Folks,

I currently own a 2000 Infiniti q45. I absolutely love this car, and especially how little maintenance it requires. The parts may be expensive but I service it myself and the last 110k have cost me naught more than a battery and routine items.

At the time, I considered between the q and a 2001 s600. The cost of the maintaining the v12 scared me out of it.

Now, my car is wearing thin (180k) and requires about 4k worth of parts to bring to as-new condition. I'll probably only get 3-4k for her (if that, but it is PRISTINE).

I'm considering trading her in and picking up a 2002 s500 that a guy I know has on his lot.

I really have been one of the "stay away from german cars due to silly services and expensive parts" people all my life, always owning japanese or inexpensive to fix American.

I think the price is about 13-14. I'm really unsure as to how good of a choice this car is. I want a "big brother" to my Q - the S seems to be a perfect fit.

What should I look for? I am a very competent shadetree mechanic that is not scared to learn and get dirty.

The only reason I can own nicer used cars than my friends is because I can afford to fix them myself, offsetting the high parts cost. If this is too high, as a young father I need to be reasonable and slowly put that same money into my Q, which will probably run for another 150k if I needed her to.

Any input is highly valuable and thanks for the read!

 

GO TO THE S-CLASS OWNERS START HERE FORUM THREAD STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks for the reply.

I did browse through the topic, however it seems to be organized along the lines of frequent services.

Problem for me is the specificity of the services listed are already alien to me.

Every car has their nuances, such as the fgy33 q45's tendency to have bad coilpacks, or for the A/C compressor to fail at 170k without lubrication, or for earlier q45's and their plastic chain guides. It seems that thread is a great resource for people who own the car and are having problems, but doesn't seem too helpful for those clueless to the car or it's subtleties.

I understand suspension (depending on equipment) can be a nightmare with s500's.

I don't really trust the guy I'm buying the car from, but I trust my analysis if I know what to look for. That topic leaves me fairly clueless.

Does anyone have any real-world reliability for the long term for a similar car? w140 s500 over 100k?

For instance, I can tell you the fgy33 q45 is a bulletproof car. Very few things fail when fluids are changed and pads are good. A car I would recommend to anyone concerned with parts cost.

On the other hand, I would not recommend an infiniti j30, as the transmissions are weak and will fail prematurely. The seats also crack and age quickly.

 

To summarize, the most common and expensive issues with the S Class is Airmatic and ABC(Active Body Control). Depending on the model year you buy, the car will be equipped with either unit, not both. Both features are designed to keep the suspension geometry in check depending on load and turning.

Owners have reported costs of $3.5K to $11K depending how extensive the damage was on their ABC systems. Some owners who mechanically capable have been do this at a fraction of cost.

These cars require a Service A and B. Both are mostly oil and filter change, dealers charge $200-400 but you can do it yourself at $50 or so. The service interval is approximately every 10K miles. Spark Plug changes every 100K miles.

Bottom line is that, these cars are rather expensive to maintain if anything goes wrong with them and an extended warranty is highly recommended.

If you have any specific questions, please ask, people here are generally very helpful but it is difficult to answer a general question.

Good luck with your new car purchase.

 

Thanks so much for the info!

That's just it - not sure if there will be a new car purchase! If I can justify it financially, then so be it.

I am not afraid of doing any of this work myself, I have most tools from valve adjusters to spring clamps and everything in between, and surely have the desire to learn a new car (manufacturer!).

http://www.autofind.com/dealer/detai...G75J3YA057261/

Not sure if I'll get THIS one, looking closer. 109k miles on it for $15k. My car is $0k with 180k. Can't quite justify that one. However, one in better condition or at a lower price is in the running.

I'm also somewhat torn, worrying about regretting the s500 instead of the s600. Aside from 1/2 more engine to maintain, is the vehicle otherwise the same? I.e., no "rare" or "exotic" system on the s600 that would break the bank? From Hondas to my Q45, I perform all of my own services.

I am not scared of maintaining a v12 by mysel or the costs involved, but don't want to sign onto a car with a part that will cost $3k that I could avoid with an s500.

 

you really have to ask yourself why you want to own the MB flagship,if it is truly in your blood to own/drive "IMO" the best german luxury car on the road than you might survive ownership outside warranty.these cars are super reliable,safe and perform beautifully for their intended design.you must have $ to burn to drive the S500 and have a personal assistant that manages the ownership of your S600.im not kidding at all,when it comes to a major repair it will cost you thousands every time.this forum is as important to owning one of these cars as the fobs used to start them.

 

I love cars. I love everything about them; their construction, design, engineering, and maintenance. My Q45 after 115k miles is cleaner than it was when I got it - the door jambs, inside of wheel wells, engine block. I am borderline obsessive with exactness, and what better place to find it than in a high-end German automobile. I appreciate all my Q45 for what it is, but now I want something slightly nicer and faster.

The parts cost is my concern; labor will be free or hopefully rare.

For instance, when you say engine repair, on my Q it's about $700 for a dealer to replace your knock sensors. The KS's are about a hundred each, which is good money saved when done yourself.

Those coilpacks fail frequently or something?

 

YOU CANNOT service many of the things DIY on an s500 and even less on an s600. Do you have a $10,000 Star Diagnostics computer, which is essential? Most benz problems are electronic in nature.

Plugs and coils on a v12 is a 4 figure job just in parts. As many have said, you really dont want a 600 if it doesnt have an extended warranty. the FIRST repair will more than pay for a warranty cost.

The Airmatic is much cheaper to fix/service than the ABC, but parts alone (not labor) will run $1000+ for Airmatic rebuild and $3k++++ for ABC.

 

That car has no carpet and no cooled seats as well as no sport package and the Year 2000 is the most problematic.

 

Again thanks for your input. These costs aren't that out of whack - the adjustable shocks on my q45 are $370/each, and even though it is 8 cylinders instead of 12, plugs and coils will run you well over a thousand.

I say this because these are all things I have to do to my Q now (some for a second time).

I am not accustomed to maintaining a 4 cylinder civic, so hopefully it won't be TOO much of a stretch.

 

That's a gem too, thanks. Why is it "problematic?" Are you referring to the suspension systems listed above? What year might you say is the least problematic?

 

Rule #1: A cheap Mercedes is the most expensive purchase you'll ever make.

Since you're getting a feeler for the W220 I'd say the newer vehicle you can get the better, not only because it is newer (duh!) but because reliability sharpened up on these cars throughout the life of the model and also there was a facelift in 2003. Better COMAND system and some subtle bodystyle changes.

The prices of these vehicles have dropped so precipitously it isn't much extra $$$ outlay to step up from a bad, early W220 (like the one you linked up thread) to one that might serve you well for some time to come, a 2004 or newer. $15k for a bare bones 2000 S500 w/100,000+ miles on it is ridiculous! My father sold his '00 S500 for not much more than that 7 YEARS AGO!!

Nice into for someone who isn't familiar with the W220

The early V12s that went in the 2000-2002 models aren't known for their reliability. Also in 2003 they went from NA 6.0 litre to twin turbo 5.5 litre with a step up of above about 130bhp and 200lb/ft torque in the process.

If you want a 600 getting a 2003 or newer is a no brainer. For me a decent warranty was a must, I got a Chrysler 5yrs/70,000 miles warranty on my S600 for $3220 a few months back. I'm sure that will pay for itself during my tenure and the piece of mind alone makes it a great buy.

Electrical issues. Also 2000 was the first batch of the W220s to hit the US and are the least reliable. My father had one and junked it, he hasn't owned a Mercedes since on the basis of that.

 

sounds like you are ready,$35k will get you a beautiful S 500.$45k will get you a beautiful S600.and there will quite likely be some factory warranty remaining on them.buying these cars is pure joy,if you have any feeling of hesitance than you are buying to much car.your first MB "S" should have a warranty so you can experience how well the dealer will take care of you,buy the car at a local dealer so when you bring it back to them for a problem they are more likely to vip you.

 

I think he is looking at something less than half those prices

 

Yeah, I'm not quite in the realm of 2nd owner. I'm looking at being a 3rd owner. I can live with it a few years older, or with a few more miles.

An s500 is probably a better idea, just for initial cost.

As I said, perhaps this isn't the right time for me. I'm damn near certain it's the right car, but perhaps not the right time. If the basic only way that I can guaranteed have a good time with this car is to spend at least 30k, then it's probably not a great idea. If I can find one from 15-22, then I'd consider it.

I realize that's cheap, but I also realize they do exist at that price point for 3rd owners around 100k.

Thanks for your help folks very good to hear from actual owners.

 

I'm sure you could get a tidy 2003/2004 S500 for around $20,000.

You've just got to get a pre-purchase inspection done, preferably at a Mercedes dealer since they'll be most familiar with Airmatic and ABC which are the big $$$ items on these cars if they go wrong.

I don't know if this link will work but on cars.com there are currently 37 S500s from 2003-2006 between $15,000 and $20,000. Hell, there's even a 200 S600 w/69,000 miles for $18,000

http://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchr...MENT&pgId=2102

 

if you are determined to have your S500 than im sure you can buy a great 3rd party car in the current luxury market.by from a private party and as the other thread advised get a pre purchase insp.my 03 s500 has 61k miles and is mint condition.id be lucky to get $20k for it in this market.you are in a good position to buy and this forum can overcome just about any problem that arises.there is a strong possibility that you could find a jewel of a car that turns out to be more reliable than your lexus.go to a dealer and test drive a few of them and see if it inspires you to buy one or decide to put the money back into your lexus.

 

He has a 2000 Infiniti Q45 with 180k miles, not a Lexus.

IMO I would not put any money into the Q. If anything, he could sell his current Q, then get a lowmileage replacement one for just a few K more if he doesnt get the benz

 

You know, I hadn't even THOUGHT of that!?!

Sadly, I get that all the time about my Q - What kind of car is that, a Lexus? I prefer Infiniti to Lexus, especially from a serviceability standpoint.

I have to say, this may not be an s500, but it was intended to directly compete with it and does have a 300hp RWD V8. It was sold for over $50k. It truly is an underappreciated car! Treated me well and I'd buy one again, if they new ones weren't so ugly.

That cars.com link is enticing though - definitely think I might go test drive one next week.

Thanks again for the input folks.

 

Well I just purchased a 2004 S500 4matic 68k miles for 20,000.00. Got 5000.00 for my 05 buick lacross which has 122k on it.

Getting the car tomorrow..

 

Jack, I will give you my opinion on the S class, I have owned an S class since 2002.
The Engine and transmission is pretty bulletproof as long as the services are performed.
On the Engine the CPS (Crank and Cam position sensor) One sits in front of engine the other sits in back before the transmission, its is an easy fix.
As other posters eluded it is the airmatic that fails, but with all the information here and Arnott's it is possible as a DIY and if you don't have star diag you can bring it to dealer or other options.
I have had virtually no problem with mine for 9 years and 108K miles, I did have to replace the airmatic relay (another cheap item). I never even did the top seal for my airmatic shocks I used some sealing fluid. At 108K miles my S430 still ran like the day I bought it, unfortunately it was totalled. Brakes/rotors are quite easy. Never replaced an engine or transmission mount. Alternator failed once covered by recall. I felt like my S430 could go another 100K miles. The materials that MB uses for Interiors hold up very well. I loved my S so much that when it was totalled I replaced it with another S but this time it had ABC.
Even with 2 of my cars having ABC I have been very fortunate ..knock on wood. I am also one of those people that immediately takes care of minor issues before they turn major. I only buy the correct fluid.
All in all I have had little issues not just with My S but also on my SL and ML.
One thing you can never get from another car is the smile you get and the secure feeling when you are driving an S class. Good luck and get it..we only live once and the experience you get from it is up to you. Just make sure you really check it out and don't rush. There is always a good deal if you look.

 

I have a 2000 S430. The car is in great shape, has 108k on it too. I bought the car for a great price with a clean title and no service history. I called the dealer to ask them a couple questions only to find out the car has a huge history from the dealer reguarding repairs. It seems this car has been very well taken care of. Last week I put it on the lift because the service advisor told me the Airmatic system and suspension had been replaced for something like 6 or 8 grand.. once on the lift I could tell the whole suspension is brand new.. arms, bushings, struts, balljoints, etc.. I had a very big smile on my face.. I think it all depends on the vehicle you buy. Alot of people will say the early years were bad, but you have to understand something.. The parts have gotten better over the years, so as long as the parts replaced on the early year model have been from the new parts then you should be in just as good condition as a newer year model..