NEW BMW X5 M 507hp or ML63 AMG?
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Almost a Member!
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Germany
Lambo Murcielago `06, Bentley Continental FS Mulliner `06
NEW BMW X5 M 507hp or ML63 AMG?
I've ordered my ML63 AMG before 3 Weeks and I'm thinking to cancel it cause i see this
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...bs?ext_index=0
and i don't think it's taking so long that this X5 M is available here in Germany
They are writing under the Pictures that it has a V10 from the M5 with 507hp
and it's hitting the 100km/h mark under 5 seconds but they'r not sure.
so what do you think of this X5 M ?
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...bs?ext_index=0
and i don't think it's taking so long that this X5 M is available here in Germany
They are writing under the Pictures that it has a V10 from the M5 with 507hp
and it's hitting the 100km/h mark under 5 seconds but they'r not sure.
so what do you think of this X5 M ?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,146
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From: L.A., CA
'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
I call BS. The V10 insn't suited to an SUV and they will simply massage the 4.8i to a higher hp or bore it out to 5 liters so it akes 400bhp like the old M5 V8. Motorsport worked on the 4.6iS and 4.8iS but will not hand over an M-specific engine as it goes against the brand. See if I'm wrong.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 259
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From: Vancouver
06 CLS55, 07 997TT, 07 ML63, 10 X6M, 11 Alpina B7, 12 997TTS, 13 G63, 13 MP4-12C
I am with Carl, the V10 just don't produces enough torque for a heavy truck like X5, it barely has any low-end grunt so if it were to be installed in the X5, it might take forever to get going.
I don't have a link handy, but I do recalled reading about the X5M, it would be mostly a cosmetic upgrade, wheels and bumpers, with a slight bump on hp from the V8.
I don't have a link handy, but I do recalled reading about the X5M, it would be mostly a cosmetic upgrade, wheels and bumpers, with a slight bump on hp from the V8.
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What I find
I know for a fact that the X5 will NOT have a V10, it will have a Bi-Turbo V8 and be badged a 4.8is or a 5.0is. The X6, will have an M version and be the MX6 or somthing to that affect. I have no figures on power and torque.
As far as when this will happen, I think BMW only knows. I would venture to guess not at least till March of 2008 or September 2008 as a 2009 Model Year.
As far as when this will happen, I think BMW only knows. I would venture to guess not at least till March of 2008 or September 2008 as a 2009 Model Year.
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Los Angeles
Current - '06 E55, '07 ML63, '08 997T cab; Past - Maserati Spyder, F348ts, F355 F1 Spider
Yup, SUVs need twist more than bhp
I agree with the 2 gents. Heavy SUVs (ladder frame trucks or even unibody ones) invariably have torque coverter automatics. Coupled to AWD, they really need low end torque. In fact, I wish I could swap the engines in my E55 and ML63. The 5000 odd lb SUV could use the 516 lb-ft the 5.4 kompressor makes at ~2600 rpm. Coversely, the E55 has major trouble harnessing that low end twist. I get either tire smoke or ESP intervention when gunning it from a standstill. The 6.2 atmospheric motor with more progressive power deliver allows more of it to be put down thru 2 wheels. I really dislike the E63 wheels, unfortunately. Some nice customs wheels by Brabus, maybe Cargraphic, or HREs as on my Maserati will enhance the E63 look, IMHO.
In favor of choosing the ML63: other than being one of the quickest SUVs (0-60 in 4.5"-4.9" per EVO, R&T, and the conservative factory claim), the ML63 is easily the best looking SUV around, albeit this is obviously a personal taste. The X5 is bland, the Cayenne just plain, disgustingly ugly (even after the facelift, and esp. with any of the factory option wheels). The RR Sport SC looks nice, but is 1000 lb too heavy for the motor and is 6" too wide.
Happy motoring, and try not to blow by lesser SUVs/sport sedans/wannabe sports cars too fast. The large frontal area of the ML63 displaces a lot of air and creates a good deal of turbulence
In favor of choosing the ML63: other than being one of the quickest SUVs (0-60 in 4.5"-4.9" per EVO, R&T, and the conservative factory claim), the ML63 is easily the best looking SUV around, albeit this is obviously a personal taste. The X5 is bland, the Cayenne just plain, disgustingly ugly (even after the facelift, and esp. with any of the factory option wheels). The RR Sport SC looks nice, but is 1000 lb too heavy for the motor and is 6" too wide.
Happy motoring, and try not to blow by lesser SUVs/sport sedans/wannabe sports cars too fast. The large frontal area of the ML63 displaces a lot of air and creates a good deal of turbulence
Super Member
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Taipei
2005 SL55 AMG
I also heard about the V8 twin turbo BMW is secretly developing. I'm not sure if it will be in the X5 or whatever, but from what I have heard, which are just rumors, nothing for real, is that since the 335s (inline 6 twin tuwbo) are doing so well in sales, BMW really wants to make a v8tt.
I guess all we can do is wait, right? It could get very interesting.
Me personally, I love the ML63. I think it looks bada$$, and its super fast.
I guess all we can do is wait, right? It could get very interesting.
Me personally, I love the ML63. I think it looks bada$$, and its super fast.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,276
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From: Bay Area
2015 E63S, 2018 E63S
I am with Carl, the V10 just don't produces enough torque for a heavy truck like X5, it barely has any low-end grunt so if it were to be installed in the X5, it might take forever to get going.
I don't have a link handy, but I do recalled reading about the X5M, it would be mostly a cosmetic upgrade, wheels and bumpers, with a slight bump on hp from the V8.
I don't have a link handy, but I do recalled reading about the X5M, it would be mostly a cosmetic upgrade, wheels and bumpers, with a slight bump on hp from the V8.
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Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 259
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From: Vancouver
06 CLS55, 07 997TT, 07 ML63, 10 X6M, 11 Alpina B7, 12 997TTS, 13 G63, 13 MP4-12C
Last I check, the M5 Touring weights in at 4300lb, a X5 4.8i weights 4800lb, a ML63 weights in at just over 5000lb and a Cayenne Turbo comes in at almost 5400lb.
Lets skip the heavy weight ML63 and the Cayenne Turbo, which does 0-60 in 4.8 and 5.1 respectively.
The V10 makes 383lb-ft at 6100rpm, the 4.8 in the X5 makes 350lb-ft at 3500rpm. For comparison the V8 in the ML550 makes 391lb-ft at 2800rpm.
Consider the X5 4.8 do 0-60 around 6.5-6.8sec, and the ML550, which weights around the same as the X5 4.8 but with more torque at a lower rpm, can do 0-60 around 5.8sec, do you seriously think a V10 equiped X5 with the torque peak at 6100rpm has any chance of getting out of the hole alive?
Remember not only does the V10 has to carry an extra 500lbs, it also has to deal with the awd setup and the much larger and heavier wheels and tires, these takes efforts to get rolling and they also reduces the effective gearing and will expose the weak bottom end of the V10 even more.
The V10 is a fantastic engine and I am sure once underway, at speed it will have no problem staying with or passing the ML63 or the Cayenne Turbo, but just don't stop, ever.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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wife's car2014 ml350
getting more torque out a v10 is pretty easy i would say, give it a bigger bore, strengthen the block alittle, make it breath better with some cylider head work or larger valves, cool it off alittle maybe a lighter roatating assmbly and some better headers with some more fuel and air mixed in and bam! 500lbs of torque no problemo.... hp and torque are easy with a little more cubic inches and some fuel management, if you have the money, how fast do you want to go? bmw has the money
i would still get the merc!
i would still get the merc!
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 259
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From: Vancouver
06 CLS55, 07 997TT, 07 ML63, 10 X6M, 11 Alpina B7, 12 997TTS, 13 G63, 13 MP4-12C
Acutally it's not that simple to make more torque, it's a lot harder to tune for more torque than hp. What you had proposed actually would make even more hp at a even higher rpm with little gain of torque. The lighter stuff would allows the engine to rev even faster. Without forced induction the BMW V10 has no chance of making much more than 400lb-ft. Unlike Viper's V10, BMW's V10 by design is a high revving power plant that uses the extra hgh rpm to make hp, it wasn't designed to be a torque producing machine. HP is a function of rpm times torque, the less torque an engine produces, the more rpm it needs to make hp.
Lamborghini's V10 is of the same design, both of them need to spin like the Honda's vtec engines to make any power. Look at how hard Audi tried to adapt the V10 for sedan use, they bored it out to give it more displacement and uses intake and exhaust tuned more for torque than hp and they still ended up with a loss of 70hp for a meager 20lb-ft gain at only 1000rpm lower.
Lamborghini's V10 is of the same design, both of them need to spin like the Honda's vtec engines to make any power. Look at how hard Audi tried to adapt the V10 for sedan use, they bored it out to give it more displacement and uses intake and exhaust tuned more for torque than hp and they still ended up with a loss of 70hp for a meager 20lb-ft gain at only 1000rpm lower.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 462
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wife's car2014 ml350
Acutally it's not that simple to make more torque, it's a lot harder to tune for more torque than hp. What you had proposed actually would make even more hp at a even higher rpm with little gain of torque. The lighter stuff would allows the engine to rev even faster. Without forced induction the BMW V10 has no chance of making much more than 400lb-ft. Unlike Viper's V10, BMW's V10 by design is a high revving power plant that uses the extra hgh rpm to make hp, it wasn't designed to be a torque producing machine. HP is a function of rpm times torque, the less torque an engine produces, the more rpm it needs to make hp.
Lamborghini's V10 is of the same design, both of them need to spin like the Honda's vtec engines to make any power. Look at how hard Audi tried to adapt the V10 for sedan use, they bored it out to give it more displacement and uses intake and exhaust tuned more for torque than hp and they still ended up with a loss of 70hp for a meager 20lb-ft gain at only 1000rpm lower.
Lamborghini's V10 is of the same design, both of them need to spin like the Honda's vtec engines to make any power. Look at how hard Audi tried to adapt the V10 for sedan use, they bored it out to give it more displacement and uses intake and exhaust tuned more for torque than hp and they still ended up with a loss of 70hp for a meager 20lb-ft gain at only 1000rpm lower.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
I've ordered my ML63 AMG before 3 Weeks and I'm thinking to cancel it cause i see this
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...bs?ext_index=0
and i don't think it's taking so long that this X5 M is available here in Germany
They are writing under the Pictures that it has a V10 from the M5 with 507hp
and it's hitting the 100km/h mark under 5 seconds but they'r not sure.
so what do you think of this X5 M ?
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...bs?ext_index=0
and i don't think it's taking so long that this X5 M is available here in Germany
They are writing under the Pictures that it has a V10 from the M5 with 507hp
and it's hitting the 100km/h mark under 5 seconds but they'r not sure.
so what do you think of this X5 M ?
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 23
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ML55 AMG
M????????
HUH????? i always heard that the M works folks would not "Motorsports" an SUV because of their sedan pedigree????? Are they now suffering from the fact tha everyone now knows AMG is "der wunderkind" and the king of the hill so they now need to do this to compete?????
I couldnt see M beating AMG anyways so why the issue?
I couldnt see M beating AMG anyways so why the issue?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,744
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From: New York City
95 Audi urS6 Quattro
I know for a fact that the X5 will NOT have a V10, it will have a Bi-Turbo V8 and be badged a 4.8is or a 5.0is. The X6, will have an M version and be the MX6 or somthing to that affect. I have no figures on power and torque.
As far as when this will happen, I think BMW only knows. I would venture to guess not at least till March of 2008 or September 2008 as a 2009 Model Year.
As far as when this will happen, I think BMW only knows. I would venture to guess not at least till March of 2008 or September 2008 as a 2009 Model Year.
