sprins

I consider Land Rover, and the Range Rover in particular, to be in a class of its own. I don't consider them as SUVs at all. But that's my personal feeling with that brand.

Like talking about sports or politics: It's 100% emotion, but there really isn't a point discussing it. That's why they invented the Internet! To have the same discussions (recorded) over and over again

vraa

On the Land Rover issue, I agree. Just something about them turns me off.

I think after the ML63 comes out, and the next generation X5 and Cayenne, we'll have a war on our hands!

55fanatic

Why is it the germans are so good at starting wars? Do we really think though there will be another SUV that can produce a 0-60 of 5sec flat?

vraa

I spit out my coke reading that!

Will they? They better, I'm tired of having to use mods to keep up with my friends Cobras.

fever

If you're ignornant about Lexus and Toyota, fine. But don't say stupid things.

55fanatic

hey he is young and ignorant, dont hate him for that, lol

Militant-Grunt

Not being ignorant about a lexus ( or just an "expensive" toyota ), I have been in one, and I dont find it comparable to BMW/ Mercedes. Sure you can say the level of refinement on the interior is nice and up to par with bmw/ merc. But we are talking about high performance suv's here, something that the LX470 doesnt fall under with its average 275HP. ( tisk tsk and its a 4.7 liter engine too.. )

The LX falls under the same class as the Range Rover, or the Qx from infinity, or the G class from mercedes.

I have a right to opinion. If you dont like it, thats just too damn bad.

Militant-Grunt

Mr. Im only 5 years older.

55fanatic

i believe the G55 does fall under the category we are looking at, and the ML55 can not compete with the newest one, lol

Militant-Grunt

Was speaking of the G500, a non AMG vechicle =P

fever

The poll asks a fair question-which SUV would you pick (and they're all the same money).

You dismissed the Lexus as an overpriced Toyota. I find that amusing. You've clearly never owned a Lexus and cannot compare it to Mercedes. If you had owned a Lexus you would never have made that comment.

I could quite easily point out the atrocious water in the engine problem of the V8 MLs, rotor replacement every ten to twenty grand, and other problems. The fact of the matter is that when you write your own checks the choice becomes more difficult.

If money wasn't an issue we'd all be in Turbo Cayennes. Drive a Lexus for a year and your opinion will be markedly different.

Militant-Grunt

Besides the IS and the GS, I find the whole line of their cars unattractive, and for basically the same money you can buy attractive european cars.
If you have the money, then there are much better looking cars, with better performance specs. Screw the LX470 when for just 2k more I can have a Range Rover Sport Supercharged.. Or for 6k more a range rover HSE. When you can afford cars like these, you can afford the maintenance that comes along with them.

I havent owned a lexus, but I have been in every single one of their models to know that I never will.

vraa

Or own one for twelve.. and counting

55fanatic

Matt gonna have to disagree with you here bud, You will learn that an acura is an overpriced honda but a lexus, is a lexus, it may not be a mercedes but it has no headaches associated with it and for the differences in fit and finish I would go with the lexus

rbc55

i have owned both vehicles, other than the stronger torque of the ml 55 although 200 lbs. heavier, the 4.6 handles superiorly, is a dead even race to 100 where the 4.6 slowly pulls up to 150 whereas the ml 55 is limited to 130 mph at that speed the ml becomes less than assuring to drive . in my opinion seeing as i have owned both ,the 4.6 is a much better vehicle overall . that is why i traded my ml for the 4.6. i am interested to drive the ml 63 , i feel it will surpass all including the cayenne turbo.

rbc55

the 4.6 is much stronger than the 4.4 , eve the 315 hp 4.4 ,my friend had a 4.4 315 hp. and i had no problem beating him.

MikeHK

This is just so funny! Without BMW M, would there be MB AMG LineUp?

sprins

We're talking specifically about (high performance) luxury SUVs here. Your remark about M and AMG may be interesting, but slightly

55fanatic

AMG was around long before M... they did have very different beginings though, M was started as another department in BMW. AMG had started as its own entity as a performance tuner for mercedes.

And as far as the SUVs are concerened BMW M had a big part in the design and construction of the 4.6 and 4.8, there were some reasons why it didnt where the M badge though

55fanatic

The ML 55 isnt limited to 130... it was limited to 145 I believe in the first two years of production and then to 155 all years after

Erik

The engines is developed by ALPINA, its basically the same engine use in the B10 and the B10s, so its not an M product at all.

The reasson why the X5 does not carry the M badge is simple. A SUV would totaly break the phillosophy.
Its not enough for BMW M just to put a huge engine in it and make it go fast in straight line.
They could offcourse put the V10 M5 engine in it, but would NEVER do that.

Therefor I would be extremly supprised if there ever would be an X3 or X5 in an M version.....

Erik

Hi

Allthoug its not 100% correct to say that the Lexus is only an overpriced Toyota its not all wrong either.

Lexus is a Toyota product aimed to compete with the premium segment. BMW-MB and a few others.

The lexus name was borned when Toyota decided to aim for that marked, and needed a name that sounded a bit more exclusive.
They have done well and their cars is not to shabby.

We have had several Toyotas, from the 4 Runner, LC80, LC 100 and finaly the RX300.
The LC100 is excactly the same car as the Lexus 470, except from some differences in the front and some on the inside.
Technically is the same car.
The ONLY one of this cars that goes in the SUV cathegory is the RX300.
Its a good car, but not the car you choose if you like to drive.
Its a car you all asleep in........
The engine is smooth and the gearbox is nice.... even if it is an oldfashion 3 speed box with and overdrive function..... Its way to soft to be considered sporty in any meaning of the word. It was also the only of this cars that actually had to be put in the workshop several times due to electronical problems.

If you need a very comfortable workhorse you go for the LC100/Lexus470. It works well as an offroader and are very comfortable on the streets as long as the roads does not turn as much......
I did several trips during Germany with the LC 100 diesel, ( tuned to app 240 Hp) cruise controll at 120 mph( speedo indicated) and the thing just keept it speed, uphill and down hill. You went thrue a full tank of diesel like it was a hole in it......
As long as you did not have to hit the breakes hard or turn thrue a high speed curve, it was amazing...... the brakes is 100% rubbish.......

fever

I don't think Toyota is anything to be ashamed of. They have proven they can do performance with the last generation TT Supra.

I drove a GS 400 that ran circles around the E430. Yes, the E felt better but it was an inferior car in most respects. I also drove an 83 Cressida years and years ago that I detested cosmetically but it ran like a bull. If Toyota/Lexus figures out how to instill a bit of teutonic feel and works on its styling then look out; we'll have some converts on this board.

Toyota spent in excess of $1billion in the early eighties to develop Lexus. JD Power doesn't lie nor does resale value. Does Lexus need more soul? Absolutely. It's on the way, methinks.

And Mercedes better get with the program on QC. Anybody who pays attention to opportunity costs will continue to migrate away from our beloved Benz.

Erik

Maybe

BTW: Do you have a pick of your Packard.

My old man has a Packard to, almost completly restaured, lack only a paint job and some small things.
Not sure about the name of it, its a 12 syl monster of a car.
Think it is from the late 30ties.

Gonna put it out for sale.

MikeHK

Well, depends on your interpertation. To me, what AMG is currently doing is to put that 5.5 engine into every MB line possible. I mean, a 6.3 AMG R Class minivan? give me a break! You can call MB is the forerunner of High Performance MINIVAN in that case, but I would call that stupid.

AMG was a tuner, but without M. I don't think you people would be getting warranties on your AMG cars.