HPS... What is with deleting your thread?
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From: Los Angeles
Originally posted by Turbo][
As far as I can tell, the V6 application seems far inferior to the V8 counterparts. I will definitely go V8 for my next project.
So as a Kleemann owner you feel their V6 application is inferior to their V8. Why? did you have problems with your Kleemann S/C? I thought the application were "universal".
ALso, the WHP claim, is that a guestimate, or you have that in writing? And if you do have that in black/white, what did Kleemann have to say on that Dyno run?
BTW: How long did it take for Evosport, if you purchased from them, to install your S/C unit?
As far as I can tell, the V6 application seems far inferior to the V8 counterparts. I will definitely go V8 for my next project.
So as a Kleemann owner you feel their V6 application is inferior to their V8. Why? did you have problems with your Kleemann S/C? I thought the application were "universal".
ALso, the WHP claim, is that a guestimate, or you have that in writing? And if you do have that in black/white, what did Kleemann have to say on that Dyno run?
BTW: How long did it take for Evosport, if you purchased from them, to install your S/C unit?
How long did it take evosport? About 2-3 weeks.
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I'm not trying to put words in your mouth so correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying:
You had the Kleemann V6 SC installed in your car. There was a problem with it. You brought it to Evosport under warranty. They dyno'd it and got a low RWHP figure and agreed that there was a problem with the system in your car so Kleemann replaced the entire system. The system was replaced and you have had no problems since the replacement. You care more about the show than the go anyway, however, next time you are going to start with a V8 (smart move).
I'm not sure why you don't have post-replacement dyno numbers.
You had the Kleemann V6 SC installed in your car. There was a problem with it. You brought it to Evosport under warranty. They dyno'd it and got a low RWHP figure and agreed that there was a problem with the system in your car so Kleemann replaced the entire system. The system was replaced and you have had no problems since the replacement. You care more about the show than the go anyway, however, next time you are going to start with a V8 (smart move).
I'm not sure why you don't have post-replacement dyno numbers.
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From: So.Cal
98 E430
I see. So the whole unit was replaced. Wow that's pretty serious amount of work. So I guess the first unit was defective? Or it was something else? Did they ever tell you what it was wrong from the beginning?
Are there new Dyno # since the replaced SC?
Are there new Dyno # since the replaced SC?
Member
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Originally posted by Lucas
Adam
Your explanation on MB ESP systems
I must say I am impressed of your knowlegde about the cars you are working with
Seek proffesionel help
Adam
Your explanation on MB ESP systems
I must say I am impressed of your knowlegde about the cars you are working with
Seek proffesionel help
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From: Los Angeles
Originally posted by Sleestack
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth so correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying:
You had the Kleemann V6 SC installed in your car. There was a problem with it. You brought it to Evosport under warranty. They dyno'd it and got a low RWHP figure and agreed that there was a problem with the system in your car so Kleemann replaced the entire system. The system was replaced and you have had no problems since the replacement. You care more about the show than the go anyway, however, next time you are going to start with a V8 (smart move).
I'm not sure why you don't have post-replacement dyno numbers.
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth so correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying:
You had the Kleemann V6 SC installed in your car. There was a problem with it. You brought it to Evosport under warranty. They dyno'd it and got a low RWHP figure and agreed that there was a problem with the system in your car so Kleemann replaced the entire system. The system was replaced and you have had no problems since the replacement. You care more about the show than the go anyway, however, next time you are going to start with a V8 (smart move).
I'm not sure why you don't have post-replacement dyno numbers.
Here is what occured chronologically.
1. Installed Kleemann (took ~3 weeks)
2. Dyno'd 240HP-ish
3. Broke in for ~1500 miles
4. Dyno'd at 247-249
5. Discovered grinding sound
6. Kleemann replaced (took another ~3 weeks)
7. Where I stand today (no recurrance of grinding problem, gave up on figuring out why Kleemann's 210 made more HP than mine)
Would I spend the $10k for the G3 all over again if I could?
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No
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Nubomb
What are you starving after my friend ????
If you want me to explain in public how you dyno a MB car with ASR or ESP so it's not interfearing with the dyno result........ :o
Come on !!!!!! Adam is an adult ( at least I think ), I will not waist
2 sec. writing anything he can use, to me it sounds like he have to learn a lot and he must learn it the hard way.
Leave it to pros. Who knows what they are doing, Adam for sure don't
What are you starving after my friend ????
If you want me to explain in public how you dyno a MB car with ASR or ESP so it's not interfearing with the dyno result........ :o
Come on !!!!!! Adam is an adult ( at least I think ), I will not waist
2 sec. writing anything he can use, to me it sounds like he have to learn a lot and he must learn it the hard way.
Leave it to pros. Who knows what they are doing, Adam for sure don't
Member
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Originally posted by Lucas
Nubomb
What are you starving after my friend ????
If you want me to explain in public how you dyno a MB car with ASR or ESP so it's not interfearing with the dyno result........ :o
Come on !!!!!! Adam is an adult ( at least I think ), I will not waist
2 sec. writing anything he can use, to me it sounds like he have to learn a lot and he must learn it the hard way.
Leave it to pros. Who knows what they are doing, Adam for sure don't
Nubomb
What are you starving after my friend ????
If you want me to explain in public how you dyno a MB car with ASR or ESP so it's not interfearing with the dyno result........ :o
Come on !!!!!! Adam is an adult ( at least I think ), I will not waist
2 sec. writing anything he can use, to me it sounds like he have to learn a lot and he must learn it the hard way.
Leave it to pros. Who knows what they are doing, Adam for sure don't
I said knowledge...FACTS! It must be a communication breakdown?
If you are going to call someone an idiot, at least explain your point to us non pros. I am sure you can do it in a way that won't come across as boring.
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From: So.Cal
98 E430
Originally posted by Hank
No no, the problem was with the drive shaft. It made a grinding noise during operation.
Here is what occured chronologically.
1. Installed Kleemann (took ~3 weeks)
2. Dyno'd 240HP-ish
3. Broke in for ~1500 miles
4. Dyno'd at 247-249
5. Discovered grinding sound
6. Kleemann replaced (took another ~3 weeks)
7. Where I stand today (no recurrance of grinding problem, gave up on figuring out why Kleemann's 210 made more HP than mine)
Would I spend the $10k for the G3 all over again if I could?
.
.
.
No
No no, the problem was with the drive shaft. It made a grinding noise during operation.
Here is what occured chronologically.
1. Installed Kleemann (took ~3 weeks)
2. Dyno'd 240HP-ish
3. Broke in for ~1500 miles
4. Dyno'd at 247-249
5. Discovered grinding sound
6. Kleemann replaced (took another ~3 weeks)
7. Where I stand today (no recurrance of grinding problem, gave up on figuring out why Kleemann's 210 made more HP than mine)
Would I spend the $10k for the G3 all over again if I could?
.
.
.
No
We have Hank a Kleemann user that is somewhat dissatisfy with his purchase. Than we have Timster which is dissatisfy with his HPS purchased. Sounds like the score is 1 vs 1. I AM SURE there are MORE Kleemann owners that are dissatisfy by the product, but probably have been "quieted"...........UMMMMMMMMM
My point is, I don't think neither the product is grade A. So why do the people argue about them being so???
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Originally posted by HPS (Adam)
I’ve been involved with at least 14 vehicles s/c and dyno at Magnuson Products in Ventura. Each time we would start off in 1st gear and experience the same results. Up & down, up & down, ESP switch clicks on, and etc.
Being a head mechanic for Kleemann you know there’s a certain gear and rpm to by-pass activation of the ESP switch. This is critical to get an accurate chart.
In this case the Mustang ranch results were invalid. Because how is it possibly for our s/c CLK55 to produce up to 113 hp and Timsters pushed 40hp? Second, I have a digital photo that I’ll post showing 4psi while testing his car.
I’ve been involved with at least 14 vehicles s/c and dyno at Magnuson Products in Ventura. Each time we would start off in 1st gear and experience the same results. Up & down, up & down, ESP switch clicks on, and etc.
Being a head mechanic for Kleemann you know there’s a certain gear and rpm to by-pass activation of the ESP switch. This is critical to get an accurate chart.
In this case the Mustang ranch results were invalid. Because how is it possibly for our s/c CLK55 to produce up to 113 hp and Timsters pushed 40hp? Second, I have a digital photo that I’ll post showing 4psi while testing his car.
Reading Adams explanation to Cory, where he explains how there is a certain gear and rpm to by-pass activation of the ESP switch.
This isn't working like this, it's working a little different from model to model.
W 203 you have to set the speedo for Dyno mode.
CL 215, W 220, W 210, W 208 - you have to do something with
the ABS system, the ESP will become active over 40 km/h even the ESP switch is pressed off, this means the car will brake on the rear wheels to try and slow them down, the discs will be lightining red, discs and pads will be gone in a few minutes.
W 211 and R 230, you have to disconect the ESP via MB Stardiagnose, you can dyno them with ESP switch off, but the result will not be right.
The dynos made by Adam can't be used for anything, unless you know how to disconect the ESP.
Was I clear or did I mis the point here ???
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From: Los Angeles
I'm happy with the way KLEEMANN treats their customer, but I'm neutral towards my experience with KLEEMANN products. Each company will run into roadblocks when they first introduce their products, that's just the norms of the learning curve. Granted KLEEMANN supercharger are pretty good, but in my opinion, they are far from perfect.
I'm just glad that I didn't have to replace my blower two times like what happened to a friend of mine with a red C-coupe.
I'm just glad that I didn't have to replace my blower two times like what happened to a friend of mine with a red C-coupe.
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From: So.Cal
98 E430
Originally posted by Hank
I'm happy with the way KLEEMANN treats their customer, but I'm neutral towards my experience with KLEEMANN products.
{Edited}
I'm just glad that I didn't have to replace my blower two times like what happened to a friend of mine with a red C-coupe.
I'm happy with the way KLEEMANN treats their customer, but I'm neutral towards my experience with KLEEMANN products.
{Edited}
I'm just glad that I didn't have to replace my blower two times like what happened to a friend of mine with a red C-coupe.
As for your friend....*OUCH*... I don't think that's acceptable. What was wrong with his Kleemann S/C?
Thread Starter
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From: Bay Area, CA
Originally posted by Turbo][
Well, at least this lift the myth that Kleemann is the greatest S/C kit in the world. Okay so my question is, why does everyone still think Kleemann is the "grade A" product?
We have Hank a Kleemann user that is somewhat dissatisfy with his purchase. Than we have Timster which is dissatisfy with his HPS purchased. Sounds like the score is 1 vs 1. I AM SURE there are MORE Kleemann owners that are dissatisfy by the product, but probably have been "quieted"...........UMMMMMMMMM
My point is, I don't think neither the product is grade A. So why do the people argue about them being so???
Well, at least this lift the myth that Kleemann is the greatest S/C kit in the world. Okay so my question is, why does everyone still think Kleemann is the "grade A" product?
We have Hank a Kleemann user that is somewhat dissatisfy with his purchase. Than we have Timster which is dissatisfy with his HPS purchased. Sounds like the score is 1 vs 1. I AM SURE there are MORE Kleemann owners that are dissatisfy by the product, but probably have been "quieted"...........UMMMMMMMMM
My point is, I don't think neither the product is grade A. So why do the people argue about them being so???
Your conspiracy theory about dissatisfied customers being "quieted" is a little ridiculous. How exactly would a company force their customers to refrain from voicing negative opinions?
People think Kleemann is a grade A product because it is. The Kleemann SC sytem had my 4.3 liter V8 pumping out almost 500 hp and 470 lb/ft of torque... show me another MB 4.3 liter V8 that puts out that kind of power. Kleemann spent millions on R&D, has been in the business for several years, and has manufactured a product that really caters to the MB performance enthusiast. Have you actually spent any time in a Kleemann SC car? I think getting a ride in one will open your eyes.
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From: Scottsdale (aka The Surface of the Sun)
Humm, as there is no such thing as a Kleemann compressor for the C-Coupe, I am really confused. So, it is an Eaton (same exact blower as HPS according to Adam ), and the stock part that failed. Right?
Thanks
Brad
), and the stock part that failed. Right?Thanks
Brad
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From: So.Cal
98 E430
Originally posted by Sleestack
Kleemann spent millions on R&D, has been in the business for several years, and has manufactured a product that really caters to the MB performance enthusiast. Have you actually spent any time in a Kleemann SC car? I think getting a ride in one will open your eyes.
Kleemann spent millions on R&D, has been in the business for several years, and has manufactured a product that really caters to the MB performance enthusiast. Have you actually spent any time in a Kleemann SC car? I think getting a ride in one will open your eyes.
Umm...think about it...are you really being true as a neutral party???
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From: Los Angeles
Originally posted by otoupalik
Humm, as there is no such thing as a Kleemann compressor for the C-Coupe, I am really confused. So, it is an Eaton (same exact blower as HPS according to Adam ), and the stock part that failed. Right?
Thanks
Brad
Humm, as there is no such thing as a Kleemann compressor for the C-Coupe, I am really confused. So, it is an Eaton (same exact blower as HPS according to Adam
), and the stock part that failed. Right?Thanks
Brad
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Nobody says HPS won't be a good product one day, we even wished him the best of luck in the future lots of times, It's Adam/HPS who claims they are one of the worlds " TOP TUNERS"
and that might be a little ( only a little ) too much to claim.
and that might be a little ( only a little ) too much to claim.
Thread Starter
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From: Bay Area, CA
Originally posted by Turbo][
That's a very good point. Since Kleemann have been in the business for awhile, why don't you think the same way for HPS? HPS is a start up division, maybe in the years to come, they will improve or even have the best product in the market. Instead of criticizing them, why don't you offer your "expert" opinion on how to make their SC better?
Umm...think about it...are you really being true as a neutral party???
That's a very good point. Since Kleemann have been in the business for awhile, why don't you think the same way for HPS? HPS is a start up division, maybe in the years to come, they will improve or even have the best product in the market. Instead of criticizing them, why don't you offer your "expert" opinion on how to make their SC better?
Umm...think about it...are you really being true as a neutral party???
HPS might very well improve their product in a few years but how is that relevant? My biggest beef has been with their lack of professionalism and bonehead marketing tactics. Furthermore, Adam threatened legal action against me for voicing my opinion. Not only was that idiotic, I took it as a personal insult. That is happening now, not 2 years from now. Their dynos speak for themselves.... they are just not that impressive.
I purchased a Kleemann SC sytem after a full year of consideration. If owning a Kleemann SC makes me not neutral I guess I can't avoid that. How else am I not neutral.. Do you see me criticizing other tuning companies or other sponsors on this forum? I criticize HPs because they give me reason to, not because I'm looking to get into a pissing match.
In the end, if you want to remain a skeptic, that's fine. The person losing out the most is you.
Last edited by Sleestack; Apr 29, 2003 at 05:59 PM.
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From: Los Angeles
Originally posted by otoupalik
Hank,
No, I have no idea actually. I just know that there is no such thing as a Kleemann compressor for the coupe!
Thanks
brad
Hank,
No, I have no idea actually. I just know that there is no such thing as a Kleemann compressor for the coupe!
Thanks
brad
Out Of Control!!
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From: Southern CA
If I remember correctly, according to HPS they have over 300 years of experience in the automotive industry, so more time should not be necessary. Regardless, if you feel comfortable with their system at this point, by all means buy it!
Hank,
Your perception of reality never ceases to amuse me. While Brad does not know who you are referring to, I do, he is a regular member of this board. Why has he not mentioned any problems with Kleemann? Perhaps it because all he has on his car is a pulley upgrade to the FACTORY supercharger? Last I checked, Mercedes does not release any car from the factory with components running at their maximum potential. Adding a pulley to raise the boost does put more stress on the component, but it should be able to handle it. No other Kleemann, Renntech, MKB, Carlsson, or even ASP has had the supercharger fail from increasing the boost. You work at Boeing, you should have enough knowledge to figure out where the fault lies. This is just the logic, or lack there of, as a MB dealer saying that your engine is out of warranty because you have changed your springs...
Hank,
Your perception of reality never ceases to amuse me. While Brad does not know who you are referring to, I do, he is a regular member of this board. Why has he not mentioned any problems with Kleemann? Perhaps it because all he has on his car is a pulley upgrade to the FACTORY supercharger? Last I checked, Mercedes does not release any car from the factory with components running at their maximum potential. Adding a pulley to raise the boost does put more stress on the component, but it should be able to handle it. No other Kleemann, Renntech, MKB, Carlsson, or even ASP has had the supercharger fail from increasing the boost. You work at Boeing, you should have enough knowledge to figure out where the fault lies. This is just the logic, or lack there of, as a MB dealer saying that your engine is out of warranty because you have changed your springs...
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From: So.Cal
98 E430
Heh, I'm not losing out. I have said it before, I don't think either company make a great or perfect system. If there was a perfect system, than none of this would be happening.
Let HPS have their time to build up, if Adam is doing a bad job marketting and PR their products, maybe instead of attacking him, you should talk to the executive at HPS to let them know that Adam isn't doing a good job.
Attacking him, or the product isn't going to solve anything...as it has demostrated.
Let HPS have their time to build up, if Adam is doing a bad job marketting and PR their products, maybe instead of attacking him, you should talk to the executive at HPS to let them know that Adam isn't doing a good job.
Attacking him, or the product isn't going to solve anything...as it has demostrated.
Thread Starter
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Originally posted by Turbo][
Heh, I'm not losing out. I have said it before, I don't think either company make a great or perfect system. If there was a perfect system, than none of this would be happening.
Let HPS have their time to build up, if Adam is doing a bad job marketting and PR their products, maybe instead of attacking him, you should talk to the executive at HPS to let them know that Adam isn't doing a good job.
Attacking him, or the product isn't going to solve anything...as it has demostrated.
Heh, I'm not losing out. I have said it before, I don't think either company make a great or perfect system. If there was a perfect system, than none of this would be happening.
Let HPS have their time to build up, if Adam is doing a bad job marketting and PR their products, maybe instead of attacking him, you should talk to the executive at HPS to let them know that Adam isn't doing a good job.
Attacking him, or the product isn't going to solve anything...as it has demostrated.
You think you are not losing out. Ignorance is bliss. Try looking for another SC system that puts out the numbers that Kleemann's SC system puts out. This is reality, nothing is perfect.
Last edited by Sleestack; Apr 29, 2003 at 06:48 PM.
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From: Los Angeles
Originally posted by Mach430
Hank,
Your perception of reality never ceases to amuse me.
Hank,
Your perception of reality never ceases to amuse me.
Originally posted by Mach430
Perhaps it because all he has on his car is a pulley upgrade to the FACTORY supercharger?
Perhaps it because all he has on his car is a pulley upgrade to the FACTORY supercharger?
Explain to us why such a refined product required the owner of the coupe to modify the pulley to clear the water pump?
And if the pulley was road-tested for thousands and thousands of miles, why did his first factory supercharger puke after 8k miles? And the 2nd blower after 3k miles? I guess it's never KLEEMANN's fault, it's always the owner's.
Mark, am I right? or am I smoking from the same pipe as Ben?
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From: So.Cal
98 E430
Originally posted by Sleestack
Dude, that doesn't even make any sense. The whole point of a forum is to discuss issues and offer your opinion. What you see as an attack, I see as a response. Why is it my responsibility to contact HPS and tell them that their company is being run like crap? If there is any place that is appropriate for me to be giving those opinions it is here on an MB forum.
You think you are not losing out. Ignorance is bliss. Try looking for another SC system that puts out the numbers that Kleemann's SC system puts out. This is reality, nothing is perfect.
Dude, that doesn't even make any sense. The whole point of a forum is to discuss issues and offer your opinion. What you see as an attack, I see as a response. Why is it my responsibility to contact HPS and tell them that their company is being run like crap? If there is any place that is appropriate for me to be giving those opinions it is here on an MB forum.
You think you are not losing out. Ignorance is bliss. Try looking for another SC system that puts out the numbers that Kleemann's SC system puts out. This is reality, nothing is perfect.
I am not saying its your responsibility, however bashing on him is not going to get rid of your concern for the other members on this forum. Since you find that it's not your responsibility, why do you keep attacking Adam? The opinion of which you have address are his character, not the supercharger. I am not saying he is right either, both party is behaving like kindergarteners. I just find it amusing that only Kleemann and Kleemann owners are attacking him.
If there was a place on the MB forum to attack each other personality, its something not even worth reading. We are here to discuss MB matters not personal opinion of another's character.
As I have suggested. If you feel their SC is less than desireable, than tell the forum members what it would make HPS product better.
