chetoc230

Yes, i've STFF and i've read up on most of the airmatic issues... i just wanted to get your opinion on what i should do or not.

2001 S500, 47ish K miles on the odo. Give or take a couple, i cant remember exactly how many miles i have...

Went to get both motor mounts and trans mount replaced at the dealership... they did their "complimentary inspection" and said my airmatic struts are leaking... funny since i went to another dealership about a week or two earlier to get the fuel filter changed out and they had no mention of my airmatic leaking with their "complimentary inspection" bs...

I find it hard to believe that a car with such low miles will have any airmatic issues..When i start the car i do hear the compressor working to rise the car, takes about 8-10 sec... sometimes when driving downhill and hit a red light i also hear and see the compressor rising and running for like 1-2 sec to raise the car.

Also, FYI.. i have not ever had a problem with the airmatic yet (knock on wood).. i only had one time driving like 20 mph i got car too low message for like 2 seconds (4 years ago) and it went back to normal.

I wanted to know...

1.) Is the dealership just lying to me about the airmatic repair and trying to make a buck off me?
2.) How much have you guys paid for the airmatic repair that have got it done at the dealership? They quoted me 930 initially, but after some aruging i negotiated down to 700ish and told them i would call em back if i wanted to do the repair. I dont know if this is a good price run with or try to negotiate some more. According to the SA, they can go any lower than 700ish parts and labor included.
3.) If i do the repair, i still have a chance of a leak happening elsewhere on the strut then have to pay for a a new unit 1.5k+... so am i better taking my chances and waiting til something breaks?
4.) have any of you had any problems with AFTER the strut repair kit for the top caps breaking off or cracking again?
5.) the epoxy is supposed to be applied to the top caps after the strut repair kit is installed right? there seems to be some conflicting info on this board as some people claim that the epoxy is not needed after the install, but some do??
6.) no i have not replaced the relay yet... using the older relay in the 2001 models.. i have not replaced to the new hella relay yet... i should replace this regardless right?


any help and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Skylaw

You said the dealer diagnosed leaks in the motor mounts - I presume you meant leaks in your airmatic struts.

To respond to your questions, assuming you have an airmatic problem:

1. The repair the dealer must have suggested, based on your subsequent questions, was to replace the upper seals on your front struts. You can see if you have a leak by spraying soapy water on the upper struts at the seals, and see if you get bubbling. That will confirm whether you have a leak, and whether the dealer has properly diagnosed your problem. You might also check out https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...ml#post3598449 for more info on troubleshooting airmatic.

2. I paid $550 for the replacement of both of my upper seals on my '00 S500, five years ago. That included parts & labor. Many folks report prices in the range of $500 - $650, with the main variable being labor. I think your dealer is charging too much.

3. To do the repair yourself you need a special tool; the forum has writeups from several folks who have done it, and who provide information on where to buy the tool. Look for "airmatic tool."

Arnott Industries has new and remanufactured airmatic struts that are constructed far better than the OE Bilsteins. The air bag is much heavier; the new struts are around $800, and remos are around $400. Check them out here http://www.benzworld.org/forums/arnott-inc/

Get your system properly diagnosed, and fix it. Putting off airmatic repairs will cause your pump to burn out, and full collapse - and add a huge amount to your total repair bill. Not something you want to happen on the highway.

4. I have not, but any pneumatic system can leak. There is no "permanent" fix - except that Arnott has a lifetime warranty on its parts, if you take that route. If you confirm that it is simply an upper seal leak, then just replace the upper seals (and yes, check your relay; if it is Siemens, replace it). You'll likely get another 8 years out of them (don't forget: the seals work full time, not just during the miles you drive. 8 years isn't bad).

5. The epoxy is a vibration damper to keep the thin neck of the brass valve from cracking and leaking. It is not a seal itself. The older W220s had no epoxy; newer ones did. Personally, I have it.

6. Check the relay. if Siemens, replace it with Hella. If Hella, leave it. https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...-failed-2.html

As for a question you didn't ask - The issue isn't the length of time it takes the car to rise, but rather, how much it settles and over what length of time. If it settles 1/2 inch or so after not being driven for a week, that's not bad. 8-10 seconds to complete the rising and leveling cycle is not bad for a 1/2 inch rise. If it settles 1/2 inch after being parked a short period, you have a leak.

If you're in an area where overnight temperatures vary a lot (cold mornings), you can expect the car to be lower overnight than it would be in more even temps - but it should not bottom out.

My car comes right back up after a stop sufficient to cause the nose to lower. It does not stay down and then rise slowly (1-2 seconds). That yours does indicates a probable leak.

Another thing you will notice when starting after being parked for several days is that the front will rise, then seem to lower again. That's not what is happening. Your leveling system will first raise the front, then the rear will catch up. The car is angled upward until the rear catches up; all that is happening is that the angle is returning to level as the rear reaches the proper height.

chetoc230

thanks for the monstorous reply skylaw.. i noticed i did make a typo in my original post.. i edited it just now so it reflects airmatic.. just so many problems with the car lately i lost my track of mind for a bit..

i'll test with some soap water later at home.. i have not done that yet. regardless it sounds like i should get the seals replaced anyways and get the relay swapped out.

i feel more comfortable with the dealership doing the job rather than an indy... i dont have a indy i feel comfortable with in the socal area yet..

i called the dealership and they said if i can provide proof of an invoice that someone got it done cheaper than what it was quoted, they'll price match it...

skylaw if you dont mind.. and if its not too much trouble.. can you dig up your old invoice and scan and send it over? at least with that i can bring that to thier attention and get it pricematched.

thanks again for your help!

2strokepwer

My front shocks had the seal kit done and they lasted 120,000 miles, then they were leaking from the bottom. To replace them I went with one from the dealer (1400.00) and one from arnott's (400 plus 100 for indy install). Now at 145,000 and both are working well. My car still and always sinks 1+ inches on cold nights.

chetoc230

it seems as if even with a repair at the top strut cap, there is still a chance that it may leak from the bottom requiring a full strut swap.

i guess i'll take my chances on a top cap repair kit for now.. if the strut goes out i'll then go with a arnott rebuild.

skylaw, can you help scan that invoice/receipt for me? it would be greatly appreciated!

Skylaw

I no longer have that car, and I passed along all repair invoices for it when I traded. Sorry. It was, however, a dealership that did the repair - Valley Mercedes on York Road in Cockeysville (Baltimore), MD. Service was done on 2/17/05; the bill was for "A" service ($354.72) and strut seal kits (both struts); total bill was $895.51, so the strut kit came to $540.79, tax and labor included. Data is from my bank records. No, I won't post those.

chetoc230

wow A service for 354? dealerships here in ca charge only 199.99 for A service.

Skylaw

I believe I also had them replace my wiper blades in addition to the "A" service (my check register doesn't have that detail) - that's about an extra $100. I note that for the "B" service that preceded the "A" service, my register note says wipers were not replaced.

chetoc230

ok just a quick update. went to dealership and got repair kit installed....

things to note:

1.) looked at caps.. they did not put the black resin/epoxy that was on my standard setup. according to multiple searches on the boards this is supposedly to keep the brass fitting from vibrating and breaking off... i complained to the SA at the dealership and she got the tech to come out to assure me that any repair kits done DO NOT require the black resin epoxy... and for every car they've done the repair kit on has not included the black resin in it.... to take it a step further.. i look at a buddy's S430 02 (i have a 01') and he got the car 2nd hand back in 2004 and has not had a airmatic problem yet and HAS NO BLACK RESIN (he's owned the car for 4 years and has 60k or so miles) my car has about 40k or so miles.... is it really necessary to have the black resin in? after searching the forums and reading people's review, its been mostly "speculation" from posters that that resin is necessary... any w220's out there with the repair kit installed DONT have the black resin filled in???

2.) My compressor is going on and off while driving... for a 60 minute drive,, about 24 miles to work in traffic i can hear the compressor (no radio on) going on and off sporadically... i counted maybe 13~15 times it went on with like 8~10 second spurts... is this normal for the compressor to be running? when i was talking to the tech.. he mentioned that the car (after going 50mph) will actually lower.. when at standstill or going slower, the compressor is going to run and raise the car back up.. i just find it kinda strange aftering hearing the the compressor run so much that maybe its running a bit too much??? could the relay be causing this?

3.) dealership did not replace relay.. should i really do this? its a simple diy that i can do but what makes the new hella relay better than the tyco relay other than the fact that the tyco relay would just blow out? i dont know much about electronics but do relay's have a built set of instructions on how to control the airmatic or something? someone please educate me.

Skylaw

As you mentioned, the resin was part of your "standard" setup. It came as OE on my '05, and was included in the replacement upper seal kits for my '00. It's not just speculation. MB includes it; and why a dealer wouldn't after a repair, except for taking shortcuts, I don't know.

With the compressor running that long and that often, I would check for additional leaks. They can occur at the valve block, in the lines, at the brass valves, in the accumulator, in the lower end of the struts, and in the rear struts.

The OE Siemens relay was a problem; it was prone to failure. The Hella relay was simply better quality and fails less often; MB has started using it now as OE. I know nothing about the Tyco relay.

chetoc230

i may have mixed up tyco with siemens.

with reference to the resin, i took a look again last night and there is some resin in there, its just not as filled up covering the brass unit. it seems as if the resin is just spread to the sides to prevent the metal cap from cracking.

one thing i didnt mention was that driving to work in the morning, the compressor went off once or twice... when the car started and when i started to exit off the freeway the car lifted itself back up within 4-5 seconds. temp around 35-45 F. there was barely any traffic on the freeways either.

driving home is a different story, and the airmatic compressor runs quite a bit like described before... but temps do change to 60-70... so im curious as if weather has to do anything with how the compressor and airmatic reacts or if its just because im in stop n go driving?

tusabes

great detailed reply, i am saving this

jb5

hi I have a 00 s500 , if i leave the car sitting for a few days its sitting on all four tires. when I start it up up it raises back up is this some type of electric problem or air leak, etc. can someone help me please. PS I'm also in live in MI.(cold weather)

Skylaw

When you say "sitting on all four tires" I take it to mean the car is fully down. Because it rises when you start, this tends to rule out a relay problem (however, doing this much work at every start will burn your pump out prematurely; also, if there is a leak, the pump is running excessively anyway). That the car rises also rules out a ride height sensor problem.

You most likely have a leak. Even with temperature variations and very cold weather, the car should not lower fully. See post #2 above.

While the leak can occur in a number of places, I would start with the upper front strut seals. If it's warm enough, spray some warm soapy water onto the tops of the strut mounts and see if it forms new bubbles. If so, that's your leak. There is a seal kit that should run approximately $500 - $550 parts and labor for both struts.

jb5

mr SKYLAW if theres a leak in one of the front struts can that potential leak cause the entire car to drop on all four tires? Is every wheel(air shock) location interconnected or is each wheel independent of each other, meaning if the front driver has a leak does only the front driver fail? And the rest of the car remains up.Or in my case the whole car drops could it possibly be the main line that supplys air to the entire system? Thanks for any kinda help this is my 1st benz and i'm tryin to get it together I will post pics as soon as I get it A1.

jb5

mr SKYLAW if theres a leak in one of the front struts can that potential leak cause the entire car to drop on all four tires? Is every wheel(air shock) location interconnected or is each wheel independent of each other, meaning if the front driver has a leak does only the front driver fail? And the rest of the car remains up.Or in my case the whole car drops could it possibly be the main line that supplys air to the entire system? Thanks for any kinda help this is my 1st benz and i'm tryin to get it together I will post pics as soon as I get it A1.

StephenK

From what I have heard in the past, delaying on fixing a leak will cause the pump to run more and more causing an eventual failure on the pump another not so cheap part to fix.

I recently had a knocking noise coming from the front left of my 01 S500 and eventually it was determined I had an internal strut failure, about the same time all of a sudden over night the car would sit on both rear wheels, when started everything raised and leveled out, I could here then pump running at different times. I figured with 126,000 miles never having a suspension issue it was time to take care of it, new left front strut and both rears, all is good again.

jb5

Mr skylaw I took ur advice and put soapy water on both struts, the passenger side didnt bubble up but the driver side did. Upon closer inspection of my car I noticed that the drivers(front and rear) side is only the side that actually drops all the way down on the ground, the pass. side drops, but not like the drivers side. So I can only assume that each side is responsible for itself? If thats the case the kit should solved this problem,right? Also theres a clicking sound coming from the device in the top left(words MOT and arrow) pic. Any help would be gratefully appreciated. THANKS.

Skylaw

There is a valve block that controls pressures in each of the front struts (which are independent of each other), and also to the two rear struts (which are not entirely independent of each other; they share the same ride height sensor). Without much doubt the leak in the front strut seal is depressurizing the system's reservoir, and once that happens there are probably pressure losses in other struts as they feed pressure back to the reservoir. However, it is impossible to determine over the internet all of the things that could be causing the symptoms you describe. That's why there are dealerships and certified independent technicians.

I cannot tell whether your system has additional leaks - but it is certain that you have at least one leaking upper strut seal - and it is leaking badly. I would advise you to have the entire system checked.

Mercedes also advises replacement of both upper strut seals when one fails. If you take a piecemeal approach to fixing the system, you will have the car in the shop more often, and wind up paying more for additional diagnostic and labor charges.

I cannot answer your question about the device making the clicking sound, or why it would be making the sound. I am sure your technician will be able to answer.

jb5

thanks SKYLAW