55fanatic

can you explain the difference to me what Alpina is and what M are? Both are tuning arms of BMW no?

And I know that an Alpina anything is quite a bit more and even more exclusive then an M... would it be the difference between say an S class(regular bmw) S55(M power bmw) and an S65(Alpina?)

55fanatic

I think we have a BMW man here? Anyone? a NON biased one at that...

Ok so lets not turn this thread in to another BMW vs Mercedes Thread... People on the BMW boards are sick of hearing it as much as the Mercedes boards, its like the classic manual vs automatic argument, NEVER GOING TO END!!!

55fanatic

that last generation TT Supra was created almost entirely from the Lexus Engineers. And the reason why lexus may have taken off so well here in the US and all over the world for that matter is because for most of its early life it was a secret that Toyota owned lexus... They spent a lot of money on the early on goings to hide the fact...

I thought I read somewhere that Lexus and toyota's tuning arms were going to begin releasing some versions of there cars with that sex appeal the germans have been instilling in there cars. I would convert if a GS came supercharged... May not be the fastest on the road but it would be enough to fill that need for speed

Erik

Agree, and relax. I`ll try my best to make it as neutral I can, based on my taste and preferance. I do not think I have made any BMW is much better than MB here. I only said the ML was not equall the X5 when it was launced.

55fanatic

oh no that wasnt directed to you... look who I quoted, your being quite informative, lol

Erik

Its getting a bit OT, sorry about that...

In the big league the match for the S600 would be the 760i, the match for the S55 would be the ALPINA B7. The S65 would take out both and have so far no performance competitor in the ALPINA house.

In the little league, the E55 would go head to head with the ALPINA B5.
In straight line they are more or less 100% equall, allthoug tests show an tiny advantage towards the ALPINA.

Review of the S55 vs the B7
http://www.alpina-automobile.de/dow...083008autoZ.pdf


The short version is that is is NO simularities between M and ALPINA. I did make a explanation of what ALPINA is in another thread.
Read it if you want the info, if not dont

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....5&postcount=18

Even more in detail in this one....
https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....6&postcount=17


and YES I am a ALPINA guy, maybe even more than an M guy so you have to excuse my joy on writing about it.....

So IMO the best competition for AMG is the ALPINA, not M.

M has a totally different phillosophy than ALPINA and AMG.
The M cars are sportscars in family cars clothing, the ALPINA is a familycar with sport car performance.
ALPINA has turned softer with its years and are to day a producer of fast, lxurious car much the same as AMG, while M make its cars with priority on drivability , a sporty and high reving powerplants.

55fanatic

can an alpina be purchased at any BMW dealership? Not a very common vehicle here in the states, I had a co worker a few months ago that tried passing off an E36 318 as an alpina but I know is was a riced out 318 with a body kit and knock off alpina rims, lol... it didnt scream performance in any aspect!!!

Erik

In Europe you can ONLY buy an ALPINA at the BMW dealers. It was not like that before, we did buy our ALPINA`s at the factory and did the personal pick there as well.
Today the cooperation is much close, a few selected BMW dealer are also ALPINA dealer.
The only ALPINA imported to the US is the ALPINA Z8. Other than that you have a few privatly imported. So yes it is very rare in the US.

Take a look here for more official info. www.alpina.de

fever

Packard purists would snicker at my post WWII Packard but it's a lot of fun and super high quality.


And a shot of my 3.5 coupe next to my father's 61 Jag.

fever

55fanatic, if anybody didn't know that Lexus was made by Toyota at launch in 1989 it was due to their own ignorance. Even the windows had Toyota written on them.

This is simple branding and marketing. Sure, they screw them down a bit better and use higher quality materials in many places but it's still made by Toyota parent.

I didn't mean to intimate that "Lexus" developed the Supra. My point was that Toyota and Lexus can do performance, yet they are so freaking conservative with styling and have an immense obsession with QC. I think they have made great strides in balancing the two.

Militant, clearly you are not writing your own checks yet. You have no understanding of the value of time and money. Sure, a Range Rover SC Sport is more fun than a LX470. Just like a 5'11" super hot dumb blond is initially more fun than a 5'5" cute and intelligent brunette. But get back to me in one year on both of those.

Here's to wisdom or Daddy's trust fund.

55fanatic

great write ups, very informative... and the alpina site is in german?, I dont speak it, or read it

Erik

Thanks

You can chose English. Enjoy..

Hit the AUTOMOBILE choiche on page 1. Then choose ENGLISH from the meny.

55fanatic

I was agreeing with you as well that toyota and lexus can do performance, I was just stating a fact that the supra was designed primarily by the lexus engineers. In Japan the Supras and MR2s(of old) all had a pretty impressive racing history with the Denso sard supras and castrol tom's Supra. I actually heard they made some sick hybrid(not the prius dragster) that actually put down respectable number but probably wouldnt release it due to it being out of the mold... With there new scion line up, I think toyota may release some "sportier" more powerful engine/ car combinations. From what I heard the Celica was put on the chopping block so the toyota brand will not even have a so called sports car... with a little sport I think toyota with its lexus brand would do severe damage to the german empire with that record quality. Im waiting for the day they make a 400hp lexus sport sedan, lol. Itll prolly have a hybrid engine and will get 30miles to the gallon too, lol

55fanatic

nice cars... my dad has a 53 Mercedes E limosouine that we havent even begun to restore... it looks to be a fun and long project best suited for retirement, lol, the paint though is in near flawless condition, it has been sitting in this moisture free bubble he bought some time ago

Militant-Grunt

Just because im still under my fathers wings doesnt mean that I dont understand the "value of time and money". I work, pay a lot of college tuition out of my own pocket, and soon will be aquiring my own car with the money I earned. Don't make assumptions just because I am a teenager. My opinion stays, a range rover sport is in the same price bracket, as well as the same class. Your analogy is flawed.

fever

Look, Militant, until you start paying your own way you are speaking from a position of relative ignorance. That's okay but pay a little respect to experience and wisdom.

If you understood the value of time and money, opportunity costs, JD Power/Consumer Reports rankings on Ranger Rover vs Lexus you would understand the RR is not a slam dunk. You wouldn't be arguing with me.

When you make your own scratch, even if you're in the top two percent, the cost and nuisance of a Mercedes/RR vs. a Lexus is still a sizable decision if you watch your money. My analagy is spot on. The RR might be more fun but the repairs and depreciation are quite sizable next to the Lexus/Brunette.

Militant-Grunt

comparison between LX and RR HSE.

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/suv/112_0407_heart/

Not a slam dunk right?

Like I said. Reliability = Not a factor when you can afford 70k.

55fanatic

Yes Fever you are right, but what I think militant is trying to get across is that JD power and associates doesnt take in to account that the fun factor does add value to a vehicle. Some people find the fun factor worth it, otherwise no one would buy a mercedes. Fever I am also going to make a generalization(correct me if I am wrong, there is no insult intended here) you see a car as something to get you from point a to point b?

For example I am on my own for most of my bills(not 100% but enough) I own my ML55 I enjoy driving it, and my supra I take out to drive with no particular destinations in mind... I wouldnt take a lexus RX300 out to drive, sure its a lot more reliable but there is no value in its fun factor- this is what I think Militant is trying to get across to you.

Militant, I think what fever is trying to get accross is that some people want a car that will not give them headaches. A mercedes goes in to the shop all the time. For some people they dont value the fun factor as much as the functionality, reliability, and practicality factor... A lexus/toyota does not die, no matter how hard you try, I owned a 92 camry and my mom owned it since new, problems with it, almost none with 150k miles. 2000 ML55 that has 92k miles is nothing but a headache with a checkengine light that hasnt shut off for 2 years.

Toyota> current german line ups on reliability

55fanatic

some people dont want to deal with those issues on there every day vehicles

vraa

Keep it to the cars Let's leave parents and economical stability out of it.

There are no 'Lexus' engineers when they designed and created the Supra. In the end, they are all still employees of Toyota Global, which isn't a bad thing

MikeHK

I won't deny I like BMW, but I happen to be driving a Merc. I am just trying to state my opinion, no flame intended nor arguement intended.

fever

Say, Rick, the original thread asked the question about which SUV would you pick of three choices. Maintenance and upkeep was part of the "debate". It was quite germane to point out the economics of ownership.

355Spider

I have driven all 3 and none compares to the joy of driving the Infinity FX45. But I drive a 355 and an M3 so I like to drive.

vraa

So true, cost of ownership does play a large role, and if you bought those vehicles new (well tried to now) Mercedes would be at a large disadvantage because of the elimination of free maint

355Spider: I have yet to get a long term FX45. I long for one, but alas, none of my friends nor family have one they would let me borrow.

Militant-Grunt

The FX has a beautiful exaust note, every time I see one, I pause my mp3 player or roll down the window to hear it. Its just that nice.