Buellwinkle

Vadim, did you disable/bypass the heater core in the windshield washer tank?


Brandon, I wasn't refering to the alloy pulleys as those are CNC machined to tight tolerances, I was reffering to adding a ring, as finely machined and balanced as it is to a marginally balanced factory pulley/damper and then not re-balancing the entire assembly again. And I'm not saying this happens normally, just an odd factory pulley that's a little more off than normal and by adding a ring it throws it even more off balance.

Brandon @ Kleemann

C'mon Buell- you want to argue about crank forces causing a SC failure and you ask this? The engine coolant loop will bring the windscreen fluid to nearly 70 C. Its eliminated in the EvoSport set up.

Brandon @ Kleemann

You are dancing now- respond to our original debate, yes?

Buellwinkle

Sorry, I responded by editing the response above to consolidate the posts.

amgme

jerry,

what statement are you referring to? somehow i don't see anything that implies that.

Brandon @ Kleemann

Buell-

Im not rying to be a jerk here but follow for a moment:

You have REPEATEDLY suggested or even ASSERTED that additional mass on the orignal crank pulley is of no concern- even DCX has backed you on this.

Diesel engines routinely run for 300K before a major failure, at 23+:1 CR, why? SPEED my friend. I will restate again (check it out with Corky Bell, an authority on most things concerning forced induction, among others) a bearing wears at the square of the speed at which it turns. Turn it twice as fast and it wears out 4 times as quickly.

You have single handedly created the knock off revolution without culpability. Tuners big pulleys cost too much, local USA company makes same dimension part, yahoo. Local boys part fails and recoils to EU tuners mainstay. Failures less severe than local boys sparks doubt in big pulley theroy, yet local boy continues big pulley for the third revision (just cant seem to make it stay together).

Buellwinkle

Again, I'm not talking about additional mass on the crank, I'm talking about a factory pulley that's been balanced by whoever makes them for MB to a specified tolerence which according to the pulley installation instructions calls for less than .6 mm of axial runout and less than .6mm of radial runout. What I'm saying is that if you have .6mm of axial runout and your add diameter to the pulley in the way of a ring, the runout at the edge of that diameter, where the belt goes, will be greater than what the spec allows. What other tuners like Vaeth and Renntech do to makeup for this is to re-balance the pulley/ring combination. What I've seen is a factory pulley, Linh's to be specific that they had trouble re-balancing. If he just added a ring, even one that was perfectly balanced, it would have exagerated the axial runout and this may (or may not) cause a problem.

Sorry, just trying not to make the same mistake.

Brandon @ Kleemann

OK- another analogy time.

Tie a rubber rope to a 20lbs weight. Pull on it as hard as you can, it moves toward you, but not much because most of your energy is exerted is stretching the rope. Now, shake it side to side while pulling the rope. The rope takes all the energy, transferring virtually none of it to the 20 lbs weight. The rope only tranfers energy in straight line tension.

The MBZ pulley is solid from the hub to the belt plane (as you know) its CNC'd just like any pulley is. The dead mass is pressed on over a rubber isolator and its balanced (dynamic). Adding additional mass does not complicate the balancing process as it is not speed dependant. I will make the argument that the crank pulley could be 3mm out of true and you would never even KNOW.

A ROOTS sc is older than you and I combined- do you reallly think its "sensative" to drive source run-out? If it was we would have lost the war.

Brandon @ Kleemann

The more I read your post the more insane it becomes. You talk about run out then say Vaeth or RT re-balances the assembly? What on earth does balance have to do with run out? You can pefectly balance a pulley that has 200mm of run out, and is 1000mm in diameter. Its orbit is predictable and known, much like a wheel and tire combination.

Mach430

Jerry,

What you are saying is actually a very general statment for any upgrade. This is why it is important that you can trust who you are buying your products from. If they are not developed correctly, anything can fail!

From our testing we found that while increasing the crank pulley diameter does add additional power, it also risks engine detonation and overdrives the engine's accessories. This is why we took our kit further, by bringing the engine's accessories back to normal rpm's, and added the IC reservoir upgrade to avoid detonation. The result of our kit is an unaffected a/f ratio, no detonation, and no overdriven accessories to the engine. We wanted to make this upgrade as safe as possible, and quite frankly, without these extra steps, you would be cheating yourself.

Let's talk next week, I can explain each step of our r&d to you, and clarify why and how our choices were made.


Thanks,
Ben

SteveL

I guess we'll see when vadim posts a pic of the filter.

Water wetter is intended to be used with water and antifreeze, not just pure antifreeze. Why would anyone think of using it with just antifreeze. Even in a 50/50 water/antifreeze mix, it will reduce coolant temps.

Can you provide some data to back this up about Amsoil or are you just speculating. Careful, Amsoil might come after you for liable.

Anyway, I'm done with this forum. We can't discuss things without getting all emotional. Clearly as long as everyone agrees with you, everything is OK, otherwise we are being accussed of slander/liable, give me a break.

Vadim, you have always been a class act and I appreciate that. Good luck with your research.

SiLvaC32

thanks Ben for the explaination. by saying you have an unaffected a/f ratio... is that even possible by the stock intake system? the stock system only takes in so much air... and by adding on the pulley = more fuel going into the engine. does unaffected mean not running lean? sorry... im a nub!

this is the way i see it though... ASP makes 3 pulleys = 600 bux? am i correct? and EVOSPORT makes 6 pulleys + IC upgrade for 1500. if ASP can prove things by a nice dyno graph (repeated runs also?) to prove if heat soak will be non-exsistant. THAN.... EVOSPORT will have some serious competition.

oh yea... i saw it on benzworld... SL55's intake on our car will be 12HP and 14lb of torque at the wheels. the guy hasn't proved it though... but it does sound tempting!

Jerry

otoupalik

Nope, it is intended to be used with water only, as per my original comment. Antifreeze does only that - keeps the water from freezing. You get no additionla cooling with "coolant/antifreeze" - the BEST protection is water with 1 bottle of water wetter. Of course you have to live in a place where temps will not get too low.

Thanks

Brad