Newb Question: What would I be getting myself into?
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Newbie
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 14
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Newb Question: What would I be getting myself into?
Hi Everyone,
My wife has been bugging me to get her a minivan. But I'm not sold on the idea. I'm more of a wagon guy. So I see the R350 as good compromise, plus i like the AWD.
That being said, I know nothing about these cars. I have spent the last 2 years wrenching on a BMW e39 wagon (Brakes, headliner, struts, cooling system) and e34 Wagon (replacing transmission). But I've never owned an MB. So here are some basic questions:
My wife has been bugging me to get her a minivan. But I'm not sold on the idea. I'm more of a wagon guy. So I see the R350 as good compromise, plus i like the AWD.
That being said, I know nothing about these cars. I have spent the last 2 years wrenching on a BMW e39 wagon (Brakes, headliner, struts, cooling system) and e34 Wagon (replacing transmission). But I've never owned an MB. So here are some basic questions:
- What are some of the problem areas on these cars? I've read about a crank sensor that sucks. What are the other regular parts that die?
- How hard are they to DIY on?
- I know that the newer BMWs require some pretty advanced coding (beyond OBD2 and pulling factory codes) as you are replacing parts. Is that the same for MB now, too?
- Does it share the driveline components with the sedans? or the SUVs? Or is it a completely new/different driveline?
- What would you expect to pay for one with about 90k miles? Seems everyone is asking about $10-13k. KBB seems to be a bit lower than that.
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 229
Likes: 14
From: Akron, OH
2006 R350
Hi Everyone,
My wife has been bugging me to get her a minivan. But I'm not sold on the idea. I'm more of a wagon guy. So I see the R350 as good compromise, plus i like the AWD.
That being said, I know nothing about these cars. I have spent the last 2 years wrenching on a BMW e39 wagon (Brakes, headliner, struts, cooling system) and e34 Wagon (replacing transmission). But I've never owned an MB. So here are some basic questions:
My wife has been bugging me to get her a minivan. But I'm not sold on the idea. I'm more of a wagon guy. So I see the R350 as good compromise, plus i like the AWD.
That being said, I know nothing about these cars. I have spent the last 2 years wrenching on a BMW e39 wagon (Brakes, headliner, struts, cooling system) and e34 Wagon (replacing transmission). But I've never owned an MB. So here are some basic questions:
- What are some of the problem areas on these cars? I've read about a crank sensor that sucks. What are the other regular parts that die?
Too many to list here... it is all about condition and maintenance.. Plan on spending a few hours on here reading up on it. - How hard are they to DIY on?
No harder than the BMW's you mess with now - I know that the newer BMWs require some pretty advanced coding (beyond OBD2 and pulling factory codes) as you are replacing parts. Is that the same for MB now, too?
Actually true for almost all modern cars.. my 2010 Honda has networked and coded modules as well. - Does it share the driveline components with the sedans? or the SUVs? Or is it a completely new/different driveline?
The M, G, and R share a platform - What would you expect to pay for one with about 90k miles? Seems everyone is asking about $10-13k. KBB seems to be a bit lower than that.
Once you pass 80k the prices will be all over the place based on condition and maintenance. Again, just like a BMW, there is nothing more expensive than a beat, cheap Benz....
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
2011 R350 Blutec
Don't do it.
Hi Everyone,
My wife has been bugging me to get her a minivan. But I'm not sold on the idea. I'm more of a wagon guy. So I see the R350 as good compromise, plus i like the AWD.
That being said, I know nothing about these cars. I have spent the last 2 years wrenching on a BMW e39 wagon (Brakes, headliner, struts, cooling system) and e34 Wagon (replacing transmission). But I've never owned an MB. So here are some basic questions:
My wife has been bugging me to get her a minivan. But I'm not sold on the idea. I'm more of a wagon guy. So I see the R350 as good compromise, plus i like the AWD.
That being said, I know nothing about these cars. I have spent the last 2 years wrenching on a BMW e39 wagon (Brakes, headliner, struts, cooling system) and e34 Wagon (replacing transmission). But I've never owned an MB. So here are some basic questions:
- What are some of the problem areas on these cars? I've read about a crank sensor that sucks. What are the other regular parts that die?
- How hard are they to DIY on?
- I know that the newer BMWs require some pretty advanced coding (beyond OBD2 and pulling factory codes) as you are replacing parts. Is that the same for MB now, too?
- Does it share the driveline components with the sedans? or the SUVs? Or is it a completely new/different driveline?
- What would you expect to pay for one with about 90k miles? Seems everyone is asking about $10-13k. KBB seems to be a bit lower than that.
Super Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 699
Likes: 25
From: Warrington, PA
08 R350, 12 Mercedes R350
Buy 08+.
My 08 has zero defect.
It has 7 seater. It will carry 7 people and luggages if you have a cargo box for the luggages on the roof. It will handle better than any van on the highway and can hit 130 MPH without any problem. 110 MPH without any vibration in my experience.
My 08 has zero defect.
It has 7 seater. It will carry 7 people and luggages if you have a cargo box for the luggages on the roof. It will handle better than any van on the highway and can hit 130 MPH without any problem. 110 MPH without any vibration in my experience.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 118
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
2023 GLK250, 1987 560SL
I'm happy with my 08. Minor things, primarily associate with neglect from the previous owner, and some questionable fraud - dealer snipped off the brake wear sensor cable and tucked it up before the fender - why???
I sent off serial oil samples for oil analysis and the motor is clean and running at optimum: extremely low contaminants.
I sent off serial oil samples for oil analysis and the motor is clean and running at optimum: extremely low contaminants.
Super Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 699
Likes: 25
From: Warrington, PA
08 R350, 12 Mercedes R350
I'm happy with my 08. Minor things, primarily associate with neglect from the previous owner, and some questionable fraud - dealer snipped off the brake wear sensor cable and tucked it up before the fender - why???
I sent off serial oil samples for oil analysis and the motor is clean and running at optimum: extremely low contaminants.
I sent off serial oil samples for oil analysis and the motor is clean and running at optimum: extremely low contaminants.
I bought my 08 new and it has been servicing at my local MB dealer including yearly State Inspection.
Note: in 7 years, no mechanical or electrical parts (except the main battery) were replaced. I changed my own air/cabin filters myself.
Last edited by AsianR350; Jan 22, 2016 at 06:36 PM.
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Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 14
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Hi everyone. Thanks so much for the honest assessments. I've looked into it some more, and I think I'm going to not get one of these. Not at least until the 2008 models get cheaper. One lesson I've learned with German cars is that I'm not rich enough to just take them to a mechanic every time they act up. So everything that gets fixed on this car will be done by myself. So I think for now I will stick with the devil I know, which is my E39 wagon.
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Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 203
Likes: 21
From: Doylestown, OH
2015 Audi S4, 1982 Fiat Spyder, 2010 R350, 2013 E550 Cabriolet
I was in the same situation as you and came to the same conclusion - the R350 (Bluetec) would be a great compromise. Bought one 8 weeks ago with 60K and it has been an absolute nightmare. $5K in issues so far and the check engine light is on with Reductant Heater short circuit (Adblue tank issues, probably another $2K issue). I regret this purchase and will be selling asap. Good luck.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 118
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
2023 GLK250, 1987 560SL
There is a known issue with the Adblue tank heater associated with letting the tank run dry. This, I would relate to neglect or poor maintenance. There are other known issues with earlier models, mostly pre-2008, but one persisting problem is with the glow-plug control module - this is a simple DIY and involves buying a new module for about $150, unbolting and unplugging the old one and installing the new one. Other issues may be related to the EGR and swirl valve, which can be software disabled.
There are three basic suspension options 1) all coil spring, 2) coil spring on front with air springs on the back, and 3) air springs all around (airmatic). Avoid the airmatic (3); it is high maintenance, problematic, and VERY expensive to repair. The first two options are quite reliable with only isolated complaints of issues with option 2.
There are three basic suspension options 1) all coil spring, 2) coil spring on front with air springs on the back, and 3) air springs all around (airmatic). Avoid the airmatic (3); it is high maintenance, problematic, and VERY expensive to repair. The first two options are quite reliable with only isolated complaints of issues with option 2.
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 229
Likes: 14
From: Akron, OH
2006 R350
'bout to say the same thing.... Heck I have a "nightmare" 06... with the "time bomb" V6.....
Repairs/Replacements.... 72K to 105K (to date) about 3.5 years
Replaced rear shocks with OEM Bilsteins about $150 for the pair
Converted rear air springs to OEM coils.. $500
New Tires (Yokahama) mounted, balanced, 4 wheel alignment... $700
Transmission Service at the dealer... $500
A/C compressor blew at 80mph in North Carolina.... 2 days at the dealer and all new under hood A/C components.. Compressor, Lines, Dryer, Evaporator...and replaced pulleys and belt..... $2500
Rebuilt Power Steering Pump... $160
Replaced 4 wheel brake pads.... $80.00
Plus assorted fluid changes....
Not bad for such a bad vehicle.
Last edited by josworth; Jan 25, 2016 at 04:26 PM.
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 229
Likes: 14
From: Akron, OH
2006 R350
There are three basic suspension options 1) all coil spring, 2) coil spring on front with air springs on the back, and 3) air springs all around (airmatic). Avoid the airmatic (3); it is high maintenance, problematic, and VERY expensive to repair. The first two options are quite reliable with only isolated complaints of issues with option 2.
The coil springs were standard in Europe... and as an R Class part are actually blocked for N/A sale... I just happened to find out with some searching that there was an ML spring part number that crossed for the R....
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
2011 R350 Blutec
First off, I am not blaming anyone or anything. I simply provided the OP with MY experience with MY R350 - which is what I believe he was asking for. You neither provided a response to his inquiry, nor provided any valuable feedback to the OP. Furthermore, prior to purchasing the vehicle, I took it to MB to have a full inspection - even after I had my Indy give it a once over. The only thing they found was a bad pulley bearing, high beam bulb, and low Adblue. Within a few weeks after purchase, I have spent over $5K in repairs. This is exactly the type of information the OP was requesting. Move on.
Super Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 699
Likes: 25
From: Warrington, PA
08 R350, 12 Mercedes R350
First off, I am not blaming anyone or anything. I simply provided the OP with MY experience with MY R350 - which is what I believe he was asking for. You neither provided a response to his inquiry, nor provided any valuable feedback to the OP. Furthermore, prior to purchasing the vehicle, I took it to MB to have a full inspection - even after I had my Indy give it a once over. The only thing they found was a bad pulley bearing, high beam bulb, and low Adblue. Within a few weeks after purchase, I have spent over $5K in repairs. This is exactly the type of information the OP was requesting. Move on.
When you buy a used car, you do not know the car maintenance's history from the previous owner. I bought my 08 new (listed $51,000 and paid $41,000) and it has been serviced by my local MB dealer since 2008 and I have no problem with it so far. Yearly state inspection and service by my local MB and they had not found any defects / replacement bad parts so far. So I am very happy of my R.
Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 203
Likes: 21
From: Doylestown, OH
2015 Audi S4, 1982 Fiat Spyder, 2010 R350, 2013 E550 Cabriolet
First off, I am not blaming anyone or anything. I simply provided the OP with MY experience with MY R350 - which is what I believe he was asking for. You neither provided a response to his inquiry, nor provided any valuable feedback to the OP. Furthermore, prior to purchasing the vehicle, I took it to MB to have a full inspection - even after I had my Indy give it a once over. The only thing they found was a bad pulley bearing, high beam bulb, and low Adblue. Within a few weeks after purchase, I have spent over $5K in repairs. This is exactly the type of information the OP was requesting. Move on.
Yes, repairs and maintenance can be high with these cars, though repairs are better after 2008. I have had 4 European cars and they are all expensive to keep on the road, but probably worth it. If the R Class were as cheap to maintain as a Toyota, you would have to pay Over $30,000 for a used one with 100k miles. Most of us got our car with a great discount. I don't mind paying a little more in repairs and service to keep it.
It sounds like you did try to survey your car before purchase. Just keep in mind that those repairs are not typical. I bought my 2010 as a CPO with 5800 miles. (Yes, that is only 2 0's and not 3). I am now out of warranty and paid off at 94,000 miles. I have recently had around $700 in unplanned repairs. A front wheel bearing and a rear air shock, but I don't consider those excessive. Once I pass 100k miles this year, I will budget $1,000 per 10k miles for repairs, which is still much cheaper than car payments. I hope to keep the car to 200k which for me is another 5 years.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 556
Likes: 4
2011 C300 4matic, 2015 Porsche Macan S, 2006 R500 (sold)
Sorry if I sounded harsh. I did not respond to the OP because he announced he was going in a different direction before I posted.
Yes, repairs and maintenance can be high with these cars, though repairs are better after 2008. I have had 4 European cars and they are all expensive to keep on the road, but probably worth it. If the R Class were as cheap to maintain as a Toyota, you would have to pay Over $30,000 for a used one with 100k miles. Most of us got our car with a great discount. I don't mind paying a little more in repairs and service to keep it.
It sounds like you did try to survey your car before purchase. Just keep in mind that those repairs are not typical. I bought my 2010 as a CPO with 5800 miles. (Yes, that is only 2 0's and not 3). I am now out of warranty and paid off at 94,000 miles. I have recently had around $700 in unplanned repairs. A front wheel bearing and a rear air shock, but I don't consider those excessive. Once I pass 100k miles this year, I will budget $1,000 per 10k miles for repairs, which is still much cheaper than car payments. I hope to keep the car to 200k which for me is another 5 years.
Yes, repairs and maintenance can be high with these cars, though repairs are better after 2008. I have had 4 European cars and they are all expensive to keep on the road, but probably worth it. If the R Class were as cheap to maintain as a Toyota, you would have to pay Over $30,000 for a used one with 100k miles. Most of us got our car with a great discount. I don't mind paying a little more in repairs and service to keep it.
It sounds like you did try to survey your car before purchase. Just keep in mind that those repairs are not typical. I bought my 2010 as a CPO with 5800 miles. (Yes, that is only 2 0's and not 3). I am now out of warranty and paid off at 94,000 miles. I have recently had around $700 in unplanned repairs. A front wheel bearing and a rear air shock, but I don't consider those excessive. Once I pass 100k miles this year, I will budget $1,000 per 10k miles for repairs, which is still much cheaper than car payments. I hope to keep the car to 200k which for me is another 5 years.
For people who had not seen my old thread about my repair journey, the admin moved it but you can see it here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/extended-...lass-w251.html
Banned
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
$1k per 10K miles??? sorry, it is not going happened. I moved on from my R500 two years ago. In five years, my extended warranty paid out over $20k for all the issues. I know yours is newer but when the car aged, the parts will start to fail. MB parts are just $$$$.
For people who had not seen my old thread about my repair journey, the admin moved it but you can see it here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/extended-...lass-w251.html
For people who had not seen my old thread about my repair journey, the admin moved it but you can see it here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/extended-...lass-w251.html
for someone not a current owner of a mb or r class you sure do frequent this forum. Lets also think about a stealership being presented with a warrantied car. Do Doctors not run more tests if they know it will be covered by insurance. Does the stealership have any incentive to find things they can bill for? I am not saying some things could go wrong. I bet if you were motivated to do so you could almost find a reason to replace the entire car with new parts 10k down the road. Also used cars are all a mystery. even with good records. Who hear would buy a rental car? Even with perfect maintenance records. I find it difficult to use data collected from a sample size of one. You have owned one mercedes r class and you are saying stay away. None of us who are happy owners are saying definitely buy one because ours is perfect. We are explaining what we have experienced and pointing to things you may take into consideration. Good luck in all your future car ventures.
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 229
Likes: 14
From: Akron, OH
2006 R350
I will admit in the early years there were some real lemons... read all about them... but not all of them were bad... just a few...
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 556
Likes: 4
2011 C300 4matic, 2015 Porsche Macan S, 2006 R500 (sold)
Most of the original contributors from this R-class forum have since moved on. I did the same two years ago and cannot be happier. I just want to make sure people understand what they are getting them into especially the pre-2010 R-class before they make the decision on purchase one.
There has to be a reason people can pay less than $10K to buy a car with an original MSRP over $70K less than ten years ago. It is important to budget properly for any future repairs. I also read many of the new owners that ran into problems with their R-class. People can read about my journey and may able to help self-diagnose the problems instead of paying the stealers money to do it.
There has to be a reason people can pay less than $10K to buy a car with an original MSRP over $70K less than ten years ago. It is important to budget properly for any future repairs. I also read many of the new owners that ran into problems with their R-class. People can read about my journey and may able to help self-diagnose the problems instead of paying the stealers money to do it.
Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 203
Likes: 21
From: Doylestown, OH
2015 Audi S4, 1982 Fiat Spyder, 2010 R350, 2013 E550 Cabriolet
Thanks, supermsx. You have certainly paid your dues to still hang around here. My experience with my 2010 is thankfully far different than yours. Were the cars improved that much or is it partly just a matter of luck? Probably a bit of both, but I'm betting on a lot of improvement. I hope I don't lose that bet.
You make a good point about buying a luxury car cheap and not expecting to make it up in repairs. That is certainly why these cars are so cheap on the market. If they had the reliability of Toyotas we would have to pay double for them used. Instead, just realize that total with expected repairs is the fair price and budget for it when you buy it on the cheap. The TCO is definitely something to consider.
This is not my first German car and I have experience taking an Audi to 190k miles and a Volvo to 240k miles. Repairs were always very expensive so you have to just balance the frequency of them and compare them to car payments as long as you still enjoy the car. In both cases I had a good local independent garage specializing in European cars to ease the bills.
You make a good point about buying a luxury car cheap and not expecting to make it up in repairs. That is certainly why these cars are so cheap on the market. If they had the reliability of Toyotas we would have to pay double for them used. Instead, just realize that total with expected repairs is the fair price and budget for it when you buy it on the cheap. The TCO is definitely something to consider.
This is not my first German car and I have experience taking an Audi to 190k miles and a Volvo to 240k miles. Repairs were always very expensive so you have to just balance the frequency of them and compare them to car payments as long as you still enjoy the car. In both cases I had a good local independent garage specializing in European cars to ease the bills.
Last edited by gforaker; Mar 3, 2016 at 02:46 PM.
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 229
Likes: 14
From: Akron, OH
2006 R350
Most of the original contributors from this R-class forum have since moved on. I did the same two years ago and cannot be happier. I just want to make sure people understand what they are getting them into especially the pre-2010 R-class before they make the decision on purchase one.
There has to be a reason people can pay less than $10K to buy a car with an original MSRP over $70K less than ten years ago. It is important to budget properly for any future repairs. I also read many of the new owners that ran into problems with their R-class. People can read about my journey and may able to help self-diagnose the problems instead of paying the stealers money to do it.
There has to be a reason people can pay less than $10K to buy a car with an original MSRP over $70K less than ten years ago. It is important to budget properly for any future repairs. I also read many of the new owners that ran into problems with their R-class. People can read about my journey and may able to help self-diagnose the problems instead of paying the stealers money to do it.
No codes, no instructions on where to look, nothing of any real use..
sorry to be a smart@ss but that is why they moved it to the "extended warranty" section.
Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 179
Likes: 20
From: Southeast Florida
06 SLK55 AMG, 12 R350
I too have been lurking this W251 thread for the last year in the hopes of convincing myself a R is an alternative. As satisfied minivan owners, the wife and I are choosing a replacement for a 185k mile '96 Previa. We've only put 70k miles on it in the last 11 years but this RWD tank has truly served us well.
Can anyone speak to issues/problems (or the lack thereof) on the facelift R model? Is the redesigned 2012 V6 that much better to make it worth buying the newer year?
One thing seems clear, the gas models seem a safer choice after reading of the potential for bad luck with an out of warranty diesel. Thanks to che che and the other diesel owners on MBW for sharing the issues.
Any feedback is appreciated.
Can anyone speak to issues/problems (or the lack thereof) on the facelift R model? Is the redesigned 2012 V6 that much better to make it worth buying the newer year?
One thing seems clear, the gas models seem a safer choice after reading of the potential for bad luck with an out of warranty diesel. Thanks to che che and the other diesel owners on MBW for sharing the issues.
Any feedback is appreciated.
