W163 retro audio system completed
08-08-2008, 02:52 AM
#26
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steve.. my ML is 98" ( WITH NO BOSE ) today i removed the old head unit and installed a temporary one.. ( some SONY XPLOD from my brothers old car) CDT AUDIO front 6.5 components and 5.25 rear coaxials... JBL amp powering the speakers.. and an extra 2 channel JBL amp just sitting (was planning on using with sub if i ever add it)....
in a month or so plan on adding a double din navi.. PIONEER AVIC-F90BT/F900BT/F700BT ...
as for bass i dont need booming crazy wild bass.. really just want a very very full sounding system.... i think i have the terms infinite baffle and free air for subs mixed up? are those terms interchangeable?
i have the old 6 disc changer removed.. and it seems that there is tons of space there for something... just need to figure out the best way to get bass and optimize space and get as good of quality sound as possible
IM highly leaning toward getting some high quality 8" free air sub.... so i guess i would get a piece of MDF... make the cut out for the sub... find mounting points on the board to the old mounting points of the ML changer parts... and just making sure the rear of the sub is dynamatted and even the piece of MDF? so that means the entire cabin acts as the box? will the board be enough seal between the front and rear to keep the bass from canceling each other out? is there any restriction in depth behind the board to the front? any other tips for increasing the quality of bass that type of instal would make?
thanks again..
in a month or so plan on adding a double din navi.. PIONEER AVIC-F90BT/F900BT/F700BT ...
as for bass i dont need booming crazy wild bass.. really just want a very very full sounding system.... i think i have the terms infinite baffle and free air for subs mixed up? are those terms interchangeable?
i have the old 6 disc changer removed.. and it seems that there is tons of space there for something... just need to figure out the best way to get bass and optimize space and get as good of quality sound as possible
IM highly leaning toward getting some high quality 8" free air sub.... so i guess i would get a piece of MDF... make the cut out for the sub... find mounting points on the board to the old mounting points of the ML changer parts... and just making sure the rear of the sub is dynamatted and even the piece of MDF? so that means the entire cabin acts as the box? will the board be enough seal between the front and rear to keep the bass from canceling each other out? is there any restriction in depth behind the board to the front? any other tips for increasing the quality of bass that type of instal would make?
thanks again..
Last edited by thedips; 08-08-2008 at 03:05 AM.
08-08-2008, 07:14 AM
#27
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01 ML55, 05 Jaguar X type, 05 mini Cooper convertible, 03 VW Eurovan
Free air would be the type of mounting, infinate baffel the type of enclosure, they are synomomous in this application. The area behind the quarter panel where the old CD changer lived will become the "box" verses the cabin.
You would be mounting the driver free air in an infinite baffle where the enclosure is simply sealed from the front. Personally I would get some of the sound dampening material from parts express, put it everywhere you can get to behind the woofer, and then spray in a couple cans of rubberized undercoating. Let it dry a day or two and then stuff it w/ pink unbacked insulation. The baffel can be mounted far enough back (mount the speaker on the back side so the excursion is happening inside the mdf hole) to allow the old plastic cover for the cabin filter to fit back in place. It has louvers in it and looks perfectly stock. When I did mine this way I sealed the plastic rear quarter trim piece (the whole quarter panel piece not the lid) to the mdf w/ a couple tubes of silicon to do exactly as you have described (not allowing phase problems from the sound in back cancelling the sound in front). I first used duct tape to get a surface for the silicone to bond to. I then built up a few layers to make a gasket.
You could also check around on ebay for an additional Bose woofer for under the seat. It would be a lot easier on yours as my 01 has a drawer there that had to be removed and also the phone stuff was in the way and had to be relocated. The second woofer makes a big difference as it is close to you and you are dealing w/ small drivers. The final system sounds very good especially compared to a stock ML system. I have become hooked on music DVDs. I am now a menace to society w/ my cell phone, 100MPH driving, and watching a dvd. At least the Pioneer D3 has a blue tooth link that works really well.
Again, good luck and post pics. PM me with any specific questions and I will try to help. I had no luck w/ any of the stereo specialty stores as they all told me that there is nothing you can do to an ML w/ the Bose and that none of my ideas would work. It actually worked out quite nicely for not too much dough.
Take your time and "never get in farther than you can get back out", meaning don't modify anything to the point you can't put it back to stock.
Steve
You would be mounting the driver free air in an infinite baffle where the enclosure is simply sealed from the front. Personally I would get some of the sound dampening material from parts express, put it everywhere you can get to behind the woofer, and then spray in a couple cans of rubberized undercoating. Let it dry a day or two and then stuff it w/ pink unbacked insulation. The baffel can be mounted far enough back (mount the speaker on the back side so the excursion is happening inside the mdf hole) to allow the old plastic cover for the cabin filter to fit back in place. It has louvers in it and looks perfectly stock. When I did mine this way I sealed the plastic rear quarter trim piece (the whole quarter panel piece not the lid) to the mdf w/ a couple tubes of silicon to do exactly as you have described (not allowing phase problems from the sound in back cancelling the sound in front). I first used duct tape to get a surface for the silicone to bond to. I then built up a few layers to make a gasket.
You could also check around on ebay for an additional Bose woofer for under the seat. It would be a lot easier on yours as my 01 has a drawer there that had to be removed and also the phone stuff was in the way and had to be relocated. The second woofer makes a big difference as it is close to you and you are dealing w/ small drivers. The final system sounds very good especially compared to a stock ML system. I have become hooked on music DVDs. I am now a menace to society w/ my cell phone, 100MPH driving, and watching a dvd. At least the Pioneer D3 has a blue tooth link that works really well.
Again, good luck and post pics. PM me with any specific questions and I will try to help. I had no luck w/ any of the stereo specialty stores as they all told me that there is nothing you can do to an ML w/ the Bose and that none of my ideas would work. It actually worked out quite nicely for not too much dough.
Take your time and "never get in farther than you can get back out", meaning don't modify anything to the point you can't put it back to stock.
Steve
Last edited by Speakerdude; 08-08-2008 at 07:31 AM.
08-08-2008, 07:24 AM
#28
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01 ML55, 05 Jaguar X type, 05 mini Cooper convertible, 03 VW Eurovan
One other thing, get your jack and lug wrench out and wrap it in something. I did that and then bungeed it to the underside of the back seat.
Steve
Steve
08-08-2008, 10:16 PM
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well.. i pretty much narrowed it down to two subs...
im gonna think about making either a custom odd shaped stuffed fiberglass box with
Pioneer Premier® 8" Shallow-Mount Subwoofer with 500 Watts Max. Power LINK i know i can get it to fit in there..... just gonna take some time and some fiberglass skills....
or just call it a day and mount one of these next to my amp under the rear seat...
Kenwood KSC-SW10 5 x 7” compact powered subwoofer LINK
just need to marinate on it for a bit....... i just finally dialed in my components and amp .. so the sound quality is amazing.. i love the quality of CDT AUDIO speakers.... i tried to pull out as much midbass as possible..however i am lacking the necessary lows for a complete sound system ....
any comments on these two subs ???
im gonna think about making either a custom odd shaped stuffed fiberglass box with
Pioneer Premier® 8" Shallow-Mount Subwoofer with 500 Watts Max. Power LINK i know i can get it to fit in there..... just gonna take some time and some fiberglass skills....
or just call it a day and mount one of these next to my amp under the rear seat...
Kenwood KSC-SW10 5 x 7” compact powered subwoofer LINK
just need to marinate on it for a bit....... i just finally dialed in my components and amp .. so the sound quality is amazing.. i love the quality of CDT AUDIO speakers.... i tried to pull out as much midbass as possible..however i am lacking the necessary lows for a complete sound system ....
any comments on these two subs ???
08-09-2008, 05:34 AM
#30
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01 ML55, 05 Jaguar X type, 05 mini Cooper convertible, 03 VW Eurovan
How does that little Kenwood sound? That looks like a very quick fix that if it sounds decent would be a good idea. I kust bought an 09 SCion XB for my daughter and upgraded the main speakers and stuck in a little 4 channel amp but that would fit right under the passenger seat. The Pioneer head end that came in the car is nice in that it has full ipod control, steering wheel control, and (6) RCA line outs. I have never seen a factory unit that was set up to upgrade this easy. The little vechicle however is another story. It has to be the ugliest, weirdest, vehicle I have ever driven. She loves it but man I could never get used to that thing.
I stuck a couple pics of the system in my fun car. That was another one that the stores decided could not be done w/o some huge box in the back. I used two 6X9 Polk woofers in sealed boxes in the wheel wells, two way Polk plates in the front, and 5X7 Polk coaxes in the rear sides. everything is covered and the car looks totally stock inside as far as audio stuff.
Steve
I stuck a couple pics of the system in my fun car. That was another one that the stores decided could not be done w/o some huge box in the back. I used two 6X9 Polk woofers in sealed boxes in the wheel wells, two way Polk plates in the front, and 5X7 Polk coaxes in the rear sides. everything is covered and the car looks totally stock inside as far as audio stuff.
Steve
08-11-2008, 03:14 AM
#31
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yea... thats what scions are for.. the customizeability of those things are intense....
i would love to make my audio system look completely stock.. but just hit hard.. thats what i love about a great audio system... if i wanted some real bass i could easily take 2 12s and toss em in the back and call it a day .... ill let you know about the kenwood... im going to try it out.. and see how i like it or not like it.. im getting a great deal on one so i said why not....
if not then i will go ahead with the PIONEER premieres.... then mount them right underneath the rear seat and plastic covers... i will create a fiberglass box that will slide right in that little space....
question if i mount 2 subs in the same SEALED box.. do i just simply double the volume needed to to properly house the 2 subs? also do i need to make a split or barrier between the two subs making two sealed channels or can they just share the same air space within the box?
thanks again...
i would love to make my audio system look completely stock.. but just hit hard.. thats what i love about a great audio system... if i wanted some real bass i could easily take 2 12s and toss em in the back and call it a day .... ill let you know about the kenwood... im going to try it out.. and see how i like it or not like it.. im getting a great deal on one so i said why not....
if not then i will go ahead with the PIONEER premieres.... then mount them right underneath the rear seat and plastic covers... i will create a fiberglass box that will slide right in that little space....
question if i mount 2 subs in the same SEALED box.. do i just simply double the volume needed to to properly house the 2 subs? also do i need to make a split or barrier between the two subs making two sealed channels or can they just share the same air space within the box?
thanks again...
Last edited by thedips; 08-11-2008 at 03:18 AM.
08-11-2008, 06:27 AM
#32
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01 ML55, 05 Jaguar X type, 05 mini Cooper convertible, 03 VW Eurovan
In a perfect world they would be in seperate enclosures to avoid intermodulation distortion. Basicly the pressure from one of the drivers will effect the mechanical motion of the other. Example: As the one is accelerating outward it will create a vacuum that will tend to pull the other one back. This opposite force will limit the deep bass and also cause distortion in both drivers. In addition, and even more importantly, is that with an ideal cabinet volume for sealed drivers you are creating a mechanical resonance that will be dramatically effected by increasing the size of the enclosure. Most drivers intended for sealed or acoustic suspension cabinets use the air pressure in the cabinet to bring the resonance point up on a physically looser cone. The principal works well, takes more power than other cabinet types, sounds very tight when done properly. Henry Kloss developed this principal with the old AR speakers, the KLH, and finally the Advent Loudspeaker which is an icon in the Audio industry. The money from that little speaker funded the research for the CRT projection television industry.
The old Advent three guns w/ a parabolic screen and the Kloss Nova Beam were the infancy of home big screens. I still have one of the old fiberglass parabolic screens that we use as a sled. It is incredibly fast w/ no steering or braking, a lot like American muscle cars.
A variation of this that also sounds great but is not practical in the space in the side pocket is Isobarik loading where you have one speaker in a sealed chamber directly behind the other. Check out a pair of Linn Sondek Isobariks sometime if you have an opportunity. The DMS is an unbelievable speaker the SARA (I have a pair) are much smaller but sound really good. The cabinet volume is not critical w/ infinate baffel loading and can also be addressed w/ a ported cabinet much easier than w/ a sealed enclosure.
If somebody has a premade enclosure that fits in the space it will probably offer better performance than you could build in the garage. I am not a BOSE fan at all as far as higher end Home Audio but in a car they sound pretty decent, the little woofer under the seat really makes a big difference when used w/ the rear one.
Good luck w/ the project
Steve
The old Advent three guns w/ a parabolic screen and the Kloss Nova Beam were the infancy of home big screens. I still have one of the old fiberglass parabolic screens that we use as a sled. It is incredibly fast w/ no steering or braking, a lot like American muscle cars.
A variation of this that also sounds great but is not practical in the space in the side pocket is Isobarik loading where you have one speaker in a sealed chamber directly behind the other. Check out a pair of Linn Sondek Isobariks sometime if you have an opportunity. The DMS is an unbelievable speaker the SARA (I have a pair) are much smaller but sound really good. The cabinet volume is not critical w/ infinate baffel loading and can also be addressed w/ a ported cabinet much easier than w/ a sealed enclosure.
If somebody has a premade enclosure that fits in the space it will probably offer better performance than you could build in the garage. I am not a BOSE fan at all as far as higher end Home Audio but in a car they sound pretty decent, the little woofer under the seat really makes a big difference when used w/ the rear one.
Good luck w/ the project
Steve
01-22-2009, 07:02 PM
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wow its been a while since i posted.. i literally just fnished my audio stuff and in addition attempted to fix many little things in my car.... for some reason im in love with my ML again....
just wanted to thank you again steve for help
this is what i finally ended up with....
PIONEER AVIC-F700BT (hacked modded)
CDT AUDIO 6.5" component fronts / 5.25" component rears
KICKER COMP VR 12" (ported box)
JBL GTO-504 4 Channel Amplifier (speakers)
JBL GTO-752 2 Channel Amplifier (subwoofer)
sounds real clean and controlled, and can get loud and ugly if i want... i ended up not trying to hide the sub since i couldnt get one to fit anywhere in addition to hiding the amps.. i had the pioneer 8" slims but they looked really tiny and still didnt have anywhere to place my amps...
ill take some pics shortly
just wanted to thank you again steve for help
this is what i finally ended up with....
PIONEER AVIC-F700BT (hacked modded)
CDT AUDIO 6.5" component fronts / 5.25" component rears
KICKER COMP VR 12" (ported box)
JBL GTO-504 4 Channel Amplifier (speakers)
JBL GTO-752 2 Channel Amplifier (subwoofer)
sounds real clean and controlled, and can get loud and ugly if i want... i ended up not trying to hide the sub since i couldnt get one to fit anywhere in addition to hiding the amps.. i had the pioneer 8" slims but they looked really tiny and still didnt have anywhere to place my amps...
ill take some pics shortly
01-22-2009, 08:45 PM
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01 ML55, 05 Jaguar X type, 05 mini Cooper convertible, 03 VW Eurovan
Sounds like a killer system. These are cool trucks. I have 112,000 on mine now and it is going strong and sounding good.
Steve
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01-22-2009, 09:58 PM
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yea i just passed about 135k not to long ago.... still running great (knock on wood) going to take it in to get checked up again... unfortunately i got a dent from some random parking garage hopefullly i can get it popped out...
