View Poll Results: ML55 AMG or BMW 4.6is or Lexus LX470
ML55 AMG
50
54.95%
BMW 4.6is
33
36.26%
Lexus LX470
8
8.79%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll
ML55 AMG or BMW 4.6is or Lexus LX470
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,212
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From: Boston, MA
00 MB ML55, 91 Toyota Supra Turbo(sold), 06 E500(gone), 03 BMW M3
Originally Posted by Erik
The engines is developed by ALPINA, its basically the same engine use in the B10 and the B10s, so its not an M product at all.
The reasson why the X5 does not carry the M badge is simple. A SUV would totaly break the phillosophy.
Its not enough for BMW M just to put a huge engine in it and make it go fast in straight line.
They could offcourse put the V10 M5 engine in it, but would NEVER do that.
Therefor I would be extremly supprised if there ever would be an X3 or X5 in an M version.....
The reasson why the X5 does not carry the M badge is simple. A SUV would totaly break the phillosophy.
Its not enough for BMW M just to put a huge engine in it and make it go fast in straight line.
They could offcourse put the V10 M5 engine in it, but would NEVER do that.
Therefor I would be extremly supprised if there ever would be an X3 or X5 in an M version.....
And I know that an Alpina anything is quite a bit more and even more exclusive then an M... would it be the difference between say an S class(regular bmw) S55(M power bmw) and an S65(Alpina?)
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Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Boston, MA
00 MB ML55, 91 Toyota Supra Turbo(sold), 06 E500(gone), 03 BMW M3
Originally Posted by MikeHK
Well, depends on your interpertation. To me, what AMG is currently doing is to put that 5.5 engine into every MB line possible. I mean, a 6.3 AMG R Class minivan? give me a break! You can call MB is the forerunner of High Performance MINIVAN in that case, but I would call that stupid.
AMG was a tuner, but without M. I don't think you people would be getting warranties on your AMG cars.
AMG was a tuner, but without M. I don't think you people would be getting warranties on your AMG cars.
Ok so lets not turn this thread in to another BMW vs Mercedes Thread... People on the BMW boards are sick of hearing it as much as the Mercedes boards, its like the classic manual vs automatic argument, NEVER GOING TO END!!!
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,212
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From: Boston, MA
00 MB ML55, 91 Toyota Supra Turbo(sold), 06 E500(gone), 03 BMW M3
that last generation TT Supra was created almost entirely from the Lexus Engineers. And the reason why lexus may have taken off so well here in the US and all over the world for that matter is because for most of its early life it was a secret that Toyota owned lexus... They spent a lot of money on the early on goings to hide the fact...
I thought I read somewhere that Lexus and toyota's tuning arms were going to begin releasing some versions of there cars with that sex appeal the germans have been instilling in there cars. I would convert if a GS came supercharged... May not be the fastest on the road but it would be enough to fill that need for speed
I thought I read somewhere that Lexus and toyota's tuning arms were going to begin releasing some versions of there cars with that sex appeal the germans have been instilling in there cars. I would convert if a GS came supercharged... May not be the fastest on the road but it would be enough to fill that need for speed
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 404
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From: Norway
ALPINA B12 5,7 Coupe #22/57
Originally Posted by 55fanatic
I think we have a BMW man here? Anyone? a NON biased one at that...
Ok so lets not turn this thread in to another BMW vs Mercedes Thread... People on the BMW boards are sick of hearing it as much as the Mercedes boards, its like the classic manual vs automatic argument, NEVER GOING TO END!!!
Ok so lets not turn this thread in to another BMW vs Mercedes Thread... People on the BMW boards are sick of hearing it as much as the Mercedes boards, its like the classic manual vs automatic argument, NEVER GOING TO END!!!
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 404
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From: Norway
ALPINA B12 5,7 Coupe #22/57
Originally Posted by 55fanatic
can you explain the difference to me what Alpina is and what M are? Both are tuning arms of BMW no?
And I know that an Alpina anything is quite a bit more and even more exclusive then an M... would it be the difference between say an S class(regular bmw) S55(M power bmw) and an S65(Alpina?)
And I know that an Alpina anything is quite a bit more and even more exclusive then an M... would it be the difference between say an S class(regular bmw) S55(M power bmw) and an S65(Alpina?)
In the big league the match for the S600 would be the 760i, the match for the S55 would be the ALPINA B7. The S65 would take out both and have so far no performance competitor in the ALPINA house.
In the little league, the E55 would go head to head with the ALPINA B5.
In straight line they are more or less 100% equall, allthoug tests show an tiny advantage towards the ALPINA.
Review of the S55 vs the B7
http://www.alpina-automobile.de/dow...083008autoZ.pdf
The short version is that is is NO simularities between M and ALPINA. I did make a explanation of what ALPINA is in another thread.
Read it if you want the info, if not dont
https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....5&postcount=18
Even more in detail in this one....
https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....6&postcount=17
and YES I am a ALPINA guy, maybe even more than an M guy so you have to excuse my joy on writing about it.....
So IMO the best competition for AMG is the ALPINA, not M.
M has a totally different phillosophy than ALPINA and AMG.
The M cars are sportscars in family cars clothing, the ALPINA is a familycar with sport car performance.
ALPINA has turned softer with its years and are to day a producer of fast, lxurious car much the same as AMG, while M make its cars with priority on drivability , a sporty and high reving powerplants.
Last edited by Erik; Sep 13, 2005 at 09:30 AM.
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From: Boston, MA
00 MB ML55, 91 Toyota Supra Turbo(sold), 06 E500(gone), 03 BMW M3
can an alpina be purchased at any BMW dealership? Not a very common vehicle here in the states, I had a co worker a few months ago that tried passing off an E36 318 as an alpina but I know is was a riced out 318 with a body kit and knock off alpina rims, lol... it didnt scream performance in any aspect!!!
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 404
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From: Norway
ALPINA B12 5,7 Coupe #22/57
Originally Posted by 55fanatic
can an alpina be purchased at any BMW dealership? Not a very common vehicle here in the states, I had a co worker a few months ago that tried passing off an E36 318 as an alpina but I know is was a riced out 318 with a body kit and knock off alpina rims, lol... it didnt scream performance in any aspect!!!
Today the cooperation is much close, a few selected BMW dealer are also ALPINA dealer.
The only ALPINA imported to the US is the ALPINA Z8. Other than that you have a few privatly imported. So yes it is very rare in the US.
Take a look here for more official info. www.alpina.de
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Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 108
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by Erik
Maybe 
BTW: Do you have a pick of your Packard.
My old man has a Packard to, almost completly restaured, lack only a paint job and some small things.
Not sure about the name of it, its a 12 syl monster of a car.
Think it is from the late 30ties.
Gonna put it out for sale.
BTW: Do you have a pick of your Packard.
My old man has a Packard to, almost completly restaured, lack only a paint job and some small things.
Not sure about the name of it, its a 12 syl monster of a car.
Think it is from the late 30ties.
Gonna put it out for sale.
And a shot of my 3.5 coupe next to my father's 61 Jag.
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 108
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From: Houston
55fanatic, if anybody didn't know that Lexus was made by Toyota at launch in 1989 it was due to their own ignorance. Even the windows had Toyota written on them.
This is simple branding and marketing. Sure, they screw them down a bit better and use higher quality materials in many places but it's still made by Toyota parent.
I didn't mean to intimate that "Lexus" developed the Supra. My point was that Toyota and Lexus can do performance, yet they are so freaking conservative with styling and have an immense obsession with QC. I think they have made great strides in balancing the two.
Militant, clearly you are not writing your own checks yet. You have no understanding of the value of time and money. Sure, a Range Rover SC Sport is more fun than a LX470. Just like a 5'11" super hot dumb blond is initially more fun than a 5'5" cute and intelligent brunette. But get back to me in one year on both of those.
Here's to wisdom or Daddy's trust fund.
This is simple branding and marketing. Sure, they screw them down a bit better and use higher quality materials in many places but it's still made by Toyota parent.
I didn't mean to intimate that "Lexus" developed the Supra. My point was that Toyota and Lexus can do performance, yet they are so freaking conservative with styling and have an immense obsession with QC. I think they have made great strides in balancing the two.
Militant, clearly you are not writing your own checks yet. You have no understanding of the value of time and money. Sure, a Range Rover SC Sport is more fun than a LX470. Just like a 5'11" super hot dumb blond is initially more fun than a 5'5" cute and intelligent brunette. But get back to me in one year on both of those.
Here's to wisdom or Daddy's trust fund.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
From: Norway
ALPINA B12 5,7 Coupe #22/57
Originally Posted by 55fanatic
great write ups, very informative... and the alpina site is in german?, I dont speak it, or read it
You can chose English.
Enjoy.. Hit the AUTOMOBILE choiche on page 1. Then choose ENGLISH from the meny.
Last edited by Erik; Sep 13, 2005 at 10:29 AM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,212
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From: Boston, MA
00 MB ML55, 91 Toyota Supra Turbo(sold), 06 E500(gone), 03 BMW M3
Originally Posted by fever
55fanatic, if anybody didn't know that Lexus was made by Toyota at launch in 1989 it was due to their own ignorance. Even the windows had Toyota written on them.
This is simple branding and marketing. Sure, they screw them down a bit better and use higher quality materials in many places but it's still made by Toyota parent.
I didn't mean to intimate that "Lexus" developed the Supra. My point was that Toyota and Lexus can do performance, yet they are so freaking conservative with styling and have an immense obsession with QC. I think they have made great strides in balancing the two.
Militant, clearly you are not writing your own checks yet. You have no understanding of the value of time and money. Sure, a Range Rover SC Sport is more fun than a LX470. Just like a 5'11" super hot dumb blond is initially more fun than a 5'5" cute and intelligent brunette. But get back to me in one year on both of those.
Here's to wisdom or Daddy's trust fund.
This is simple branding and marketing. Sure, they screw them down a bit better and use higher quality materials in many places but it's still made by Toyota parent.
I didn't mean to intimate that "Lexus" developed the Supra. My point was that Toyota and Lexus can do performance, yet they are so freaking conservative with styling and have an immense obsession with QC. I think they have made great strides in balancing the two.
Militant, clearly you are not writing your own checks yet. You have no understanding of the value of time and money. Sure, a Range Rover SC Sport is more fun than a LX470. Just like a 5'11" super hot dumb blond is initially more fun than a 5'5" cute and intelligent brunette. But get back to me in one year on both of those.
Here's to wisdom or Daddy's trust fund.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,212
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From: Boston, MA
00 MB ML55, 91 Toyota Supra Turbo(sold), 06 E500(gone), 03 BMW M3
Originally Posted by fever
Packard purists would snicker at my post WWII Packard but it's a lot of fun and super high quality.
And a shot of my 3.5 coupe next to my father's 61 Jag.
And a shot of my 3.5 coupe next to my father's 61 Jag.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: New York City
95 Audi urS6 Quattro
Originally Posted by fever
Militant, clearly you are not writing your own checks yet. You have no understanding of the value of time and money. Sure, a Range Rover SC Sport is more fun than a LX470. Just like a 5'11" super hot dumb blond is initially more fun than a 5'5" cute and intelligent brunette. But get back to me in one year on both of those.
Here's to wisdom or Daddy's trust fund.
Here's to wisdom or Daddy's trust fund.
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 108
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From: Houston
Look, Militant, until you start paying your own way you are speaking from a position of relative ignorance. That's okay but pay a little respect to experience and wisdom.
If you understood the value of time and money, opportunity costs, JD Power/Consumer Reports rankings on Ranger Rover vs Lexus you would understand the RR is not a slam dunk. You wouldn't be arguing with me.
When you make your own scratch, even if you're in the top two percent, the cost and nuisance of a Mercedes/RR vs. a Lexus is still a sizable decision if you watch your money. My analagy is spot on. The RR might be more fun but the repairs and depreciation are quite sizable next to the Lexus/Brunette.
If you understood the value of time and money, opportunity costs, JD Power/Consumer Reports rankings on Ranger Rover vs Lexus you would understand the RR is not a slam dunk. You wouldn't be arguing with me.
When you make your own scratch, even if you're in the top two percent, the cost and nuisance of a Mercedes/RR vs. a Lexus is still a sizable decision if you watch your money. My analagy is spot on. The RR might be more fun but the repairs and depreciation are quite sizable next to the Lexus/Brunette.
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From: New York City
95 Audi urS6 Quattro
comparison between LX and RR HSE.
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/suv/112_0407_heart/
Not a slam dunk right?
Like I said. Reliability = Not a factor when you can afford 70k.
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/suv/112_0407_heart/
Not a slam dunk right?
Like I said. Reliability = Not a factor when you can afford 70k.
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From: Boston, MA
00 MB ML55, 91 Toyota Supra Turbo(sold), 06 E500(gone), 03 BMW M3
Yes Fever you are right, but what I think militant is trying to get across is that JD power and associates doesnt take in to account that the fun factor does add value to a vehicle. Some people find the fun factor worth it, otherwise no one would buy a mercedes. Fever I am also going to make a generalization(correct me if I am wrong, there is no insult intended here) you see a car as something to get you from point a to point b?
For example I am on my own for most of my bills(not 100% but enough) I own my ML55 I enjoy driving it, and my supra I take out to drive with no particular destinations in mind... I wouldnt take a lexus RX300 out to drive, sure its a lot more reliable but there is no value in its fun factor- this is what I think Militant is trying to get across to you.
Militant, I think what fever is trying to get accross is that some people want a car that will not give them headaches. A mercedes goes in to the shop all the time. For some people they dont value the fun factor as much as the functionality, reliability, and practicality factor... A lexus/toyota does not die, no matter how hard you try, I owned a 92 camry and my mom owned it since new, problems with it, almost none with 150k miles. 2000 ML55 that has 92k miles is nothing but a headache with a checkengine light that hasnt shut off for 2 years.
Toyota> current german line ups on reliability
For example I am on my own for most of my bills(not 100% but enough) I own my ML55 I enjoy driving it, and my supra I take out to drive with no particular destinations in mind... I wouldnt take a lexus RX300 out to drive, sure its a lot more reliable but there is no value in its fun factor- this is what I think Militant is trying to get across to you.
Militant, I think what fever is trying to get accross is that some people want a car that will not give them headaches. A mercedes goes in to the shop all the time. For some people they dont value the fun factor as much as the functionality, reliability, and practicality factor... A lexus/toyota does not die, no matter how hard you try, I owned a 92 camry and my mom owned it since new, problems with it, almost none with 150k miles. 2000 ML55 that has 92k miles is nothing but a headache with a checkengine light that hasnt shut off for 2 years.
Toyota> current german line ups on reliability
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Boston, MA
00 MB ML55, 91 Toyota Supra Turbo(sold), 06 E500(gone), 03 BMW M3
Originally Posted by Militant-Grunt
comparison between LX and RR HSE.
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/suv/112_0407_heart/
Not a slam dunk right?
Like I said. Reliability = Not a factor when you can afford 70k.
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/suv/112_0407_heart/
Not a slam dunk right?
Like I said. Reliability = Not a factor when you can afford 70k.
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Keep it to the cars Let's leave parents and economical stability out of it.
There are no 'Lexus' engineers when they designed and created the Supra. In the end, they are all still employees of Toyota Global, which isn't a bad thing
Let's leave parents and economical stability out of it.There are no 'Lexus' engineers when they designed and created the Supra. In the end, they are all still employees of Toyota Global, which isn't a bad thing
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 120
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Originally Posted by 55fanatic
I think we have a BMW man here? Anyone? a NON biased one at that...
Ok so lets not turn this thread in to another BMW vs Mercedes Thread... People on the BMW boards are sick of hearing it as much as the Mercedes boards, its like the classic manual vs automatic argument, NEVER GOING TO END!!!
Ok so lets not turn this thread in to another BMW vs Mercedes Thread... People on the BMW boards are sick of hearing it as much as the Mercedes boards, its like the classic manual vs automatic argument, NEVER GOING TO END!!!
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 108
Likes: 5
From: Houston
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Keep it to the cars Let's leave parents and economical stability out of it.
There are no 'Lexus' engineers when they designed and created the Supra. In the end, they are all still employees of Toyota Global, which isn't a bad thing
Let's leave parents and economical stability out of it.There are no 'Lexus' engineers when they designed and created the Supra. In the end, they are all still employees of Toyota Global, which isn't a bad thing
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Joined: Jul 2002
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Originally Posted by fever
Say, Rick, the original thread asked the question about which SUV would you pick of three choices. Maintenance and upkeep was part of the "debate". It was quite germane to point out the economics of ownership.
355Spider: I have yet to get a long term FX45. I long for one, but alas, none of my friends nor family have one they would let me borrow.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: New York City
95 Audi urS6 Quattro
Originally Posted by 355Spider
I have driven all 3 and none compares to the joy of driving the Infinity FX45. But I drive a 355 and an M3 so I like to drive.
