Newbie and question on catalytics S600
04-16-2015, 04:58 PM
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S600L-W140
Newbie and question on catalytics S600
Hi,
I just introduced myself in the dedicated section.
So, I'm Richard from France.
Please excuse some lack of technical terms.
I have an S600L, january 1995.
A couple of weeks ago, one of my ignition coils went out.
I drove back home with the right side exhaust smoking and stinking.
Chance, I was only 1 km from home and driving slowly (30 km per hour).
The right hand catalytic converter was starting to become red in the center.
I had the smog test passed after that. Was hard to pass, but managed.
So I changed the 2 coils, 2 distributors, 2 rotors to be on the safe side.
I now have to change the 2 catalytic converters (I want to change both of them just to be with all new stuff).
I'm not planning on putting OEM parts for this...I already asked for a quote at the dealers.
I have found a nice priced option in the UK (~200£/per unit).
They are sold as plug and play so there is the front piping with the catalytics.
It's not a generic thing that I must adjust/solder after (like the Magnaflow that I have found too).
THE question is :
Are the catalytics, and the piping, the same for RHD and for LHD?
These aftermarket parts are made by copying the OEM catalytics which are :
140 490 04 19
and
140 490 05 19
These are part numbers for a RHD (UK Version).
Will they fit plug and play on a LHD?
I cannot take the part numbers on mine as reference as it is a japanese model with the "temp exh" sensors on them and thus they have another part number.
Thanks to all for your feedback.
I just introduced myself in the dedicated section.
So, I'm Richard from France.
Please excuse some lack of technical terms.
I have an S600L, january 1995.
A couple of weeks ago, one of my ignition coils went out.
I drove back home with the right side exhaust smoking and stinking.
Chance, I was only 1 km from home and driving slowly (30 km per hour).
The right hand catalytic converter was starting to become red in the center.
I had the smog test passed after that. Was hard to pass, but managed.
So I changed the 2 coils, 2 distributors, 2 rotors to be on the safe side.
I now have to change the 2 catalytic converters (I want to change both of them just to be with all new stuff).
I'm not planning on putting OEM parts for this...I already asked for a quote at the dealers.
I have found a nice priced option in the UK (~200£/per unit).
They are sold as plug and play so there is the front piping with the catalytics.
It's not a generic thing that I must adjust/solder after (like the Magnaflow that I have found too).
THE question is :
Are the catalytics, and the piping, the same for RHD and for LHD?
These aftermarket parts are made by copying the OEM catalytics which are :
140 490 04 19
and
140 490 05 19
These are part numbers for a RHD (UK Version).
Will they fit plug and play on a LHD?
I cannot take the part numbers on mine as reference as it is a japanese model with the "temp exh" sensors on them and thus they have another part number.
Thanks to all for your feedback.
06-20-2015, 07:38 PM
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Some feedback that could be usefull to others.
I bought the RHD cats and I can confirm that RHD and LHD have the same cats as far as the V12 M120 is concerned.
But, I had a hard time putting the LHS one on.
It's diameter was not big enough (lacking ~1mm) so I made 2 cuts on the pipe coming from the car so the pipe would reduce it's diameter a little.
I also had to cut the original pipe coming down from the engine to shorten it. I took off 8mm because the cats pipe wouldn't go far enough to allow for the fitting of the cat pipe that goes upward to the manifold.
Then the Y pipe on this LHS cat was badly welded and is leaking.
I'll have to take it off again as the welder doesn't want to weld on the car to avoid risks for the electronics.
And last, the brackets on this LHS cat that connect to the RHS cat were welded akward and impossible to link.
I cut them off and will have them welded right when the cats are taken off again.
I will be driving the car without the cats in between 2 smog tests (every 2 years).
The original cats are being cut out and will be replaced by simple pipes.
The O² sensors and temp sensors will be put back in these simple pipes.
For the actual cats, I cannot put the temp sensors (only on Japan version) back in. Only the O² sensors can fit.
So I'm driving with them still plugged into the car but just attached underneath the transmission tunnel.
I contacted the seller and we are ok to say there is a very bad manufacture flaw on the LHS cat.
But it would cost too much to send it back, have it checked, get a refund or other cat.
So, I'm going to bite the bullet and pay personnally for these issues.
It's still the cheapest option I had to replace those cats...
Here are some pics to illustrate :
I had my back cat sand-blasted and repainted. Before/after :
I bought the RHD cats and I can confirm that RHD and LHD have the same cats as far as the V12 M120 is concerned.
But, I had a hard time putting the LHS one on.
It's diameter was not big enough (lacking ~1mm) so I made 2 cuts on the pipe coming from the car so the pipe would reduce it's diameter a little.
I also had to cut the original pipe coming down from the engine to shorten it. I took off 8mm because the cats pipe wouldn't go far enough to allow for the fitting of the cat pipe that goes upward to the manifold.
Then the Y pipe on this LHS cat was badly welded and is leaking.
I'll have to take it off again as the welder doesn't want to weld on the car to avoid risks for the electronics.
And last, the brackets on this LHS cat that connect to the RHS cat were welded akward and impossible to link.
I cut them off and will have them welded right when the cats are taken off again.
I will be driving the car without the cats in between 2 smog tests (every 2 years).
The original cats are being cut out and will be replaced by simple pipes.
The O² sensors and temp sensors will be put back in these simple pipes.
For the actual cats, I cannot put the temp sensors (only on Japan version) back in. Only the O² sensors can fit.
So I'm driving with them still plugged into the car but just attached underneath the transmission tunnel.
I contacted the seller and we are ok to say there is a very bad manufacture flaw on the LHS cat.
But it would cost too much to send it back, have it checked, get a refund or other cat.
So, I'm going to bite the bullet and pay personnally for these issues.
It's still the cheapest option I had to replace those cats...
Here are some pics to illustrate :
I had my back cat sand-blasted and repainted. Before/after :
06-20-2015, 07:40 PM
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Ok, according to Mercedes dealer, the A/C clutch is the culprit.
As it is not detailed, you have to buy the whole A/C compressor.
I bought it on Rockauto.com and took a new Denso (not reconditionned) and a Hella dryer.
End of this month, it is going to the A/C shop.
My replacement Kats have been taken out and I have put in direct tubes.
Keeping the 0² sensors AND the temperature sensors (Japanese version) on the direct tubes.
Before :
After :
Sound is more "crispy" under acceleration and cutting off.
On cruising speed, don't hear any difference.
On idle, the car sounds a bit like an old muscle car from the 70/80's in the end of the exhaust.
Glouglouglou...
I can confirm that the car will drive ok with the temperature sensors plugged but not connected to the exhaust (my replacement kats don't have the holes to put them in as they are UK type...).
I tucked them in the clamp that holds the wires when they're plugged on the exhaust and while I was waiting for the welder to do the direct tubes.
No error codes or whatever.
I was even thinking of unplugging them, but I didn't want to leave the plug on the car empty and plenty of road sh*t going in there. Never know...
So I'm keeping them in on my direct tubes.
The gas mileage seems better and the engine seems more brutal in KD mode. The ASR light on the speedo keeps coming on when I floor it (don't do it often though).
Picture of the inside of the destroyed Kat :
The 2 Kats were sold to a specialized company for 240€...the direct tubes cost me 300€. So, not such a bad deal. Especially if the gas mileage gets better too!
The welder repaired the leaky Y pipe.
Before :
After :
But I didn't care for the brackets to be repaired as I'm only going to use the Kats for the smog tests every 2 years and take them out as soon as the test is done.
As it is not detailed, you have to buy the whole A/C compressor.
I bought it on Rockauto.com and took a new Denso (not reconditionned) and a Hella dryer.
End of this month, it is going to the A/C shop.
My replacement Kats have been taken out and I have put in direct tubes.
Keeping the 0² sensors AND the temperature sensors (Japanese version) on the direct tubes.
Before :
After :
Sound is more "crispy" under acceleration and cutting off.
On cruising speed, don't hear any difference.
On idle, the car sounds a bit like an old muscle car from the 70/80's in the end of the exhaust.
Glouglouglou...
I can confirm that the car will drive ok with the temperature sensors plugged but not connected to the exhaust (my replacement kats don't have the holes to put them in as they are UK type...).
I tucked them in the clamp that holds the wires when they're plugged on the exhaust and while I was waiting for the welder to do the direct tubes.
No error codes or whatever.
I was even thinking of unplugging them, but I didn't want to leave the plug on the car empty and plenty of road sh*t going in there. Never know...
So I'm keeping them in on my direct tubes.
The gas mileage seems better and the engine seems more brutal in KD mode. The ASR light on the speedo keeps coming on when I floor it (don't do it often though).
Picture of the inside of the destroyed Kat :
The 2 Kats were sold to a specialized company for 240€...the direct tubes cost me 300€. So, not such a bad deal. Especially if the gas mileage gets better too!
The welder repaired the leaky Y pipe.
Before :
After :
But I didn't care for the brackets to be repaired as I'm only going to use the Kats for the smog tests every 2 years and take them out as soon as the test is done.
Last edited by GSX1400; 06-20-2015 at 07:47 PM.
06-20-2015, 07:41 PM
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Some other questions now :
1° I have an air pump for the exhaust. Should I cut it off some way AND how would you do this?
Some people are saying that I could have problems on my valves running an air pump without Kats in.
Your point of view on this question?
2° How do you get the ECU box out (I have to change the MAF harness, only this harness)? Any pictures of this box and advice on how and what to do?
I looked on my DVD shop manual and didn't find the information.
3° How do you change the spark plug cables/leads? Do I have to take the inlet manifold out???
4° I'm still looking for the power steering filter...can't find it.
1° I have an air pump for the exhaust. Should I cut it off some way AND how would you do this?
Some people are saying that I could have problems on my valves running an air pump without Kats in.
Your point of view on this question?
2° How do you get the ECU box out (I have to change the MAF harness, only this harness)? Any pictures of this box and advice on how and what to do?
I looked on my DVD shop manual and didn't find the information.
3° How do you change the spark plug cables/leads? Do I have to take the inlet manifold out???
4° I'm still looking for the power steering filter...can't find it.
07-23-2015, 07:59 AM
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Sort of a monologue, but the feedback could be usefull...
1° The air pump only runs on cold start for a couple odf seconds. Don't touch it. No problems to be have. It is used for pollution reduction at cold start until the Kats heat up.
2° 4 Allen nuts are to be taken out.
These ones where you see red arrows.
First take the cover off (4 allen bolts/yellow circles and two clamps ; one on RHS and one on LHS). First picture.
Then take the ECUs out, finally take the allen bolts (red circles) out. Second, third and forth pictures.
3° The intake manifolds have to come off to change the spark plug wires...what a pity.
4° No power steering filter to be changed. There is a sort of filter, but built in the steering fluid tank.
1° The air pump only runs on cold start for a couple odf seconds. Don't touch it. No problems to be have. It is used for pollution reduction at cold start until the Kats heat up.
2° 4 Allen nuts are to be taken out.
These ones where you see red arrows.
First take the cover off (4 allen bolts/yellow circles and two clamps ; one on RHS and one on LHS). First picture.
Then take the ECUs out, finally take the allen bolts (red circles) out. Second, third and forth pictures.
3° The intake manifolds have to come off to change the spark plug wires...what a pity.
4° No power steering filter to be changed. There is a sort of filter, but built in the steering fluid tank.
Last edited by GSX1400; 07-23-2015 at 08:04 AM.
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02-13-2017, 05:18 AM
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Hi, that is some digging...
Never got much participation on this thread.
I just had the Kats part removed. Kept the resonator and end silencer.
I'll be passing the smog test in a couple of months and will put the Kats back on.
It's easy as plug and play, I had planned on this when having the mod' done.
Video :
http://s16.photobucket.com/user/GSX1...g1ckb.mp4.html
The squealing sound in the video is the air pump ball bearing.
I'll have to change that some day.
The air pump goes off after a minute or so. No more noise after.
It also cuts out if you accelerate hard. It'll go back on after returning to idle until the "minute of air injection for the Kats" is finished.
That's what you hear on the video.
Another one at the end silencer :
http://s16.photobucket.com/user/GSX1...lakis.mp4.html
BTW (had posted here on this problem) : my A/C was not working because of a wire cut at the plug on the A/C compressor.
I had the compressor, the dryer bottle, the sensor on the bottle changed for nothing. Cost me 900€!!! Very mad...
My heating duovalve went bezerk too. Was heating the car at 80°C!!!
I changed the inside with a repair kit on Ebay coming from China. Cheap 90€ work. Easy to do.
Never got much participation on this thread.
I just had the Kats part removed. Kept the resonator and end silencer.
I'll be passing the smog test in a couple of months and will put the Kats back on.
It's easy as plug and play, I had planned on this when having the mod' done.
Video :
http://s16.photobucket.com/user/GSX1...g1ckb.mp4.html
The squealing sound in the video is the air pump ball bearing.
I'll have to change that some day.
The air pump goes off after a minute or so. No more noise after.
It also cuts out if you accelerate hard. It'll go back on after returning to idle until the "minute of air injection for the Kats" is finished.
That's what you hear on the video.
Another one at the end silencer :
http://s16.photobucket.com/user/GSX1...lakis.mp4.html
BTW (had posted here on this problem) : my A/C was not working because of a wire cut at the plug on the A/C compressor.
I had the compressor, the dryer bottle, the sensor on the bottle changed for nothing. Cost me 900€!!! Very mad...
My heating duovalve went bezerk too. Was heating the car at 80°C!!!
I changed the inside with a repair kit on Ebay coming from China. Cheap 90€ work. Easy to do.
02-13-2017, 08:26 AM
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
you can weld on a car,the ignition cuts power,or you can disconnect battery if you want to feel better.I weld all the time,the newer models maybe a problem.
02-24-2017, 12:03 PM
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I never tried top speed before/after taking out the Cats.
I don't know then.
The acceleration and, especially, taking over, seem more punchy. The ASR light goes on often...
Gas mileage on the gauge (instant mileage) seems better. But when I calculate, it's the same as before more or less ; nothing really noticeable.
I have to say this car is not a fuel guzzler on highways. I get an average of 11.5 to 12.5 liters for 100 kilometers which is 20.45 to 18.82 MPG.
Cruising speed is 110 to 120 km/h or 70/75 mph. I use for long trips essentially.
Oh, and no différence in engine temperature.
I don't know then.
The acceleration and, especially, taking over, seem more punchy. The ASR light goes on often...
Gas mileage on the gauge (instant mileage) seems better. But when I calculate, it's the same as before more or less ; nothing really noticeable.
I have to say this car is not a fuel guzzler on highways. I get an average of 11.5 to 12.5 liters for 100 kilometers which is 20.45 to 18.82 MPG.
Cruising speed is 110 to 120 km/h or 70/75 mph. I use for long trips essentially.
Oh, and no différence in engine temperature.
02-24-2017, 01:01 PM
#14
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Ya done good
An interesting read and not a wasted effort. I found it all to be useful information. Knowledge is power. Thanks for taking the time to post it all.
07-20-2017, 12:22 PM
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1998 Mercedes Benz S500
Pipe diameter
Hi Rich,
I am in the process of replacing cats on my 97 S600 and I am going with aftermarket Magnaflow cats. I wanted to ask can you confirm the diameter of the pipe coming from the manifolds (engine side) connecting to the original cats? is it a 2.25 inch or a 2.5 inch? Thanks and I really appreciate it.
I am in the process of replacing cats on my 97 S600 and I am going with aftermarket Magnaflow cats. I wanted to ask can you confirm the diameter of the pipe coming from the manifolds (engine side) connecting to the original cats? is it a 2.25 inch or a 2.5 inch? Thanks and I really appreciate it.
07-21-2017, 10:31 AM
#16
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they don't test in my state,so I get rid of them.I have heard if you run e85 before smog test,you will pass with no cats.don't know how true it is.
