Reckless

I saw the deal that Kleemann was offering and it seems much cheaper than the Renntech. But I've seen a video of the Renntech S600 taking out the a turbo supra and was very impressed. I was wondering if it's worth the extra $2-3k more to get the Renntech.

Can anyone tell me their stories? I am also worried that I tend to abuse and beat on my cars causing them to go into the shop alot and it may affect my warranty and/or they may reflash ECU/TCU.

This is probably the only performance mod that i am planning. I don't do any drag racing but alot of speeding and some street racing.

Gondon

Its just a sale right now Its $2500 instead of the the regualr $4500 for Kleeman.

silver65

I opted for RENNtech. I don't know if they are worth more than Kleeman, as I never tried Kleeman. But RENNtech is right down the street from me. I have not had a problem with their tuning. The car is definitely faster!!! I took a friend for a ride the other day and stomped on it. He described it as, "It felt like someone grabbed the back of my shirt and pulled me back into the seat. It scared the crap out of me." Not bad for an almost five thousand pound sedan!!
I have not taken the car to the track, so I don't know what she will do in the quarter mile, but I have competed on the street, occasionally. The only time I was defeated was by a super modded C5 Vette. When I got a chance to talk with him, he said he was surprised that I hung as close to him as I did. His car runs consistent 10.5's in the quarter mile. This is my second biturbo car tuned by them. I give them 2 thumbs up!

Oxygen

My friends usually describe the feeling as "Going down a very steep hill on a rollercoaster... Oh my god it's so smooth!"

Reckless

I know Renntech is more popular and seems to be more recognized. I am leaning towards it even though its a few thousand more.

Does it make it harder to drive in the snow/rain? Are you ever worried that the mercedes dealer may reflash your ECU/TCU or your warranty claims may ever be rejected.

Oxygen

Harder to drive in the snow and rain? Well the S600 is not a very good car to drive in the snow, tuned or not, you're still pumping out almost 600ft-lb of torque even when it's stock.

Rain is fine, don't try to floor it though. As soon as it starts making boost it will break loose in almost any gear and you might start shifting sideways.

Snow... well... not a good idea...

silver65

The car is very easy to drive. Maintain throttle control!! Just keep your foot out of it in the rain. No Snow here in South Florida, Thank God!!!!! I took my car in to the dealer last month for an ABC issue. They fixed the problem with no hassles. I would think as long as the warranty issue has nothing to do with the ECU/TCU, you have no worries. And even if it does, there are laws to protect you.

Reckless

I am having second thoughts about spending $2400 more for the Renntech as opposed to the Kleemann. It sounds like they do the same thing but one is cheaper.

Kleeman stage 2: 627 hp/772 lb ft torque
Renntech: 625 hp/775 lb ft torque

I've known about the Renntech chip for years, but Kleemann I hadn't heard of until I became involved on this site.

Busa196

Let me be your ginny pig.

I've already purchased the Kleemann ECU for my S65 but haven't installed it yet as I wanted to get some good base-line dyno numbers and ET's before I made the change. I've already hit the dyno with it in stock trim and put down 530rwhp (no pick up for a trq reading). I'm headed to the track tonight to get some good idea of ET's.....next week I'll be putting in the ECU upgrade and heading back to the track for back-to-back comparisons and then back to the same dyno......that will tell the true story. Granted, you'll see better better results in the 600 vs. the 65, but this should give you some kind of idea of Kleemann's claims for additional power.

I chatted with Brandon at Kleemann several times before making the purchase.....sharp guy, very sharp. Felt very confident in purchasing from him- and he was willing to work with me on re-flash issues if the dealer were to ever set mine back to factory......and for $2500??? That was a no-brainer to me........to be confirmed as per above

Reckless

Busa - Thanks, man! That's exactly what I was looking for.

I talked with my mechanic this morning and he was telling me that he has seen a transmission pop in a S600 from being stressed beyond its limits with one of these software upgrades.

silver65

That happens every once in a while with my S600. Only if I turn off the traction control from 1st to 2nd. It exceeds the tranny torque limits. I have to turn the car off and restart it, and it resets. I've talked with RENNtech and they said to bring the car in to see what they can do. I also saw a tranny upgrade on their site, not the TCU flash, but something else. I wrote to Bob Brady, and asked exactly what they do, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.

Reckless

Busa: let me know... my mechanic is refusing to work on the car if I do the upgrades.... he claims that it causes more problems that start to show up in a year or so. I don't want to believe him but I do trust him and his work (maybe not their judgment completely).

whoover

Keep in mind that the tranny is rated for 1000 Nm (738 ft-lbs). This is the weak link in the powertrain. Because of it, MB has had to limit the S65 and other 65s (even including the SL65 Black Series) to 738 ft-lbs electronically. It would be trivial for them to increase the power and torque of the V12 by 100 HP and ft-lbs (just remove the limiter) if they had a way to strenghten the tranny. It must have killed the AMG engineers to not be able to deliver more than 738 ft-lbs in the SL65 BS.

How does RennTech add 100 ft-lbs to the S65? By removing the limiter. Does that sound like a good idea? Do they really know something the AMG engineers don't? Or maybe they're counting on the fact that most people aren't going to use all that torque very often. But if you do, what do you think is going to happen?

The good news is that the S600 mods don't exceed the 738 limit by as much as the S65 mods do, because the 65 already starts out there. But you're playing Russian roulette with your power train, and this is what your mechanic is trying to tell you.

CHunter323232

Hey guys, SLR is advertising Performance chips for my 2005 S600 for like $69.00. They claim it would be programmed and add 50 hp, 50 ft lbs and +3-6 mpg. Can this be true? Could any part of this car be bettered by something so inexpensive? Please, anyone with experience be kind enough to help me before I try things I should or shouldn't. If it is true, that would be awesome, If not, I don't want to damage my beloved car...

CHunter323232

Gondon

I'm pretty sure the physical limit is 838 FT-Pounds of Torque.

Reckless

Silver65: That sucks! Do you have both the ECU/TCU upgrade from Renntech? I am surprised it has that problem since they are very reputable. When I'm saying popped... I mean its destroyed.

Whoover & Gondon: Cory from Kleemann claims the limit is 1100 NM (811 lb/ft.).

chunter: I wouldn't trust those chips.

Oxygen

Please... don't be foolish. Who are they kidding?

Others have bought this chip for "****s and giggles" and here is what they found... Here is your SLR chip:

Oxygen

Exactly what he said.

The W5A900 722.649 transmission is used in the 600s, 65/65BS and the Maybach 57S/62S. The 55s use the W5A580 722.643.

If you blow it the part is A240-270-05-00 and Mercedes lists it for $6,470.00!

silver65

Yes, I have both the ECU and TCU tunes. RENNtech has asked me to bring it by and they will take a look. But one of the options Bob at RENNtech mentioned was detuning the motor a bit. I'm not in favor of that. What I would like is a transmission solution. They have a transmission upgrade on their site on page 13 in the W220 catalog. This is for all W220's: 1. Transmission upgrade-322200092 $2495.00 I've asked Bob what the techs actually do to the tranny, but I have gotten no response as of yet. If there is some way to strengthen the transmission, that's what I'm looking for.

Well, my transmission is not destroyed yet. Here's what happens. The tranny will disengage if I stress it way too much. If I turn off traction control, and nail the throttle from a dead stop, and let it try to shift to second, Boom, no second. I have to turn the car off, and restart it. Then it's fine. Sets off a transmission code. I cant remember what one, I'll ask my mechanic. It happened once when I was doing about 50 and dropped the hammer. But that was only once and temperatures were about 50 degrees. The engine was definitely feeling it's oats that day. I will bring it back to RENNtech when I get some spare time. They are very close to me. It's just finding the time and dropping it off.

Reckless

silver65: I saw that in the Renntech price list and thought it was the same software upgrade they include with the ECU/TCU for $5400 (just separated).

When you go back to Renntech if you are able to ask them if they removed the protection features built into the programming to reduce the risk of shock loads between shifts (such as torque overload). Kleemann claims they don't remove them.


oxygen: $6470 doesn't seem that expensive... but I bet it costs a lot in labor to install.

MarkoCL65

I've been driving my car pretty hard and cannot say enough good things about my VRP tune. The car drives completely like stock until you mash the pedal. As an avid drag racer, it was important for me to choose a tuner who could work with me and push the envelope with me. I could not be happier as we have set numerous records without any compromise.

whoover

All I know is that transmission is the W5A-1000, MB rates it at 1,000 Nm and limits every engine they mate to it to 1,000 Nm, including the SL65 BS.

http://www.kleemann.dk/site/75AA8CA3...1E6D6E94AF.htm

Reckless

Marko: How many miles have your had the VRP tune? 912 is really impressive. Are you worried about your tranny at all?

whoover: Thanks for the link... I am going to ask Kleemann about it.

MarkoCL65

I've put 6500 miles on the tune roughly. So far I have no issues with my transmission. I told VRP to open it up and if the tranny goes, I can also upgrade that. You can opt for a torque limit with your tune, I opted without one. Keep in mind my car made almost 200 more lb ft of torque from the intercoolers. If you don't have their upgraded intercoolers, your torque should be around 750 lb ft at the wheels.

Gondon

912 at the wheels is like 1200 Torque