testknight

So I'm hearing dealer wants $1200+ to replace pads and rotors on all 4 corners. I am seeing around a grand for independent shops. I figured I'd give a quick write up for someone wanting to save some money and do it themselves.

First I'll share I went with a much cheaper pad/rotor option to OEM. Dealer wants over $525 for pads/rotors (you can get them a little cheaper online). Not too terrible, but as I have three major financial events going on right now I wanted to save some money without going too ghetto.

So I found a 'Centric' brand rotor/pad. I found these being sold at discount tire and some other 'somewhat' reputable places. Online reviews for Centric products were all decent as well. So what I did was to find a place that sold me their basic rotors (they offer higher options) and their mid level low noise ceramic pads. I bought pads and rotors for all four corners for just about $275 shipped. I'll post here in future if any issues (if none assume they are fine) in case anyone coming across this thread in future are interested. I didn't want to go with a complete no name on ebay but also didn't want to spend as much for OEM.

SO onto brake replacement. This was very easy from a technical standpoint...nothing special about it. quick listing for front pads/rotor replacement:

- loosen lugs, raise/brace car, remove tires

- turn steering wheel in opposite direction of side you'll be working to allow for better access to calipers. Turn all the way opposite direction when you move to complete other side

- Spray liquid wrench all over rotor position screw (star headed small screw on rotor), front of rotor(where it connects to hub in middle) and the big rotor screw heads (back of caliper) and tap near each area with hammer a few times...leave it to soak at least 15 minutes (I tend to reapply at least one more time about 30 minutes later and letting it sit longer)

- remove spring bracket right on front. I sprayed some wd-40 on it and then just used a screw driver to pry/pop it out, pretty simple.

- use a large c-clamp to compress the caliper pistons a bit...put one side of clamp on back of caliper (be sure its not resting on anything other than metal back of caliper) and other part on the pad itself (still inside caliper) and turn it gently. You'll notice once you pull clamp off the pad is now loose within the caliper

- remove star headed rotor position screw. Make sure you have the exact correct size torx bit..don't use incorrect bit or try anything other than a torx bit (I've seen people try all kind of things and strip/round them)

-remove caliper bolts....I used 21mm socket. Only use a six point socket....DO NOT USE A 12 (you'll likely strip it). This was very tough to get off....I had to use a breaker bar along with a jack handle wrapped around it to get these screws off (a large pipe around your breaker bar would work too..again this is tough to get off).

- be very careful getting caliper off, do not put any strain on the brake lines, Make sure you have a 5gal bucket, cinder block or some mechanic wire all ready to set or hang the calipers for no tension to brake lines

- use mallet or hammer (regular size) and give it firm continuous whacks on front and back of rotor as you turn it 360 degrees.

- next use a sledge hammer and start whacking it with small incremental increases of force until rotor pops off hub. You can turn rotor a bit each time you do as well

-remove rotor and clean hub real good with brake cleaner and scotch pad (steel wool)

- remove pads

-you could grease the caliper pins at this point...see web for more info on that, not required (two pieces of caliper can be separated by hand for greasing and slid back together)..it'll add just a few minutes to job and is good to do while there

- now just do everything in reverse...blue loctite on caliper bolts and rotor position screw is highly recommended. For caliper bolts its something like 125-135 ft lbs...I don't trust my torque wrench (cheap unit used in a lot of jobs and should be thrown out) so over the last 5-6 jobs I've done I just used a breaker bar and tightened it about as hard as I could...no problems.

can't think of much else..I guess rears is close to same save for the caliper bolts being different...I'll know tomorrow, if anything worth noting I'll post it here.

hope this helps, I'll post on brand used if anything worth noting someday.

vwfreak

Good write up. I'm gonna be doing my brakes soon. Are there sensors on all four corners or just front?

testknight

Good question, I forgot to mention the sensors. I didn't get to rears today, but can say on my '08 there was only a sensor on the passenger side.

For those doing this for first time, it is very obvious once you get there once needs done to replace...just unplug old one and remove it along with old pad, slide sensor onto new pad (there is slot for it) and plug it back in once pad is on.

For some reason I almost didn't get a sensor, this is first car I've owned with pad sensor so I had the thought I might reuse the existing...well if you've never seen one of these before the sensor basicaly plugs into pad and as the pad wears down the rotor will start rubbing the sensor itself, thus I guess grounding it and triggering your brake wear warning on the dash display. So once the sensor has been triggered it needs replaced, don't think to reuse and these cost about $7 anyway.

The entire job was very similiar to any other brake job (very similiar to one I did on a Dodge Durango). Toughest part for me was getting the caliper bolts off...and I'd have to say that if I do it again I'll just repalce these bolts next time). I also had a bit of time getting one of the pads into the calipers (the ones that slide into the pistons). I had to pinch the spring bracket on back of pad with needle nose to get it to slide in (I also used a bit of wd40 just for added lubrication).

starbound01

I recommend not pushing the old fluid back into the system when compressing the caliper. Mercedes has a schedule for brake fluid replacement. From what I have read the schedule is based on water absorption in the brake fluid. Get the brake fluid from Mercedes as it is specific and, well, its your brakes. The bottle is 1 Qt and its about $40.

All you have to do is back off the bleader, add a tube so it drains to some container. When you compress the caliper the fluid will exit the bleeder. Remeber to close the bleeder when it compressed.

Bleed the brakes to clear fluid while watching the resevoir so you don;t run out of fluid. Its easy and your in the thick of it anyway.

I cleared the resevoir for fresh fluid too but i forget how I did that so I won't write anything on that.

PeteInLongBeach

Ideally, this should be done at a shop with a STAR machine, as there is a certain manipulation of the ABS system that should be done in order to flush all the fluid.

supernsx

Took the thread owner advice and have my Indy to replaced my brakes with Centric rotors and pads. It is great and feel no different than my last setup (EBC brake pads with OEM rotors). No squeaking and stop really well. Save me a bundle with the parts about $300.

testknight

Glad to hear it went well. I did finally do thr rears, pretty easy save I did have a little trouble getting caliper bolts off (more in getting a good leverage angle...obviously you only want to use a 6pt socket for it and always be sure you are on square when pulling these bolts off as to not strip them).

On the rears...make sure you know what rotors your car has. I found mine were vented and a lot of the Rs have solid rotors. I didnt' realize this and have to return the ones I originally received.

Beyond that I would let anyone know you can ignore the advice/comment about bleeding the brakes from a previous poster (as a general maintenance rule on Occassion (rarely), sure its ok to consider changing out brake fluid, but not needed to install new pads/rotors). I've done a lot of brakes and never had to bleed them nor has anyone I've ever know who has done their own brakes. Just ask anyone else who works on cars. Just remove the reservoir cap, put some towels around in the event it does spill over (that's never happened to me, close but never really did) and push those calipers back...no issues I promise. Just be sure to pump the brake until you feel resistance before driving the car.

starbound01

Bleeding brakes is pretty standard for any car and purging fluid when compressing is just good practice. Some cars post master cylinder damage if you backflow the fluid. So why should you do it... 1) If you have a slight leak, you'll see the bubble when you bleed it. 2) The rubber components decompose over time which is why the brake fluid is much darker in the caliper resevoir. If you compress the caliper the fluid goes back into the system and back in the resevoir and ABS pump. 3) Complete brake fluid replacement is standard maintenance for the R (not sure if its 30K or 60K miles - look in the owners manual). It's required because brake fluid absorbs water and the water causes corrosion in the system and then the ABS fails. I've personally have never seen it, but check out the price of a new ABS IF it does corrode and fail.

A $40 bottle of MB brake fluid (and yes, that is the only kind you can use because its a special blend) and 10 minutes extra in a brake job is VERY cheap insurance against ALL of the above. The R is a seriously heavy vehicle and brake issues are really never good.

My Lexus requires it as well and I do the same with it because its required. The Volvo and the Acura, I open the bleeder so the fluid doesn't go back and to check for a leak and top off.

ODIOUS

You guys are changing rotors our right?
Doesn't anyone turn them anymore???

efzauner

You can turn rotors yes... and that was great when labour was cheap. But considering for DIY, the time it takes to remove them, take them to the shop,,, get them turned, often not while you wait etc. If you do all 4 you have to put both end up on stands. If you do one end at a time you have to make 2 trips.... Aftermarket rotors are well priced and you can do the whole job quickly..

One way would be to put on new rotor the fist time and then have the old ones turned and keep them for the next change...

ODIOUS

starbound01

There is data online that suggests that the rear solid rotors are designed to be light and is prone to warping if turned. Don;t know if that is the case with the fronts.

BTW, its a good idea to paint the rotor non-contact surace so it doesn't rust. I use blue painters tape to cover the surfaces then trim it with a sharp utility knife. Then I use high temp engine paint and give it 2-3 light coats of paint and let it dry until its not sticky. I suppose powder coating would be better b ut I don;t have easy access to that. The paint will smell bad for a few days while the heat burns off the volitile stuff. BUT, your rotors will look great and not look rusty after time.

testknight

fyi, the ceramic pads I bought, though have no brake dust squeak a lot. I've heard others with this issue so will likely go with some metallic or semi metallic pads. I know there is grease you can apply, but just don't see this as a long term solution.

ODIOUS

Which pads did you go with?
When installing the rotors did you use brake cleaner?
Some rotors come with a light coat of oil which you are not supposed to remove. Not sure what that is all about but maybe its a contributing factor.

starbound01

I used ceramic pads and they never squeak - ever... and no dust - it's been almost 2 yrs. Squeaking is almost always poor clenaing or failing to use the brake grease the pads come with. Also, if your brake warning light came on, you will need new sensors with the pads.

You have to take that oil off the rotor. If you don't you will ruin the pads and if you hit another car when you fail to stop you damage the body of the car. You don;t want to use brakefluid on any of the brake rubber parts. A good stiff brush is best for cleaning.

Also, you should take the time to replace the brake fluid. It's called for in the service at around 60K. Get the fluid from the dealer. They sell as a quart bottle @ $40. Open the bleeder when you compress the caliper. That will get rid of the old fuild in the caliper. Flush each caliper as part of bleeding it.

If you don't want to see rust on the rotor, paint the NON-braking surfaces (don't paint the surface the wheel sits againt. Use hight temp engine paint. It lasts a long time and its nice not haivng rusty replacement rotors.

ODIOUS

This is not true for some brake rotors.
My recently installed Zimmerman rotors had clear instructions NOT to clean the rotors. I think I will send an inquiry and see what the rationale behind this is.

efzauner

This is the first I heard on R and W203 class forums that a Star system needs to be used. My Haynes w203 manual does say that air can get trapped in the ABS valve system and does need the "scan" tool to flush out completely. ALLDATAdiy also says nothing about Star system hookcup for bleeding the Rclass.

But when bleeding brakes or flushing fluid, one should never have the reservoir so empty as to get air into the system.

starbound01

All rotors are shipped with some type of oil based product to protect the surface from rust/pitting. You may have a brand that adds something else as well. If the product tells you to not do something or to do something, then you should follow their specification.

The Star system is needed to flush the ABS unit. The only way I know to do that is through an internal leak or if you run the resevoir dry. Most ABS pumps need a tool to clear hte ABs. Essentially, the tool forces the pump to run in a pulse mode to allow the air to push through. If you maintain the resevoir when flushing this should nbot be an issue. I purchased a manual vacuum pump a long time ago to purge oil from the resevoir. It never gets it all out but it does get a good amount of it out.

Personally, I always open the bleeder when compressing to dump the old fluid. It's always discolored to a degree and $40 of brake fluid is cheap insurance to a failed ABS unit.

testknight

I clean my rotors of that oil as well before installation (done dozens of rotors/pads) and my understanding has always been that is best practice.


I should also clarify that you'll see my write up was done in the July/Aug timeframe. The pads did not start squeaking until a month ago once the weather got cold around here. It also only squeaks at first, such as while I back out of driveway and by the time I drive and hit the first (or second) stop sign its gone. The issue is that it squeaks real loud for that very short initial period and that is not acceptable for the wife. Once life slows a bit, I'll pull pads and put brake quiet on backs.


As far as bleeding brakes, I want people to understand it is NOT needed for pad/rotor replacement. If you want to do it, fine, not a big deal. I've done a lot since mid 80s and never once needed to bleed brakes. I just don't want folks not used to wrenching on cars to think they need to do it is all.


On fluid replacement, starbound's suggestion is sound. Its not needed to replace pads/rotors but is good maintenance advice.

Cucucachu

This tutorial is excellent! I did my front brakes last night.

I would like to add to it:
After removing the spring and before compressing the pistons, you need to remove the caliper from the bracket. To remove the caliper you will need a 9mm Allen Key or hex wrench. This gave me fits because I only had an 8mm or 10mm and couldn't find a stand alone 9mm at any store. I finally bought a set of 10 Allen Keys that included the "sacred" 9mm Allen Key.

- remove spring bracket right on front. I sprayed some wd-40 on it and then just used a screw driver to pry/pop it out, pretty simple.

- use a large c-clamp to compress the caliper pistons a bit...put one side of clamp on back of caliper (be sure its not resting on anything other than metal back of caliper) and other part on the pad itself (still inside caliper) and turn it gently. You'll notice once you pull clamp off the pad is now loose within the caliper.

After the caliper was removed, pistons compressed, and hung from the upper control arm with care (using a clothes hanger wire), I went on to remove the bracket with the 21mm bolts. Using a 21mm impact socket and very long breaker bar made this job easy. After removal of the star bolt, the disc rotors came off with 3 taps from heavy rubber mallet.

Again, thank you for the tutorial it is excellent. To future readers, remember to buy a 21mm six point socket, very long breaker bar and 9mm Allen Key to make this job easy.

vwfreak

What are you using the 9mm Allen key for? I recently replaced the pads on all 4 corners and I didn't need a allen key.

efzauner

What you are saying then is as long as you don't get air into the system by emptying the reservoir you don't need the Star system or special tool for flushing the system? Just open one end at a time and pump the pedal while making sure it never gets empty enough to allow air in. I gather then that next time you use the abs the fresh fluid will work its way thru the small passages?

I think we need to differentiate between bleeding and flushing. To me bleeding is getting air bubbles out. This is critical if you actually replace break calipers or pistons/seals. Used to do this on older cars! If all you replace is pads then a flush as I mentioned above is all you need to do with new brake fluid.

starbound01

The purpose of the flush is to replace the brake fluid to eliminate the water that is absobed by the brake fluid. In modern vehicles the absorbed water will sometimes cause the antilock system to fail.

The STAR system is needed to run the abs pump and valves as though the vehicle is doing it; just in a controlled manner. If you get air in the system through the resevoir then this is almost a requirement to get all the air out since you can't ryun the pump/valves manually. With that said, I suppose you could do some forced antilock engaging stops to do the same thing, but tha could be potentially dangerous. I don't know if it would work, but I would suspect it would.

With all that said, if you don't get air in the system, the amount of remaining old fluid in the ABS would be pretty small. The fluid is all one system. I'm not sure of the mechanics of it all but the ABS unit is not required for the brakes to work. If the ABS system does not work, you just lose the ability to prevent wheel lockup when braking.

mercedesking

Where did you buy the 9 mm allen key set from i been to all stores and can't find it?

marc hanna

Try Amazon: