Rattle @ Startup Revisited
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Rattle @ Startup Revisited
My 02 2.3 liter will rattle at start up if not driven for more then a week. I have read about SC pully being the problem. What I did to try and find my problem was to have my wife start my car while I listened for were the rattle came from. I had my left hand on the front of the Valve cover and just as the engine started the rattle cam and went within 2-3 seconds. Now what happened was that I could feel the timing chain hitting the underside of the valve cover. It will only do it when left sitting and will not happen if driven daily. What can be the problem, the adjuster or maybe the variable valve timing device that is only on the intake cam ??? Hepl
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Another theory
I have been looking through the forum and someone has mentioned the Mobil 1 0W40 oil. This makes sence that it bleeds back down but why the chain noise 
unless hydrolic pressure works on the intake cam for the Variable Valve Timing and the lack of pressure makes the intake cam give slack to the chain between the two cams and it bounces off the top of the Valve cover????
unless hydrolic pressure works on the intake cam for the Variable Valve Timing and the lack of pressure makes the intake cam give slack to the chain between the two cams and it bounces off the top of the Valve cover????
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From: Shotts,Scotland.
1995 c220 auto
The only variable in the timing chain train which could allow slack in the chain as you describe, is the chain tensioner.
If the chain tensioner detent spring is faulty it may allow the tension to back off the chain as the oil pressure falls.
If the chain tensioner detent spring is faulty it may allow the tension to back off the chain as the oil pressure falls.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Rattle
I have been away for 9 days and first thing I did was start my C230. This time the noise did not seem to come from the timing chain area of the front part of the valve cover. I had my hand on the same area as before and did not feel any chain slap but did hear machanical valve train noise for 2-3 seconds until the oil pressure built up. Wish someone knows what the bulliten says on the start up rattle.
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Finally
Thanks Mark, I will go to the dealer today. I was hoping someone would tell me something about my problem. I thought that the 0w40 was bleeding out and I would have to go the a heavier weight oil. Hope my dealer knows something about the Cam advance. I'll get back to the forum with my results.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Poor Responce
Well, I've been to my dealer and got what I expected, nothing. The service technician basically told me to check it out with head office, ha ha. Not, I'll look into it Mr. for you and get back to you as soon as possible. I would expect this from GM or Ford but not from MB. I now must try contacting MB Canada. I'll also try MB USA to see if they can tell me what is on the TSB on Rattle at start-up
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Waiting
It took awhile but I did get a call from MB Canada and now must wait to hear from a Technician about my Rattle. I do want to know what the TSB says and hope I get an answer from them!
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Dublin, OH
05 ML350, 85 300D
It is bulletin # PB05.20/13a- it says replace both cam adjusters-
new parts are green color coded
PN#- 271 050 13 47 (intake), 217 050 11 47 (exhuast, 271 050 01 71 (2- center bolts).
Came out Oct 2004, revised Juy 2005 with new part numbers
It only pays like 3 hrs, so that may have something to do with the tech not hearing it!!
new parts are green color coded
PN#- 271 050 13 47 (intake), 217 050 11 47 (exhuast, 271 050 01 71 (2- center bolts).
Came out Oct 2004, revised Juy 2005 with new part numbers
It only pays like 3 hrs, so that may have something to do with the tech not hearing it!!
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
02 Model
My Car is a 2.3 liter not a 1.8 with Variable Valve timing on both intake and exhaust. The 2.3 only has it on the intake side. So is that bulletin for the newer 1.8's ?
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From: Dublin, OH
05 ML350, 85 300D
Done lots of these on 230s- you only change the one, obviously..actually, come to think of it- I just copied off the bulletin, I've never seen an exhuast adjuster changed. Without going back to look at it- I think it applies to both engines.
Where are you in Ontario? I started with MB in Toronto, at the old Yorkville store, and I know a lot of the guys have scattered, maybe a phone call can help you get your adjuster replaced..
Where are you in Ontario? I started with MB in Toronto, at the old Yorkville store, and I know a lot of the guys have scattered, maybe a phone call can help you get your adjuster replaced..
Last edited by MBTech21; Jun 24, 2006 at 07:03 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Adjuster
I live just outside of TO in Hampton, about an hour away from TO. I think you are right about the adjuster because it is hydrolic and must bleed down when the car sits for awhile. I have heard lifter noise in other cars but this is not just lifter noise but clatter. A bit scary when your head is under the hood. I am waiting for a phone call from a Brent Pruce of MB Canada. I hope he knows about it!! I will keep you informed, many thanks for the info.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 86
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Waiting
Well, it has been two weeks now and " NO " call from MB Canada. Some customer relations they have!! No problem though because I wouldn't buy another MB product. I will call them again to get an answer for the intermitent problem at start-up. I have been driving the car more lately and it doesn't do it unless it sits for more then a week.
Super Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 755
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From: USA
LS7 powered Corvette
They have updated adjuster for both the 111 and 271 engine. The 111 only has the adjuster on the intake camshaft, the 271 has them on both cams. There happen to be bulletins for both engines and they should have no problem fixing it for you. The only other thing that could cause that "slack" in the chain is the hydraulic tensioner. I have done a set on the 271 and replaced one on the 111.
Almost a Member!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 30
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From: Columbia, MO
cold start rattle
I took my 2002 C230K with M111 engine to the dealer last week for this problem. They heard the noise, checked and gave me a DSB from MB that said this was no problem. The cam chain tensioner was bleeding down after sitting. I do not have the DSB number with me, but I can post it if needed. The noise sounds horrible but at least I have it on record that it exists while still under warranty.
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Adjuster
I finally got a call from my dealer and will be taking the car in next week. They said that they would change the adjuster and see if that would solve my problem. The service guy didn't promise anything but he said he would try to help solve the problem. The rattle does come from the Valve train and it came from the chain area once and the next time from the valve area. The tensioner for the chain is not hydrolic I think and if the chain slackened enough to rap under the valve cover, it might have been because of the intake cam Variable adjuster. I wonder whem MB started to use this Variable adjuster on the 2.3 engine? I know this engine has been used for some years now.
I know this engine has been used for some years now.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Car Back
I just got my car back and have been told they changed the whole Cam adjuster, not just a Cam bolt. It was a big job as they even replaced Antifreeze. I don't know what had to come off to need coolant unless the thermostat had to be removed to get at the timing chain. I wont know if it works unless I let the car sit for a few days. My AC had to be deoderized at the same time because of the musty smell, the second time for this. Next time it will be my problem, no warranty. The car runs great and it has no ill affects.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Still there
Well, I just thought I'd let you know that after my Dealer put in a new Cam adjuster the rattle at start up is still there after the car sits for 5 or more days. I wanted to know what would happen so I didn't drive it from Sunday to Friday. The noise did seem to come fron the cam chain area this time as I had my hand on the Valve cover. Last time it seemed to come from the valves. I think it is a bleed down condition that is not repairable and is a design flaw. As soon as oil gets up to pressure the noise goes away. Funny that it didn't do it the first year and only did it maybe twice the second year of ownership. As I have said, if I start it every day there is no noise.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Dealer Called
I just got a call from my dealer. They now want the car for a week and will have a Rep. from MB Canada there at start-up. Not that they don't believe me but are not sure what to do next. I did say that I agreed that you just can't replace parts without knowing what to replace but the car did not have this sound at start-up the first year and only did it on rare occasion the second year. What would cause it?? I did switch from Factory oil to Quaker State 5w40 the second year and 0w40 Mobil 1 the third year till now. I also was told that 0w40 is a fix for rattle at start-up to get oil up top faster. Any ideas out there??? By the way, My C230 only has 19,000 kilometers and has had 4 oil changes so no sludge build. I never ever just drove it short distances.
By the way, My C230 only has 19,000 kilometers and has had 4 oil changes so no sludge build. I never ever just drove it short distances.
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
What To Do ???
I have been thinking about this and wonder, what next?? My dealer says to bring my car in and leave it so they can hear my rattle. They also say they have done the TSB on the Cam Adjuster and are not sure what would cause the noise. So if they hear it, what will they do? I expect nothing. The top end of the engine is bleeding down. This happens to some car I am sure but fuuny thing is it didn't do it the first year of ownership and only did it on rare occasion the second and third year. Is there a valve that might be getting weak or something causeing the leak down or is it the 0W40 oil being so thin that it is getting away down to the oil pan. Synthetic oil is slippery stuff and I would think a 5W 40 or maybe a 5W50 might help stop it from bleeding away. Mobil 1 now has a 5W50 available that meets MB 229.3 specs. and am thinking of trying it. Anybody have any ideas?? Any Tech guys have any experience with this problem on the 2.3 L kompressor???
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Car Back Now
I was there when they started up my car and yes it did rattle as usual. The shop foreman, a young knowledgable guy said yes it is a bleed down issue and there is no fix for it. It does happen in some other models and poses no real damage to the car. It only happens to my car when it sits for a week without driving it and only lasts for a second or two. I will try a thicker oil instead of the 0w40 I am using. Mobil now has a 5w50 that is MB 229.3 approved.
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02' C230k Sport Coupe
Well bud, that sucks. I have the same rattle, not that long or noticeable but is an everyday deal, is like you can tell when is warming up, sounds like if there is a component hitting something, or a valve... who knows, what I know is that I don't have warranty so I'm SOL. BTW, Mobil 5w50 is approved for mercedes BUT is not approved for our model... The only one should be 0w40. There are some list somewhere (I really forgot where) that shows that is BS that 229.3 is approved like the 0w40. Anyway, my 2 cents... As far as I know is only oil.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ontario, Canada
C230 Coupe 2002
Wow
Hard to believe your car does it everytime you start it. First gen Miatas had start up bleed down in the valve train and some did it almost everytime they started but mine only did it on rare occasion and just before an oil change. Some guys even tried 15w40 to get rid of the bleed down and it did help.Our car can use 5w50 as long as it meets 229.3 testing. My car had 5w40 in it for the first two years. If you go by the manual then 5w50 is not mentioned but it can be used. My Miata with a 1.6 liter supercharged engine had 5w30 for 160,000 klms and then I switched to 10w30 til now at 230,000 klms and the car redlines at 7,000 rpm and has been to the rev limiter to many times to count so why does the C230 require special oil. The internals are no different then any other engine and the revs are lower at 6,000 rpms. We don't have autobahns here either. I think that MB wants us back to the dealership for service ( $$$$$ )!! Once out of warranty you can use the oil of choice and bleed down is not going away with an oil as thin as 0w40. MB must have made some mistakes in the design of the engine and we are stuck with it until we buy our next car or should I say our Toyota!!
Once out of warranty you can use the oil of choice and bleed down is not going away with an oil as thin as 0w40. MB must have made some mistakes in the design of the engine and we are stuck with it until we buy our next car or should I say our Toyota!!
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Joined: Jul 2011
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W203 C200 Kompressor
W203 C200 Kompressor 140,000km
My car was serviced with Castrol Magnatec 10/40W all it's life from MB
I recently changed to Nulon Full Synthetic 10/40W and have a cold start rattle.
Will be going back to the magnetec
Matt
My car was serviced with Castrol Magnatec 10/40W all it's life from MB
I recently changed to Nulon Full Synthetic 10/40W and have a cold start rattle.
Will be going back to the magnetec
Matt
