Lifetime transmission fluid
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
Lifetime transmission fluid
On another thread, a few of us are discussing MB transmission fluid replacement intervals. One guy says that Daimler claims it never needs to be replaced, and advises a change at 60,000 miles.
Another guy says that post-99 there is no drain plug in the torque converter, implying that there is no way to remove this fluid from there.
Could any of the technicians here please offer some feedback on these issues?
Thanks in advance,
M
Another guy says that post-99 there is no drain plug in the torque converter, implying that there is no way to remove this fluid from there.
Could any of the technicians here please offer some feedback on these issues?
Thanks in advance,
M
Last edited by Musikmann; Oct 19, 2006 at 06:09 PM. Reason: change
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From: Houston, TX
2015 E250D
true there is no more drain plug on the torque converter. A simple drain and fill on the tranny pan would suffice if done on regular intervals. Or you can get a flush which would do the entire system. If you plan to keep your car for a while then I would suggest regular changes on the tranny. I assume MB wants us to throw away our cars after the tranny dies and get a new one, hence the lifetime fluid.
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From: Jacksonville Florida
209/W210 Estate /W211 modded by MBENZNL
The (LIFETIME) Transmission Fluid is a Cash cow for Mercedes
Yes MB States that it NEVER needs to be changed....Til Its out of warranty...Then
Right out of Warranty...its done..(WELL DONE) and MBUSA does Not help with goodwill....Then MB sells you a Exchange Transmission
Yes The 2000 on Trans No Longer have a drain plug on the torqueconverter
The Spark Plugs are right up there on the list... Good for 100K?
Then The FSS that reminds one to change the oil at 15K
Its all about OVERALL maintence costs.....Hey It Looks good on Paper!
And Most Owners dont keep the car after the warranty is out...They just Lease another one
Yes MB States that it NEVER needs to be changed....Til Its out of warranty...Then
Right out of Warranty...its done..(WELL DONE) and MBUSA does Not help with goodwill....Then MB sells you a Exchange Transmission
Yes The 2000 on Trans No Longer have a drain plug on the torqueconverter
The Spark Plugs are right up there on the list... Good for 100K?
Then The FSS that reminds one to change the oil at 15K
Its all about OVERALL maintence costs.....Hey It Looks good on Paper!
And Most Owners dont keep the car after the warranty is out...They just Lease another one
Last edited by MARK CUMMINS; Oct 19, 2006 at 11:41 PM.
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2005 C Wagon (No snickering please!)
My understanding from reading "Basic Lubrication Theory" and "Friction and Wear of Materials" lends me to believe that the "magic fluid" you can only buy from DC works in concert with the clutch discs in the transmision to greatly reduce particles liberated from the friction surfaces. This reduction allows an extended drain interval.
Of course driving habits, tranmission temperature, and terrain cause wide variations in the need to change the fluid.
Of course driving habits, tranmission temperature, and terrain cause wide variations in the need to change the fluid.
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
My .02.....
I had my transmission oil analyzed at 99K miles. The result showed that the fluid was within all the different parameters used to judge the quality and effectiveness of the oil. Wear particles were consistent with the mileage on the transmission....no more, no less. I adhere to the FSS and also have had my motor oil analyzed. Wear particles and oil quality were far better than if dino oil was used. After 110K miles there is no perceptible oil usage between changes. My spark plugs at 100K miles looked hardly worn, even the original gap was still there. If you abuse your car then I would definitely alter the recommended service intervals. Otherwise I believe it's safe to trust the designers. I don't buy the conspiracy theories that say there is planned mechanical failure if you follow recommended service intervals. It is not in a manufacturer's interest to intentionally mislead a customer when the result could lead them to buy someone else's product.
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
Thanks for the feedback guys
Well, it seems that there are some differing opinions on this issue, but I really appreciate everyone's input.
FYI: I am a guy who could barely afford to buy a used Mercedes, and I have 20 more payments on this lovely beast before I own it. I'm also a bit OCD when it comes to my cars, and not hesitant to pay for their proper maintenance. At the same time, I don't like flushing money down the toilet.
I'm 3600 miles away from a "B" service (at approximately 60,000), and plan to have the transmission system flushed at that service, as a precaution.
One of the guys on that other thread recommended that I ask the technician if he found any metallic particles in my old fluid. I'm not sure what the benefit will be of a "look and see" analysis is, but I suppose it can't hurt to ask.
Cheers to all,
M
FYI: I am a guy who could barely afford to buy a used Mercedes, and I have 20 more payments on this lovely beast before I own it. I'm also a bit OCD when it comes to my cars, and not hesitant to pay for their proper maintenance. At the same time, I don't like flushing money down the toilet.
I'm 3600 miles away from a "B" service (at approximately 60,000), and plan to have the transmission system flushed at that service, as a precaution.
One of the guys on that other thread recommended that I ask the technician if he found any metallic particles in my old fluid. I'm not sure what the benefit will be of a "look and see" analysis is, but I suppose it can't hurt to ask.
Cheers to all,
M
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e300d
M, you're doing the correct thing to have it changed.
Don't "guess" via a visual inspection. Have a UOA performed for $20.
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
[QUOTE=uberwgn;1801954]Don't "guess" via a visual inspection. Have a UOA performed for $20.QUOTE]
I agree....you'll probably find 2 X the 'normal' amount of wear particles since that's how much longer than a 'usual' transmission fluid service cycle you've used it. Black oil?? My research finds that color has nothing to do with the lubricating properties of oil but chemical composition does. Also be aware that these particles that are being measured/counted are in minute quantities that don't affect the transmission, even at the elevated levels caused by long term fluid use. Look it up, don't trust/doubt me. The engineers aren't being stupid or sly, just practical. Welcome to the 21st century. Hopefully some day we'll have a sealed engine with lifetime miles!
I agree....you'll probably find 2 X the 'normal' amount of wear particles since that's how much longer than a 'usual' transmission fluid service cycle you've used it. Black oil?? My research finds that color has nothing to do with the lubricating properties of oil but chemical composition does. Also be aware that these particles that are being measured/counted are in minute quantities that don't affect the transmission, even at the elevated levels caused by long term fluid use. Look it up, don't trust/doubt me. The engineers aren't being stupid or sly, just practical. Welcome to the 21st century. Hopefully some day we'll have a sealed engine with lifetime miles!
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From: Boston, MA USA
03 E320 -wife's car now; 07 Porsche Boxster S - my toy
I had my transmission oil analyzed at 99K miles. The result showed that the fluid was within all the different parameters used to judge the quality and effectiveness of the oil. Wear particles were consistent with the mileage on the transmission....no more, no less. I adhere to the FSS and also have had my motor oil analyzed. Wear particles and oil quality were far better than if dino oil was used. After 110K miles there is no perceptible oil usage between changes. My spark plugs at 100K miles looked hardly worn, even the original gap was still there. If you abuse your car then I would definitely alter the recommended service intervals. Otherwise I believe it's safe to trust the designers. I don't buy the conspiracy theories that say there is planned mechanical failure if you follow recommended service intervals. It is not in a manufacturer's interest to intentionally mislead a customer when the result could lead them to buy someone else's product.
By the way, did your spark plugs come out fairly easy at 100K? I replaced mine at 52K (although they looked great) so I wouldn't have to deal with seized up plugs at 100K.
Regards,
paul...
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
I had my ATF analyzed around 54K miles and the insolubles were right at the limit -- I'm considering having the ATF flushed becasue of this at 70K (got 65K now).
By the way, did your spark plugs come out fairly easy at 100K? I replaced mine at 52K (although they looked great) so I wouldn't have to deal with seized up plugs at 100K.
Regards,
paul...
By the way, did your spark plugs come out fairly easy at 100K? I replaced mine at 52K (although they looked great) so I wouldn't have to deal with seized up plugs at 100K.
Regards,
paul...
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
Fluid analysis
Thanks to the guys for the later replies also. I'm now 100% convinced that it's going to be at least new ATF at 60k, maybe a flush too. I trust the service writer I deal with at my dealer (at least as far as him conferring with the tech that does the work). Whether it 'looks dirty' or not, I'll have a bottle with me and ask for some.
I've never had any auto fluids professionally analyzed, so I have a couple of questions:
1) How large a sample do they need?
2) Are there any recommedations as to where to go for this?
Thanks in advance for any further information,
M
I've never had any auto fluids professionally analyzed, so I have a couple of questions:
1) How large a sample do they need?
2) Are there any recommedations as to where to go for this?
Thanks in advance for any further information,
M
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
4 oz. http://www.blackstone-labs.com for the free kit to collect and send the sample. Well worth it for real peace of mind. It not only tells you how your fluid is holding up but also your engine. They can tell from the amount of wear particles if you have excess wear in different parts of the engine or trans by the particle type.
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2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
mleskovar
4 oz. http://www.blackstone-labs.com for the free kit to collect and send the sample. Well worth it for real peace of mind. It not only tells you how your fluid is holding up but also your engine. They can tell from the amount of wear particles if you have excess wear in different parts of the engine or trans by the particle type.
I just ordered the free kit, it says to expect it in 2-3 weeks, which is well ahead of when I'm having the fluid changed. I might also send them some engine oil at some point, but it sounds like this will 'tell the tale' from your explanantion.
M
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I have used Blackstone Labs for years on lighting generators, and their competent analysis has saved me bundles on repairs suggested by mechanics based on their visual observation of the lubricating oils.
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From: Motor City
95 E320 Cabriolet, 108K
Your first fluid change is the most important. There's a lot of break-in debris generated early in the life of the transmission - not so much later. It's good to get this contaminant debris out. Despite a few success stories of long-lifed fluid, I would still use 50K fluid changes for your transmission. Why chance expensive transmission repair (or replacement) for the sake of a $200-$300 service?... less if you DIY.
I'm guessing these transmissions can't go more than 150K on the original transmission fluid. I'd be surprised if they did.
I'm guessing these transmissions can't go more than 150K on the original transmission fluid. I'd be surprised if they did.
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
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From: Boston, MA USA
03 E320 -wife's car now; 07 Porsche Boxster S - my toy
My insolubles were at trace. I rarely push my shifts to the upper end of the rpm range nor force it into a downshift more than a gear. Do you drive yours hard? An '03 320......5 speed, right? Getting the plugs in/out was easy once I got the right combination of socket extension lengths. Getting the plug boots off and then back on without forcing/damaging wires was the hard part. Bosch says they use a plating to stop the seizure, and I believe it. I still put a swipe of anti seize on the new plugs though.
For the spark plug boots, MB has a 17mm open end wrench that has an offset bend on it so you can pry the boot off with the wrench against the valve cover. I used a plain flat 17mm and didn't have any problems. I also believe Bosch on the plug plating, but I still used anti seize -- we didn't go wrong with that. I once saw a plummer working on threaded water pipes who put thread compound and teflon tape on the joints -- same idea!!
Regards,
paul...
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03 E320 -wife's car now; 07 Porsche Boxster S - my toy
Regards,
paul...
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
Star magazine article
I was at the dealer today for another purpose, but I found an experienced tech to ask about the transmission oil issue. He, and the service manager, both agreed that it should be changed, but were vague about what that interval ought to be.
I asked the tech about the window, through which the sensor sees the tranny rotation. He said, that in his opinion, that only occurs in extreme cases. He followed that with "if you are going to keep your car, flush and change the fluid."
I asked the tech about the window, through which the sensor sees the tranny rotation. He said, that in his opinion, that only occurs in extreme cases. He followed that with "if you are going to keep your car, flush and change the fluid."
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04 C320 Coupe MT
I was at the dealer today for another purpose, but I found an experienced tech to ask about the transmission oil issue. He, and the service manager, both agreed that it should be changed, but were vague about what that interval ought to be.
I asked the tech about the window, through which the sensor sees the tranny rotation. He said, that in his opinion, that only occurs in extreme cases. He followed that with "if you are going to keep your car, flush and change the fluid."
I asked the tech about the window, through which the sensor sees the tranny rotation. He said, that in his opinion, that only occurs in extreme cases. He followed that with "if you are going to keep your car, flush and change the fluid."
So what changed? The person paying for the maintenence!! I'll have to look for the document and see if I can post it.
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
mbbodytech
One interesting thing about all of this - when MB stopped paying for service, the service sheet was revised to say that the transmission fluid should be changed after 40K (or maybe it was kilometers, in that neighborhood at least) and then it's good for life.
So what changed? The person paying for the maintenence!! I'll have to look for the document and see if I can post it.
So what changed? The person paying for the maintenence!! I'll have to look for the document and see if I can post it.
Thanks for your input,
Musikmann
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From: Vacaville, California
1964 230SL, 1968 280SE Coupe, 1999 SLK230 Sport, 2000 C230
Transmission Service
I have a 99 slk. My car had 102,000 miles on it when my mercedes service advisor suggested I have my transmission serviced. I thought it would be a good idea and allowed him to proceed. The dealership flushed the transmission and refilled it and performed whatever else they do durring a transmission service. About 500 miles after having this performed my transmission came apart internally completely distroying it resulting in a more than $6,500.00 bill and mercedes would not take any responsibility.
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2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
cakris78
There was another poster who wrote that his transmission was never the same after his service, but I don't remember where I saw that post.
The consensus of opinion is still that these transmissions need some kind of service, at X number of miles. The opinion I have formed after reading quite a bit on this is: if possible, a complete gravity drain is the way to go. A lot of people feel that a flush will dis-lodge a lot of "gunk" that is better left where it lies.
Welcome to the forum!
Musikmann
