CEC's HMS Supercharger??
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 136
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From: Cleveland Ohio
2000 Clk 430
It's HPS and carried and installed by CEC. I talked to them at length...they were supossed to send me a brochure but never did. I don't remember their price but was cheaper than Kleemann. I also remember no aftercooler. I beleive they told me it is totally bolt-on while Kleemann has to drill a hole in the oil pan, etc. I think they were the ones looking for a guinia pig! I made a post more in detail earlier in the year..
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 272
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From: Olympia, Washington
KLEEMANN C230K
no-klasse
The blower you are talking about is a roots type, not as efficient (cost per HP, boost/drag, and heat) and it is ugly. AND it produces 55 HP less! Not what I would put in my $45k+ masterpiece of german engineering. It can be seen @ http://www.myhps.com/system.html[/URL] Judge for yourself.
Last edited by dj-po; Dec 6, 2001 at 02:32 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 272
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From: Olympia, Washington
KLEEMANN C230K
KLEEMANN, KLEEMANN, KLEEMANN!!!!!
Why would anyone put anything less in their M/B?
Anything less would be sacrilege. If I could dump the Eaton in my rig I would. I would much rather have the screw type Opcon, especially if it came w/ the Laminova water-to-air intercooler.
Anything less would be sacrilege. If I could dump the Eaton in my rig I would. I would much rather have the screw type Opcon, especially if it came w/ the Laminova water-to-air intercooler.
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 272
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From: Olympia, Washington
KLEEMANN C230K
JamE55
Well ,where to start? First of all, I LOVE the kit! My car is a '99 w/ many miles. The kit consists of a new overdrive crank pulley, an underdrive pulley for the alternator, new belt, spark plugs in the correct heat range for the kit, and a new pipe to relocate the mass air-flow sensor closer to the throttle body (only nesessary on older models). This kit KICKS @SS! It's the best thing for the C230K, I researched for a while, and had decided on the Brabus K-1 kit. Then I talked to a friend at a VW tuner shop that had met and talked w/ Brandon from KLEEMANN. He told me to wait and talk to Brandon. After talking over the options with him I decided to go KLEEMANN. .... ... .. . The best $ I've spent since I decided to buy this car. I can't say enough about it. I'm hooked!!!!
KLEEMANN IS THE SH*T !!
Sorry 'bout that, but it had to be said.
John
P.S. The kit also comes w/ a nifty KLEEMANN badge for the trunk
Well ,where to start? First of all, I LOVE the kit! My car is a '99 w/ many miles. The kit consists of a new overdrive crank pulley, an underdrive pulley for the alternator, new belt, spark plugs in the correct heat range for the kit, and a new pipe to relocate the mass air-flow sensor closer to the throttle body (only nesessary on older models). This kit KICKS @SS! It's the best thing for the C230K, I researched for a while, and had decided on the Brabus K-1 kit. Then I talked to a friend at a VW tuner shop that had met and talked w/ Brandon from KLEEMANN. He told me to wait and talk to Brandon. After talking over the options with him I decided to go KLEEMANN. .... ... .. . The best $ I've spent since I decided to buy this car. I can't say enough about it. I'm hooked!!!!
KLEEMANN IS THE SH*T !!
Sorry 'bout that, but it had to be said.
John
P.S. The kit also comes w/ a nifty KLEEMANN badge for the trunk
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Former Vendor of MBWorld
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Kleemann Kompressor
The KLEEMANN Kompressor system does not require that you drill a hole in the oil pan. The drain back from the kompressor is through a braided stainless steel line with threaded fittings at either end. The oil dipstick tube is replaced with a modified factory unit ( male thread brazed onto the tube, zinc chromate plated ). Every aspect of a KLEEMANN kompressor installation is carried out from the top side of the engine bay.
Compare pictures and specificatiuons of both units side by side, then make your own decision.
Compare pictures and specificatiuons of both units side by side, then make your own decision.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 272
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From: Olympia, Washington
KLEEMANN C230K
Well, I haven't put it on the dyno yet, but will in the next week or two (sorry Brandon, I know I promised) and I'll post the results immediately. But, the kit is supposed to produce 230 HP. Not sure of the torque, once again I'll post the results soon. As for the rest, check https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...=&threadid=912 for more info. I will bring it to meet sometime, just have to find one closer to me i.e. northern cali'ish.
John...
John...
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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Clarification
dj-po has a C230K kompressor upgrade system, not an 8 cylinder.
JamE55-
You say you are sold except for the price- when compared to ANY other tuner out there KLEEMANN represents the best dollar to hp value.
Some whould say that manufacturers charge what the market will bear- and on some accounts I would agree.
Take a look at many of the centerfugal compressor systems- they are little more than CNC brackets and off the shlef compressor units using commonly available pipe and hose unions. They should be inexpensive, there just isnt that much there. Yet some MBZ tuning companies charge $13,000 for this type of system.
Now take a look at a KLEEMANN system. Every single alloy part has been CAD/CAM designed, mocked up in thermo plastic and tested for fit. Modifications to the design are made until the prototype plastic parts fit perfectly. Sand casting molds are made for mass production of parts. Our manifold casting has over 10 individual cores and outer sections, a highly complicated part. Due to its complexity the rejection rate of out of tolerance parts is higher than usual. This process is the only way to deliver factory quality parts. Expensive? Yes- The best quality on the market? Yes-
Our customers have purchased the finest vehicle money can buy, regardless of model. It is our intention to provide only the highest quality tuning solutions available at any price.
What about a $20,000 tuning solution that provides 30 hp over stock? Or how about a $20,000 engine that provides 61hp over stock?
JamE55-
You say you are sold except for the price- when compared to ANY other tuner out there KLEEMANN represents the best dollar to hp value.
Some whould say that manufacturers charge what the market will bear- and on some accounts I would agree.
Take a look at many of the centerfugal compressor systems- they are little more than CNC brackets and off the shlef compressor units using commonly available pipe and hose unions. They should be inexpensive, there just isnt that much there. Yet some MBZ tuning companies charge $13,000 for this type of system.
Now take a look at a KLEEMANN system. Every single alloy part has been CAD/CAM designed, mocked up in thermo plastic and tested for fit. Modifications to the design are made until the prototype plastic parts fit perfectly. Sand casting molds are made for mass production of parts. Our manifold casting has over 10 individual cores and outer sections, a highly complicated part. Due to its complexity the rejection rate of out of tolerance parts is higher than usual. This process is the only way to deliver factory quality parts. Expensive? Yes- The best quality on the market? Yes-
Our customers have purchased the finest vehicle money can buy, regardless of model. It is our intention to provide only the highest quality tuning solutions available at any price.
What about a $20,000 tuning solution that provides 30 hp over stock? Or how about a $20,000 engine that provides 61hp over stock?
Former Vendor of MBWorld
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Posts: 930
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Continued-
KLEEMANN has 3 objectives in mind with our kompressor system: Quality, Reliablity and Power.
Our systems provide the best power at the lowest boost pressures. We have hundreds of thousands of miles on our kompressor systems with out failures. We are CARB certified- Who else has this kind of track record?
You can drive one of our kompressor cars all day at the track and then drive it home- I drove our E32K 1,100 miles to California, the car was driven all day at Willow Springs, then I drove it 1,100 miles back to Colorado- without incident. Our E32K has 27,000 miles on the clock in 6 months! Everyone from magazine editors to racers have driven it as hard as they please- Ive changed the oil and put gasoline in the tank (OK maybe I put a few sets of tires on it too :-) ).
You get what you pay for.
Our systems provide the best power at the lowest boost pressures. We have hundreds of thousands of miles on our kompressor systems with out failures. We are CARB certified- Who else has this kind of track record?
You can drive one of our kompressor cars all day at the track and then drive it home- I drove our E32K 1,100 miles to California, the car was driven all day at Willow Springs, then I drove it 1,100 miles back to Colorado- without incident. Our E32K has 27,000 miles on the clock in 6 months! Everyone from magazine editors to racers have driven it as hard as they please- Ive changed the oil and put gasoline in the tank (OK maybe I put a few sets of tires on it too :-) ).
You get what you pay for.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 894
Likes: 1
The only thing stopping me from getting the supercharger is the price. Tho, I have to agree, the Kleemann supercharger is a much better value than many of the other Mercedes Tuner's options (cough Brabus). And the Kleemann guys do prove a point, they drive their car pretty damn hard and it still holds up. A testament to good engineering from both Mercedes and Kleemann.
I'm saving up my pennies!
I'm saving up my pennies!
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 21,014
Likes: 2
From: CA, NV, CO
Kleemann
I completely agree and understand that your Kompressor system is the best value for $$$$$ and like what i said i'm sold. Now just need to save up some $$$$$ so i can get one!!
BTW That silver E55k(one at the Willow Spring) which i rode in is a true sleeper! I loved the power and that's how i got sold!
Talking about the one below!!
I completely agree and understand that your Kompressor system is the best value for $$$$$ and like what i said i'm sold. Now just need to save up some $$$$$ so i can get one!!
BTW That silver E55k(one at the Willow Spring) which i rode in is a true sleeper! I loved the power and that's how i got sold!
Talking about the one below!!
Last edited by JamE55; Dec 7, 2001 at 03:27 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Beautiful Ft Myers FL
1999 C230K
Hate to burst bubbles here, but
the C230K has a twin screw blower, the eaton is a twin screw blower, and the kleemann is a roots style or screw blower also. I dont know where you got the info from, but the twin screw (roots) blower is the most efficient made. Notice I didnt say it makes the most power. But the torque is incredible. i have a modified Kenne Bell on my mustang (www.yellow95.corral.net) and my stock C230K (www.black99c230k.corral.net)).
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 272
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From: Olympia, Washington
KLEEMANN C230K
First of all
The KLEEMANN kit is NOT a roots-type, it IS in fact a Lysholm type supercharger. These two ARE DIFFERENT!!
Check with KLEEMANN, they'll give you the heads up on their system.
following info found at http://bimmer.roadfly.com/z3/message...w47/18277.html
First off the "roots" type and "Lysholm" are different. They are both fixed displacement superchargers but the internal design is very different.
A fixed displacement supercharger doesn't depend on engine RPM to produce boost so it will have better low RPM boost. But most designs are not very thermally efficient (the "roots" design is the worst). This causes the air temperature to be raised and lower the air density (increasing the air density is the whole goal behind any positive induction system). The "Lysholm screw" design is the most thermally efficient fixed displacement supercharger out there (it is also the most expensive to produce).
John.
Check with KLEEMANN, they'll give you the heads up on their system.
following info found at http://bimmer.roadfly.com/z3/message...w47/18277.html
First off the "roots" type and "Lysholm" are different. They are both fixed displacement superchargers but the internal design is very different.
A fixed displacement supercharger doesn't depend on engine RPM to produce boost so it will have better low RPM boost. But most designs are not very thermally efficient (the "roots" design is the worst). This causes the air temperature to be raised and lower the air density (increasing the air density is the whole goal behind any positive induction system). The "Lysholm screw" design is the most thermally efficient fixed displacement supercharger out there (it is also the most expensive to produce).
John.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: Olympia, Washington
KLEEMANN C230K
this is how I learn
That's what this forum is here for!!
I forgot to mention the best part of the KLEEMANN kit. The integrated water/air intercooler, one of it's greatest features, increasing it's efficiency exponentially. Making for the BEST KIT ON THE MARKET
John.
I forgot to mention the best part of the KLEEMANN kit. The integrated water/air intercooler, one of it's greatest features, increasing it's efficiency exponentially. Making for the BEST KIT ON THE MARKET
John.
Last edited by dj-po; Dec 10, 2001 at 09:00 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Beautiful Ft Myers FL
1999 C230K
You two can continue the lovefest, and stay in denial if you like, but..
All the blowers you talked about are roots or screw blowers. Maybe Kleemann's is more efficient, I aint doubting that. But roots are more efficient than centrifugal and turbos when it comes to heat. Anytime you compress air, you will get heat. The pic of the sc on the E, thats a roots blower.
DJ- the pic you posted, roots style. Open them up you will find 2 screws.
Gary
DJ- the pic you posted, roots style. Open them up you will find 2 screws.
Gary
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 290
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From: Ashland, Ohio
ex-C32
Tech update
black99/dj-po, here are two links from McMullen Argus Publishing who publish European Car and Sport Compact Car. Read each article as they do differ slightly.
I guess when your stateing most efficient blower the RPM range should be stated. The roots is the least efficient at lower RPMs. As the RPMs rise the roots is followed by the twin screws(this is why it is used in the SLK 32 and C32) since peak power is created near 6000 RPMs on these cars) and lastly the centrifugal which operates the best at higher RPMs.
http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/0501tech1.shtml
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ar...ech02_0701.jsp
Norm
I guess when your stateing most efficient blower the RPM range should be stated. The roots is the least efficient at lower RPMs. As the RPMs rise the roots is followed by the twin screws(this is why it is used in the SLK 32 and C32) since peak power is created near 6000 RPMs on these cars) and lastly the centrifugal which operates the best at higher RPMs.
http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/0501tech1.shtml
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ar...ech02_0701.jsp
Norm
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
W211 E55
Whatever type the Kleemann's are, they rock...
I had the pleasure of chasing Brandon in his E320K and Harald in the CLK430K back from the Willow Springs event last month. I also had the chance to drive both cars.
They are amazing! Phenomenal off the line, great handling, torque wherever you look. Yet, wonderfully driveable cars. They may not be the most expensive modification, but they are essence of well-balanced performance that retains the MB feel that every great MB tuner strives for.
-Carl
(P.S. Did I mention the three of us were trailing a Vector W8 through traffic? It was a fun drive...)
They are amazing! Phenomenal off the line, great handling, torque wherever you look. Yet, wonderfully driveable cars. They may not be the most expensive modification, but they are essence of well-balanced performance that retains the MB feel that every great MB tuner strives for.
-Carl
(P.S. Did I mention the three of us were trailing a Vector W8 through traffic? It was a fun drive...)
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 436
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From: So Cal
Re: Whatever type the Kleemann's are, they rock...
Originally posted by CGenberg
I had the pleasure of chasing Brandon in his E320K and Harald in the CLK430K back from the Willow Springs event last month.
(P.S. Did I mention the three of us were trailing a Vector W8 through traffic? It was a fun drive...)
I had the pleasure of chasing Brandon in his E320K and Harald in the CLK430K back from the Willow Springs event last month.
(P.S. Did I mention the three of us were trailing a Vector W8 through traffic? It was a fun drive...)
I also saw your 560SEC at Willow Springs. Very nice.
