Anabolic Frolic

I am looking at purchasing a 1992 600SEL w/ 29000 original miles. The car is a 1-owner Arizona car, that judging by the interior/exterior, has always been garaged. The asking price is $19K (NADA pricing suggests $17K-20K retail price) and I figure I can pick the vehicle up for about $15K.
Here is a photo of the vehicle:


I am taking a cross-country (coast to coast) roadtrip in May and I dont really want to put the miles and wear/tear on the new 06 Porsche Cayenne S, but i want something that will provide plenty of comfort and room for the long trip. This 600SEL sitting on the lot here at a local dealer really caught my eye. Ive always loved the W140 big bodies benz's. I took it for a test drive about a month ago and it was a great. The v12 is sooo smooth and the car is incredibly quiet, plus its loaded with more features than our 06 fully loaded Porsche Cayenne S.
I dont really need or have much room for ANOTHER vehicle in the garage, but I have fallen in love with this car and I figure i could buy it for the road trip and turn around sell it after the trip if i feel so inclined.

My questions are in terms of the relability for the roadtrip. The last thing I want is critical mechanical issues when im 1500 miles away from home. Ive been told that these W140's are arguably some of the best-built Benz's, but they are also full of all sorts of electronic gadgets. What are some things I should check out before buying the vehicle to ensure its really worthy of such a long road trip? Can a mercedes dealership pull up the maintenace history on the vehicle for me so that I can be assured that the car has been serviced regularly by certified MB dealerships its entire life? Finally, If I turn around and sell this vehicle after the roadtrip, is it going to be tough to sell? Is this a rare vehicle that will have some appeal to a buyer? or is it gonna sit on the lot under connsignment for 6 months?
Further, if I decide I wish to keep the vehicle for some time beyond the roadtrip ( i will probably fall in love with it), what sort of maintenance costs should I expect with this vehicle and its complex v12 engine? Will I be paying a premium for oil changes and basic service because of the V12?
I appologize for the long post but I want to make sure this purschase is not based entirely on emotion (hard not to do this with a car thats so amazing) and I have some solid info to ensure this purchase makes financial sense. Thanks in Advance.

MBHustla858

its got the 29k miles cause the car wasn't running for most of its life probrably.


these cars are the worst in maintenence and repair..... for example. valve cover gaskets. l&r 1100. one came in this last week for a oil leak... turns out the oil cooler is leaking and its in the middle of the two heads soo.. both headds need to come off at 44k miles....... also if u don't drive it regularly.... the valve get stuck and the car won't start... its a real stupid car. don't waste ur time.... get a 95-96 s500 insteaed

Anabolic Frolic

Interesting. This is good information to know.
However, being such a negative outlook, I would like to hear the opinions of several others as well, to see if this a common view point. I am not disagreeing with you, or saying that your opinion doesnt matter, but since I am not familiar with this car or the members of this forum, I would like to get the opinion of several people before making a decision one way or the other. Thank you for the response tho, and I hope the case w. this car isnt as bad as you say, because I do like the car. But no so much that I want to buy one big hassle.

Dzokayi

I'll weigh in. The vast majority of people who knock 12-cylinder cars have never owned one. Running costs (within a family of vehicles, such as the S-class Mercedes) will be fairly similar for most items. Brakes, tires, many of the engine accessories are shared between the models. The cost on these items is exactly the same. Labor may be higher on the V12 due to space constraints in the engine bay.

Of course an oil change for the V12 will cost you more - it holds 11.x (roughly) quarts vs. maybe half that for the V8. You have 12 spark plugs and injectors. 2 air filters, etc.

Then the 12-cylinder models also come equipped to a higher standard, so there will be more toys to break (the pneumatic (or is it hydraulic) suspension, the parking assist sensors, etc.). Those toys are in no way directly related to the engine or its reliability.

I owned a Jaguar XJ-S V12. Maintenance intensive is putting it mildly. But is it that much more to run than an XJ6? Not really, provided the engine itself doesn't blow up on you.

I've been researching the W140 (I'm after a coupe). I've decided to hold out for a V12 model. After talking with mechanics and owners, not to mention several test drives, I'm convinced that the running costs are well worth a small premium over the V8.

Drive a V12 and V8 back-to-back. The level of refinement, the improvement of ride quality and power are immediately apparent in the V12 model.

Back to your specific vehicle... I would definitely have a pre-purchase inspection done. Use whatever the mechanic finds as a bargaining tool to lower the price. Maybe the dealer will fix some of these things for the asking price. Use the car as a daily driver for a good month before your trip. Watch out for anything strange. before your trip, take it back for another once-over.

It seems that these cars (like so many high-end vehicles) don't like to sit. They like to be driven. Watch out for leaks.

If everything pans out on the inspection, and they come down on the price - go for it! Let us know what you decide.

Cheers...

HLG600

Thank you. In regards to this SEL, it looks to be a clean car judging from its history. Yes, it takes more gas and oil, but engine is extremely solid and well built. Just have a MB Professional look over the car and maybe even run a compression test, just to make sure everything is in order. I enjoy the V12 purely for the driving experience. The smooth wealth of power is even worth the ridiculous gas mileage.

brett san diego

Exactly what I wanted to say, but didn't have the energy to type. There are common problems with W140's. Just read the forums here and at www.mbnz.org. Window regulators, closing assist system, AC evaporators, engine wiring harnesses through 1995 cars. I can't point out any particular V12 issues that I'm aware of.

Buying this car is no different from buying any other car. Get a pre-purchase inspection by someone who knows these cars. Look for records of routine and up-to-date maintenance. Drive it and see how it goes, stops, turns, etc. Make a reasonable offer.

Brett

BenzKid24

When I was looking for a S class 2 years ago I found the s500 I have,I was wanting the s600,but i was told the 600 isnt a very good car to have in high heat climates(AZ,TX,CALI,NM,NV)ect. I was told they run hotter and for a used 600.It really doesnt sound wise but again I have never owned one,but I do admit I wonder what it had been like buying the 600 rather then the 500,but I have no regrets on my s500..good luck with your choice.

Dzokayi

...is a load of rubbish. Come on, these cars are torture tested in Dubai, Death Valley, and some of the hottest places on earth. There is probably a greater concentration of 600s in the United Arab Emirates than anywhere else on the planet... do you know how hot it gets over there?

Now if your cooling system is somehow compromised, then yes, I would imagine the big V12 in that tight bonnet will let you know about it pretty quickly.... but to discourage someone in Texas from buying a 600 is just ridiculous.

BenzKid24, you might look at a 600 now - I'd just ask that you wait till I find mine first .

midget fidger

Our 1992 500SEL has a TON of problems. Transmission, AC, and a bunch of broken electronics. It just sits around because it's worth nothing and it would be a big pain trying to sell it. I don't think 15k is the right price for that car. We paid 16? or 18k for the 500SEL about four years ago! Then again, this one doesn't have a whole lot of miles on it. I would rather get a 96 or 97 model with more miles than a 92.

Anabolic Frolic

Thank you for the realistic, straight forward insight. Its much appreciated. It will be a good two weeks before I can get back down to the dealership to check out the benz again, So right now I am trying to get as much information as possible to help me make the correct decision.
I will definatly be contacting the the local MB dealer for some service records and a second, more lengthy, test drive is required. I will also look into arrangng a dealer inspection as well.
I will keep everybody posted on what I end up doing. I hope the cards lay out in my favor and I end picking it up because I rely love the looks of the car and that big v12!.

Anabolic Frolic

I read your more indepth reply over on mbnz.org. Thanks for the replies both here and there. Ill add these items to my list of things to carefully inspect before I make a decision.

Chi500

You can always take your navigator on your trip.

Hattaresguy

Provided they are in good shape and were taken care of M120's don't seem to be to bad. Remember though at least in US markets their is a world of difference between an S500-S600. The S600 has the V12 of course, but the suspension is different, and they came with a lot more options inside. They may both be W140's but we are talking about an apples and oranges comparison here.

The V12 itself is pretty much two M104 I6's with a common block. So it has two of everything and actually will run just fine on 6 cyliners.

Just remember it was a $130k car new, and if you buy a $130k having to put $5k into it once in awhile isn't exactly a big deal. Fuel mileage was a non issue. It is pretty bad though think very low teens around town, maybe 20 on the highway if you drive real slow with the AC off.

Anabolic Frolic

Yea, but what would be the fun in that? hehe. The truth of the matter is this: The Cayenne was a christmas gift to my wife this past december, and she loves the thing to death. She justs gets in it and drives for the hell of it, something she has never done before in the past except with her Mazda MX-5 miatas. She has been pushing to take the Cayenne on this x-country roadtrip since she got the thing. I just really dont want to take our (her) brand new, nice and shiny $80K SUV on this roadtrip and expose it to all the nasties of cross-country driving (rocks, tar, bugs etc etc). She, being a woman, wont listen to reason, and wouldnt even consider letting me take the Lincoln Navigator on the drive.. well... because its not her Porsche. She wouldnt have any problem, however, taking the cool "new" 600SEL on the drive because its a whole new and exciting toy and its very comfortable to ride in. So I see the 600SEL as a win-win situation. (1) I dont put the miles on the Cayenne, (2) I get a car Ive always adored, and (3) she isnt terribly upset at not getting to take the Cayenne.
See the logic now, its as clear as mud? heheh.

Anabolic Frolic

Thanks for the reply. This is the 3rd time now Ive been told that the V12 is essentially two of I6's. This solidifies that fact in my mind now. It seemed logical that there would be plenty of parts carryover between the two because its just more economical and that would yeild more profit for Mercedes.

Gas Mileage is not really something I worry too much about. I mean just look at the vehicles in my garage: (Porsche Cayenne S, Lincoln Navigator, a 496CI Chevy Big-Block powered 1970 Chevelle which is good for MAYBE 7mpg). So paying an arm and a leg at the pump isnt going to shock me. If anything I may impressed with the gas mileage it gets.

I think Ive accepted the idea that maintenance is going to reflect the fact that this car is a top-shelf $130K vehicle (even if i can buy it today for 15K). So paying a decent bit for routine service doesnt bother me (oil changes, tune-ups, brakes etc).

The realability of all the gadgets and gizmos inside the cabin is not a huge concern for me. I can accept the failure of some minor interior niceties and could probably live without them functioning if the cost to fix them costs obscene amounts of cash.

My real concern is the cricitical elements of the vehicle (mechanical elements like the Engine, Transmission and Suspension) going south on me and leaving me with a hunk of German-made steel that is sitting lifeless on the side of the road in the middle of who-knows-where.

Bernanke

FYI, they have high performance chips on ebay for hte 92-95 S600s, they improve performance a very significant amount and also improve shifting quality as well. just FYI.

Hattaresguy

Well for a x country trip I would go over the car when you get it. New air filters, fuel filters, cabin air filters. Replace the spark plugs and serp belt. Change the oil, change the trans fluid. Change the coolant and since its older replace at least the upper radiator hose if not a few more. Also just drive it for a bit and see what crops up, if anything. My friends dad has had a 1995 for a few years now and it has been trouble free.

Pretty much a major service, S600's do run a bit warm lots of engine under the hood. But their is a mod you can do that will make the electric fans come on much sooner and keep the temps down by a fair margin. It involves replacing the switch that controls the electric fans, thats as much as I know about it though.

Other then that they are pretty reliable driveline wise. Its stuff like the door assit that kills you with W140's. All that nickel and dime stuff that costs $500.

Anabolic Frolic

Definatly sounds like a good idea. A thorough major service would just make sense on any older vehicle before taking a long road trip. In addition, I would definatly spend some time with the car before i took off on the trip to make sure a month of daily driving doesnt bring any underlying problems to the surface.
As for little nickel & dime problems. I think I can accept those and fix them at my leisure.. assuming they arnt issues that severely detract from the enjoyment and driveablity of the car.

atikovi

Geez, don’t over analyze the purchase. If you want it, and you can afford it, buy it. Case closed.

Anabolic Frolic

I am an engineer. I over-analyze everything

Rod Spohn

Anoboli... Its a great car.. you mentioned checking if it was dealer serviced. Hey a lot of us do the maint. ourself so if it checks out upon inspection do it. I change oil every 3000 and other fluids each year but there is no "dealer/carfax" to show it. Most of us love our Sclass and take better than average care of them. My 2 cents.... as with all cars you have good ones and bad ones the Sclass leans more to the good. I resently took mine on a road trip & feel it was one of the nicest for ride and enjoyment of any car I've driven. Now mine is only an s320 but I would love a 600.

Midget Fidget.. To bad you live so far away...your SEL would make a nice project/fixer upper.

Drive on

Hattaresguy

I know a few engineer's pretty well...twisted sick folks...over analyze everything.

Drives me nuts I can't understand half of what they say.

Toog4me

I'm boggled with the fact that you would rather spend 15k on a 14 year old car as apposed to driving one of the many vehicles that you currently own.

$15,000 on a used car to avoid driving the $80k or $50k car?

Anabolic Frolic

Because I like the Benz. Its a really nice vehicle. Buying it for some purpose other than pure pleasure helps justify the cost. I dont need another vehicle, ive got plently. Wanting something and needing something are completely different though.. but I like to at least have a little logic behind a purchase.

Hattaresguy

How true how true. Run that V12 up to redline a few times and you will have all the justification you could want.