AVB-AMG

I am the original owner of a 2007 ML63 AMG that currently has approx. 93,000 miles on it, primarily from highway driving. It has always been serviced by MB Dealerships, according to the factory recommended maintenance schedule.

Back in early Dec. 2014, while I had my vehicle at my MB Dealer undergoing its 90,000 mile servicing I had them also change/replace the engine serpentine poly V belt, as a precautionary measure, just to give me peace of mind.

After I picked up the vehicle from the Dealer and started to drive home, I heard a tapping/clicking sound coming from the engine bay. This was followed by smoke starting to flow out from the joint between the hood and fenders.

I stopped at a gas station, opened the hood and discovered that the new poly v belt had completely frayed, with one of the internal metal cord having sliced a gash in one of the coolant system hoses causing coolant/anti-freeze to spray inside the engine bay.

Since I was close to the Dealer I was able to make it back to them in limp mode. I was rather upset telling the Service Manager that apparently the poly v belt was probably not properly seated or the tensioner pulley may not have been adjusted correctly and that if they had let the engine run for just 15 minutes after they installed the poly v belt they would have discovered the problem and corrected it. The Service Manager was most apologetic and ensured me that they would correct the matter completely. To their credit, they installed a new poly v belt and one pulley and detailed my engine bay.

I drove the vehicle for about 2,700 miles since then until two weeks ago.
After a moderate snowfall I was shoveling snow from our driveway and decided to start both my wife's car and the ML63 to warm them up prior to our driving to our respective workplaces. While idling, I heard a slight tapping sound, opened the hood, expecting to see a deteriorating poly v belt, yet was relieved when it looked fine. Then the sound stopped and the engine sounded like it was idling normally.

I kept the vehicle idling, finished shoveling the snow, when inside and showered and as I was getting dressed for work, looked out the window and saw some smoke starting to seep out between the hood and fenders. I yelled to my wife to run outside and turn off the engine, which she did. Once I had put on my clothes, I went outside, opened the hood and discovered a disintegrated poly v belt....

Pissed and frustrated, I called MBrace explained the situation and requested a flatbed truck to be sent to our home. I also called my MB Dealer and told them what happened and to expect our imminent arrival in about an hour. Once at the Dealer, they were as perplexed as I was, put me in a loaner vehicle and said they would replace the poly v belt and any pulleys that they deemed necessary as well and would run the engine to test that everything is working properly with the new belt.

On my way to the Dealer the next morning, I received a tel call from them saying do not come. Apparently, while letting the engine idle to ensure that the belt is seating and tensioned properly, the engine just stalled out..... Why it died they did not know???? They would have their Service Shop Foreman investigate.

Later that day, they contacted me to say that they have contacted MBUSA and that one of their AMG engine specialists would come to the dealership to investigate the situation, but that they should drop the engine pan to see if there is anything in the oil that may possibly have caused the engine to stall out. When they did they discovered that a fragment or two of the poly v belt was inside, as well as part of the engine chain.

At this point, MBUSA opened a Case Number on the situation and authorized the Dealer to have a Senior Technician methodically disassemble the engine. They took photos and emailed them to the AMG engine specialist for further diagnosis. Now that the engine has been disassembled the specialist will return early next week for a personal inspection to determine what has been damaged, what most likely caused the damage and what needs to be done to repair it.

My MB extended warranty expired at 75,000 miles so the vehicle is not covered under any warranty. We will see what they ultimately come back to me to say the problem was and what their suggested repair options are.
Of course the big issue will be who will pay for whatever replacement parts are needed, as well as the time for a technician to install them and reassemble the engine. Essentially, this will be at the very least, a partial engine rebuild project.

I am curious what you all think.
1. Am I responsible for any, all or none of the cost to repair the engine?
2. If I am responsible for part of this cost, what percentage should I have to pay and what percentage should MBUSA and/or the MB Dealer pay?
3. What sort of warranty should they provide me on the repaired engine, (keeping in mind that I have approx. 93,000 miles on it)?

Thanks for reading all of this and let me know your thoughts.

AVB-AMG

vvrjrlaw

First the poly v belt should not have been inside the engine. Tell them you want to see it and take a picture. And an explanation is in order that makes sense to you. Mechanics is technical but it still has to make sense. The chain was appropriate but not in the bottom of the pan. I'm betting the chain let go or one of the guides broke and you have bent valves at least. I'm not familiar with the design of the 6.3 liter but the 5.5 liter will bend valves if the chain lets go. If nothing other than that is found to have occurred then unfortunately you may have to bite the bullet on the cost as one could argue that the chain is normal wear and tear but if it has been religiously serviced by MB they should have detected the noise that would be present on a start from the chain chatter. But if it is already torn down you may consider putting bearings and rings in it and then the engine is new essentially. And a 12 month 12k warranty would not be out of the question and if they are good it shouldn't matter whether the warranty is 1 month or 12 you shouldn't be back. I'm sorry for the issues you have.

PeterUbers

Hoping your loyalty to Benz and religious attention to maintenance of the 63 buys you some goodwill here as this will be a several thousand dollar bill of internal parts are damaged.

Agreed that one year warranty is reasonable on the engine but I would look to dump this truck soon... You got 8 years and 90k miles out of an amg ... That's a blessing in disguise and time to re-up and get a new or predriven one with a warranty/CPO

tifosiv122

Good luck with the upcoming fight.

I would have an independent mechanic inspect the vehicle as well - get their opinion on what happened.

Erik

EVOII_Racer

Damn that's a horrible story man i feel your pain!! This reminds of when my evo2 engine blew up it just sucks so
Much there are no words to explain!

I hope this story will have a happy ending! Imo mb mechanics did a mistake which ultimately laid to the engine failure but that just my 2 cents I am just a mb enthusiast not a mechanic (unfortunately)

AVB-AMG

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. Here is an update:

Yesterday late afternoon, I stopped by my MB Dealership to get an update on my 6.3 AMG engine failure. To find out what they had determined caused the failure, what engine parts were damaged, it the engine is able to be rebuilt and, if so, what would be the total cost for parts and labor and finally and most importantly, who would pay what towards this cost.

I met with my Dealer’s Service Manger who had told me via telephone several days earlier that they had disassembled the engine and the MB AMG engine specialist responsible for the east coast of the USA had come to the Dealership to inspect the engine. They had also forwarded photos of the damaged parts to AMG in Affalterbach in Germany for their review of this issue. The damaged parts were the broken timing chain and the front cover plates, (two parts) of the engine. The consensus was that none of these engine experts had ever seen anything like this before and could not figure out how parts of the poly v belt could have entered the engine, nor why this failure occurred.

They can rebuild the engine and all of the necessary parts are available to replace the damaged parts. The final challenge will be to ensure that they can obtain one of the front cover plates since their global search for this part indicated that in the entire MB global Dealer and supply network there is only one (1) remaining example of this part in the world and it is at the AMG facility in Affalterbach. They will know by early next week if they can obtain it. I was told that the total cost of purchasing the necessary new replacement parts along with the labor costs to rebuild and reassemble this engine would total just over $20,000 (US).

After further internal discussion of this and my being a M-B owner for over 41 years (having purchased my 1961 M-B 190SL in 1974 as the second owner), being an active member of the MB Club of America, having traveled to Germany with the MBCA to visit the M-B factory and museum in Stuttgart, and the AMG engine assembly plant in Affalterbach, along with what they have told me is one of the best maintained 8 year old ML63 AMG's that is otherwise in excellent condition, they have decided that MBUSA and my M-B Dealer would absorb and split the entire cost of rebuilding the AMG engine for me.

Once they have secured their ability to obtain this one remaining new replacement engine part they will order the remaining parts and start the rebuilding process and then do a thorough testing of the rebuilt engine to ensure its proper operation. All of this will take approx. 3-4 weeks so I should have my vehicle back by the end of March. In the mean time, I have had and will continue to have the use of a 2014 ML350 with 4Matic which is key for the nasty snowy roads in the NJ/NY region this winter.

I was told that they want to give me a one year / 12,000 mile warranty on the rebuilt engine, but in order for them to give that to me, due to their corporate policy requirements, that I would have to pay them something. They asked if I would be willing to pay $100 to them so they could issue this warranty. I did not hesitate to say that I would gladly pay them this amount for the warranty and that I was very, very pleased with their proposed resolution and that it was most fair and acceptable and would certainly influence me when it comes time to replace my vehicle with a new one.

If anything changes I will update this thread, but at this point I am very relieved and thankful that this strange episode will have a happy ending and am thrilled and most appreciative with my MB Dealer and MBUSA for resolving this situation in a most satisfactory manner. My goal had been to keep this vehicle until it has reached the 100,000 mile milestone and then sell it and purchase a new similar vehicle, sometime in late spring of 2016. I am still planning on doing that, with the added peace of mind of a warranty on the engine that will expire just at the point when I am ready to sell. (If any members of this forum are interested in possibly purchasing this vehicle from me at that time, let me know… Thanks!)

AVB-AMG

vvrjrlaw

Oh Heavenly Father you are real and I thank you for your intercession with this dealer and mother Benz.!

AVB-AMG

Here is an update. On 3/30/15, I finally was able to get my 2007 ML63 AMG back from my M-B Dealer who rebuilt the M156 engine. My Dealer had given me a 2014 ML350 as a loaner back on 2/02/15. I have been using that vehicle as my daily driver for the two worst winter months and put approx. 2,500 miles on it, returning it on 3/30.

After the technicians removed the engine from my ML63 AMG they had found a crack in the engine cover behind the balancer. They broke down the engine and discovered that the oil pump chain, crank sprocket, right side intake camshaft and adjuster were all damaged as well.

They replaced those damaged parts, as well as the right side cylinder head and both head gaskets; both intake and exhaust cam adjusters; crank seal: camshaft cover; all head bolts with the later/improved design; lifters; timing case cover; oil pump; main bearing bolts; intake gaskets; water pump gaskets; vacuum transducer gaskets; exhaust manifold gaskets; and the forward cam bearings.

They then reinstalled and hooked up everything, installed new fluids and filters and finally performed a pressure test which was normal.

The M-B AMG Engine Specialist returned to the Dealership and took the completed vehicle for a test drive for over 30 miles and detected a slight vibration from the engine. He recommended that the engine mounts and transmission mounts also be replaced, which they were. All in all, the approximate total costs for all replacement parts and labor to disassemble and rebuild the engine reached almost $24,000. The Dealer then had a complete detail performed on the vehicle, inside the engine compartment, undercarriage, exterior body and interior.

As they had promised, I was only responsible for paying $100 + 7% NJ Sales Tax of $7 for a total cost to me of $107, in order for MBUSA and my M-B Dealer to give me a 1-Year warranty on the engine, which I gladly paid. I thanked the Dealer’s Service Manager and my Service Advisor who both went to bat for me with MBUSA an make the case that I should not have to pay for the major engine overhaul / rebuild parts or labor costs.

As a result, both MBUSA and my M-B Dealer have cemented and reinforced a strong relationship with me so that once I have reached the approximate 100,000 mile milestone sometime in the spring of 2016 with this vehicle and will be ready to replace it, it will most likely be with another Mercedes-Benz.
I realize that I am very, very lucky here since my MBUSA extended warranty had expired a year prior and have learned the lesson that if one is going to have an AMG vehicle that it is vital to have it covered under the original MB warranty or their extended warranty. Otherwise, one is gambling and runs the risk of some very, very expensive repair bills.

AVB-AMG

Kamisama

Happy to see your results were awesome. I think the above is the clue to how the belt fragment entered the engine. A piece of the belt ended up in the engine via the hole in the coolant system hose during the first episode. The piece wreaked havoc from there until the engine failed.

red60R

how's the truck running almost a year later?

AVB-AMG

Red60R:

Thanks for asking…
Right now, my 2007 ML63 AMG is running fine.

But… back in early February, the “Check Engine” light illuminated on the dashboard. I took the ML63 to my M-B Dealer who checked and received a fault code indicating a vacuum leak somewhere. They discovered a cracked plastic air intake housing which they replaced, but still got the same code. They then told me that they determined that the gas tank was bad and needed to be replaced at a cost of around $1,700.

That was when I started to get very irritated! I told them that in August 2015, when I received a “Check Engine” light, the diagnosed and replaced both fuel pumps, which are inside the fuel tank. If there is now an issue with the fuel tank it was most likely their doing, since fuel tanks do not usually go bad. They said they would pay for the fuel tank parts and installation labor but wanted me to pay them $675 for their Technician’s time to diagnose the problem(s). I refused….

Ultimately, they said they would not charge me anything, but this is the last “Good Will” they will extend to me on this vehicle, now with approx. 102,000 miles on it, which is fine by me.

Then two weeks ago the “Check Engine” light appeared once again. Now having lost faith and confidence in the abilities of the Service Department at my local M-B Dealer, I took the vehicle to Mercedes-Benz of Manhattan, since I work in NYC. That Dealership is owned and operated by MBUSA and is not a franchise. They quickly diagnosed the problem as a vacuum leak that was caused by a vacuum hose that was disconnected. They reconnected it and only charged me $168, their standard fee for any service diagnostic work on any car brought to them. Their Service Shop Foreman asked if he could drive my vehicle home that evening so he could ensure that the Check Engine light did not reappear the next morning after a cold start. I said he could and the light did not come back on. So at this point, so far so good….

I plan to drive the ML63 for the next six months and then sell it this fall. I really like this vehicle but the mechanical issues that started in Feb. 2015 have really made me realize that I should not and will not ever own an AMG or BMW M-Series that is out of either the original manufacturer’s warranty or their extended warranty.

FYI - After driving both a 2016 M-B GLE63s AMG and a 2016 BMW X5M, I have decided to order the X5M, something that I had not originally intended to do. I have had two prior X5's which I really liked.
The X5M, comparably equipped compared to the GLE63s AMG, is about $12,000 less expensive and from the recent car magazine comparison tests, is a faster accelerating vehicle than the M-B. Plus, I have had a good experience purchasing and driving my 2014 BMW M6 Coupe and like the BMW Dealer and their Service Dept. Therefore, time to make a switch back to BMW for the next 3 years.
It will be fun having both my 2007 ML63 AMG and the 2016 BMW X5M side-by-side in my driveway for the summer months as a nice comparison of performance SUV's.

AVB-AMG

red60R

I sold my ML last Sunday and got a used E63S. Definitely a different type of animal. I'll miss the SUV status (beach, snow, roominess) but the power and handling is ridiculous. I'm sure this will get me through summer quite nicely and if I throw winter tires on it could go through next winter as well. Warranty is good through 1/18 so that is usually way more than I tend to keep a car. Totally agree with you, you HAVE to have a warranty on these cars for self protection. Mine on the ML saved my butt a bunch of times. Granted, I was at 118k when I sold it so I shouldn't really complain. It was running strong still at the end when I traded. Good luck with the X5M, I've seen a few at the local dealer here in Sterling and they're pretty sharp.

ML63 AMG

Congrats on X5M...

I am slowly coming to the decision I have to sell the ML63 soon too. I love the beast, but times have changed and the 2007 model is lacking a lot of the new technology.

Originally I planned on getting the ML63, then the GLE63... But now I have decided on getting the GLC43. It's almost 1200 lbs lighter and will handle miles better than even my heavily modified ML63. And with a basic ECU tune it will have just as much torque, so the sucker should be lightening quick.

I will miss the V8 burble, but times are changing and he GLC43 interior is miles better than any of the ML63. Plus, the new GLC has heads up display and all sorts of new technologies including autonomous driving aides which will make long road trips a breeze.