment. Marauder you have some good points with the oil. 20 changes might seem excessive but I feel that it's just right for me. Most of the time I change my own oil and do basic mantainace myself at 3k miles my oil is fairly black and it's used I feel that I would rather do it more often then less often. I had a 93 300ce when I sold her she had 343k miles. I can't say that all those oil changes got me so many miles out of her but it sure didn't hurt. The 20/50 weight is what my MB at the time recommended for higher milege cars. So that's what I used and now it's kinda just routine for me. And instead of buying 5 different kinds of oil for all my cars I just buy a few cases of the quaker state 20/50 and just use that all the time. Life made simple!! As far as voiding my warranty how are they going to know what kind of oil is in my car?? I have to say at least your a nice guy, the E55 guy is just jealous. It's probally his first benz and now he thinks he's a hot shot and a know it all because he can make a car payment. It's just a car beat the sh-t out it and get another one. It's only a machine. E55 you shouldn't hate on me. You don't even know me! But I'll take a used 600 over a brand new E-class any day. How's that leg room in the back seat??? A little tight huh sucker

marauder

Ok, so it sounds like your oil habits are:
a) frequent changes for insurance
b) keep the same oil for all the cars because it's easy
c) hasn't shown to be harmful so far

Sounds simple enough to me. I was wondering if there was some very specific reason that you went with the odd oil weight.

I will warn you, however, that if you ever get some of the other cars where the engine seems to be undergoing some very high stresses (M3 engine comes to mind), I would stick as closely as possible to the manufacturer's warnings. They probably won't know that you have a different oil in there, but you wouldn't want your engine to start having serious problems at 100,000 miles instead of the 250,000+ miles you've been seeing.

V12BIGBODY

Yes you got it. That's pretty much how I feel about it. (abc) You know something I really don't have a very specific reason to use that oil. Do you really think that 20/50 weight is that odd?? I mean I've been using that oil for years and at this point I don't even think about anymore, should I? You got me thinking!! But come on I have proven facts that, that oil works for hundreds of thousands of miles how could I be doing something wrong?? Maybe I am I would really like to know. The S 600 has been on that oil since day 1 and she is still as smooth as ever I feel that if it's good enough for her it's got to be good enough for the rest.
But please tell me if you really have facts on my errors. Thanks


BTW I don't think I change the oil for insurance reasons I just feel that when it's black just change it, for me that happens to be every 3k miles. I'm a creature of habit what can I say.