EKaru

My point about the 3rd passenger in the bench was simply that it's possible... My parents had a chrysler pacifica (which was traded for an SRX).. Anyways when we'd go to the airport, the back was full of luggage which left seats for only 4, when there were 5 passengers. The unfortunate 5th passenger had to sit on the 2nd row hard as a rock center console (w/out a seatbelt). The SRX and Q7 wouldn't have that problem...
Eric...

Nevada Jack

I understand but the R is 10" longer than the Pacifica and the SRX. Why did they not use one of the 3rd row seats and stack the luggage that way. That is a lot of luggage space for 3 people considering your parents did not have any.

Anyway...each person has his own needs and wants and what suits one will not suit the other. I think we have covered this area pretty well...:-)

JackStraw

In most, if not all, 7-seat SUVs, the floor where the passengers in the third row rest their feet is higher than the level of the floor where the first and second row passengers sit because it is over the rear axle. For me, this is unacceptable. As far as I can tell, the R's doesn't have this problem while the Q7 does.

Both vehicles are compromises. The R sacrifices storage space for third row comfort while the Q sacrifces third row comfort for storage space behind the third row. The only vehicle that I have seen that doesn't sacrifice one for the other is the Cadillac Escalade ESV, but I can't bring myself to buy that behemoth.

Nevada Jack

You are right Jack...the floor in the 3row of the R is the same as elsewhere. The lower level is how the seat is designed.

EKaru

Actually this was luggage for 5 people.. My parents, sister, myself, and wife, so we needed the back for the luggage. We no longer have this problem with the SRX being that a passenger can safely sit in the middle and wear a seatbelt. With the pacifica and R-class if you're taking a lot of luggage, it's strictly a 4 seater. I wonder why Mercedes didn't offer a middle row bench for the rear as an option, which would be very useful if a 5th passenger was to come aboard. I saw the R350 at Euromotorcars in Bethesda. With 6 adults, there's no room for luggage, let alone a picnic chest... By the way, according to Mercedes, even though the 4-place seating option for the S-class is a $4K option, it actually hurts it in the 2nd hand market. Some people appreciate the 4-place seating, but the majority would rather have an extra seat.
Eric...

G55K

I agree. If the R could seat three in the middle row it would have worked for my family and me. I bet we see this option available in the near future.

Nevada Jack

I bought a 1977 280E Sedan at Euromotocars...long time ago..:-) BTW, for luggage which exceeds the interior storage space there is a Roof Rack available to meet that need in the few instances it may be required.

Based on the marketing direction the R Class is taking I doubt you will see a "benchseat" or middle seat in the R for some time, if ever. This car was designed for 6 adults or a family of 1-2 children of just pre-teen or teenage (their words not mine.) It is not a family car but a special nitche vehicle. Their demographics are couples with grown families and "empty nesters" in the 50-60 age range. They have done there market research and designed the car to meet those objectives. I think they see the car as the perfect two couple vacationers' ideal way to travel.

G55K

Gentlemen's bet. In 18 months they'll have a bench seat.

Nevada Jack

You have a bet.

It will totally depend on the acceptance of the concept and the sales figures here and in Europe. With the diesel being reality next Fall, the ML and R sales should spike and a major change to a bench seat option in the R is remote. The E Class wagon fills that need now and in the future.

G55K

I'm glad to hear that they're getting serious about bringing more diesel models into the states. Some of the new diesel technology is incredible.

Nevada Jack

If I had the patience I would wait for the 320CDI in the R.

I have had many MB diesels and loved every one of them...loud and smokey but I loved them. The new V6 and V8 series should be a hit when people realize it doens't make noise or smoke...:-)

EKaru

This will probably find its way into the 08' R-class....
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Sep05/1...bridSClass.htm

Nevada Jack

I agree. MB is also joint developing hybrids with GM. The new boss at MB is a diesel advocate and you are going to see a lot of progress in this area.

S Class is taking some heat from MB fans but I like it and the interior although akin to the 7 Series is nice an clean and looks fine to me. A S320/S350 Hybrid would be a nice package...

EKaru

DaimlerGM.... greeeeat :p

MKW

That pic is done with a fisheye lense . It seemed quite shallow when I saw the car in person. If you plan on 5 people for a trip, you'll have to put one seat down, which means loose " flying " luggage in an accident, unless you put up the verticle net AND make the mother in law sit behind it with the VERY HEAVY ALL-METAL LUGGAGE.

Nevada Jack

Having some knowledge of lenses...there is not enough distortion in that image to indicate a "fisheye" lens was used. I indicated earlier that a wide angle was used on the shot of the Audi storage area and the 2nd row seating, and I would suggest the same FL lens was used for the R shot. The distance is 19.4" in the R Class with the 3rd row up. The Audi is the one with the "metal luggage" as I remember.

If you plan a trip with 5 people and have a lot of luggage then use a roof rack. If you don't feel the car will suit your needs then buy something else where you can store 5 people and luggage in the same area. The car has too many good features in my opinion to let luggage become a controlling factor in it's selection. Seating of children and access to baby seats is another story.

Nevada Jack

This quote is from the full test drive by Edmunds. Since you seem to think the space behind the 3rd row is so small...note the comparison in the quote. On this basis 5 people in an S Class will need a trailer for their luggage.

"Behind that third-row bench, which is split 50/50, is 15.2 cubic feet of cargo room, about the same amount of room in the trunk of an S-Class."

JackStraw

The cargo space behind the 3rd row of the Honda Odyssey is 38.4 cubic feet and swallows a lot of luggage. The overall length of the Odyssey is 201 inches, while the overall length of the R is 203 inches. The difference between the R and the Odyssey is the distance between the nose and the firewall. Honda has done a much better job than of keeping the volume of the engine compartment to a minimum to maximize interior space.

Nevada Jack

The lines on the R Class to some degree limit the interior space not the volume of the engine compartment. I would guess that the V6 setup in the Odessey and the V6/V8 setup in the R is pretty similar in space utilization with the 7 speed transmisson and 4 wheel drive in the R taking some additional space.

Personally I do not find the Odessey to be my kind of car. The R Class utililizes 64% of the body length for the occupants, storage being a secondary consideration. If they wanted to increase the cargo area they could have done so by reducing seating legroom or made the car taller and square like the Odessey as opposed to using more attractive lines and style.

I just feel that some people want the MB R Class to be a typical minivan or something it isn't meant to be. They like the style and features but can't seem to understand it is not a minivan. It is a nitche vehicle desiged for a specific group of people yet to be fully identified. If you don't fit in that nitche then you will not be happy with the car.

JackStraw

With the R, MB is targeting a niche that doesn't exist. The company should have built a luxury AWD minivan and aimed to satisfy minivan buyers.

I overheard a MB salesman the other day saying to a customer "It's not a minivan, it is not an SUV. It is a car-- think of it as an S-Class with room for 6 passengers". They don't have a clue as to what they have created.

Nevada Jack

Well perhaps you are correct Jack. But...Jaguar, BMW and Porsche all seem to know what they created since they are all on track to release the competitive models during the 2006/7 model years.

Chrysler is the minivan king of DCX and you will never see the Vaino (?) in the US or any other true van under the three pointed star here.

Jack...I remember when I bought my first SL. It was a '79 Maple Yellow. My neighbor came over and said what a great looking car, but why didn't they make the back seat larger so it would carry 4 people like a coupe. The SC did just that but the SL (like your SL600) remained a 2 seater and fills the "niche" very nicely.

EKaru

R-class substitute

Nevada Jack

Good choice...best looking wagon made!

Otto

more Q7 info from autospies part 1 part 2 part 3

It looks great. (I think Q7 provides better value than R -- price of loaded Q7 = price of unloaded R)

R does not have

1. heated steering wheel which my wife insists having it. (I really don't know why R does not provide this feature.)
2. reversing camera. (good to have because of big car)

but R has

3-zone climate control (but I don't need the 3rd row seats so 3-zone climate is not important; the facts are both R and Q can only fit kids in the 3rd rows while R is longer and Q is higher. R length 5157 mm and height 1656 mm vs Q length 5086 mm and height 1737 mm)

Q7 has 4-zone climate control and better pano roof design (extends in three segments, reaching virtually from the front roof edge to the third seat row.) where R has the pano roof same as the one in E (I currently have it).

Eric, I probably will get one after I see Q7 in person. Please let me know how good your deal can be from your Audi dealer.

As Jack said, R and Q are for different markets and people but they have a lot of similar points.

Nevada Jack

Otto...how did you come to this conclusion?

"the facts are both R and Q can only fit kids in the 3rd rows"

Have you sat in the 3rd row of a R Class...I have and there is plenty of room for two adults and I am 6" tall. The leg room is what you would find in the normal back seat of most SUV's or sedans. The Q on the other hand is designed for children per the Audi information.