MRAMG1

Okay guys:

A long story short as I had no intention of trying to drive a 4500 pound tank on the track, but I was heckled into it.

Anyway, straight away speeds were incredible, thanks Eurocharged

I even passed 1 GT3 Porsche, who was not very happy.

However, and this is a BIG however, the brakes faded after only 4 laps

This was with aftermarket pads front and rear, so be VERY careful my friends.

One interesting note, the power steering rack was VERY vague going through transitions. It wasn't the pump keeping up, as it felt more like the rack

Anyway, YES it was fun and had some media pics as they really loved a big boat going around the track. Just be for warned that these tanks have MANY limitations. Guess I need to look at an S65 next

One last note, as this wasn't an official lapping day, I took an old friend out with me. He weighs in at around 300, plus my deuce so 5000 pounds into turn one didn't allow the brakes much time to cool, ha, ha.

Again, still ALOT of fun

Gondon

Cool, Where are the pics?

tusabes

changing the brake fluid to ATE super blue (assuming its compatible) might help a lot with the fade issue.

One of the major magazines just did a story on a Nissan 370z that had quick brake fade problems, and the fluid boiling was a big problem and the ATE fluid helped.

Arnee

Yes on the fluid. Fluids and pads should be minimum. Not the "dust free" pads either. Pagids or PFC pads would do.

Plus, an S65 won't do the trick. It's still putting more hp on a pig. I had the same issue with my W211 E55. It can never be good at both at either being a "sports car" or quiet, comfortable grand tourer.

Same with the M5, same with the M6, etc. etc.

You're better off getting a dedicated "sports car" than trying to have an all-in-one solution.

MRAMG1

I DID have a dedicated track car. Matter of fact two. Now that my second son is here, eveil wife made me get rid of them.

Okay, truth of the matter, I love my kids more than the track. I'll let them win the next big race as daddy is too old. God that hurts to admit it.

By the way, I'll take an S600 or S65 over ANY BMW anyday. Just my opinion, but torque rules. YES BOTH BMW's are better track cars, but for a daily driver

Again, IMHO.

Arnee

Even the M5 or M6 BMWs are not sufficient dedicated track cars, that was my point. You'd have to get into Porsche to have a dedicated track car with capabilities.

I agree with the kids though. I love our first more than the track. I might end up getting rid of my 996 (though it's not a dedicated track car) and get something the whole family can enjoy......like a dedicated theater room.

MB_Fahrer

+1,000,000! Drove a 996 GT3rs around the Nurburgring last summer, and it completely blew me away! I was getting (average) 7:42 laptimes (keep in mind a Ferrari Enzo only does it roughly twenty seconds faster). My dad shipped over his E60 M5 (yeah again) so I could throw it around the track too. The first two times I drove our M5 on the Nurburgring it was completely stock, and unless I was careful I would burn up the brakes within the first half of the track (which is predominantly downhill). Now that the M5 has been set up a bit more properly though (some of the mods include Brembo 6 pot's, upgraded throttle bodies, cams, a full exhaust system, ECU chip, etc, etc) the car was much better. Yes, it still feels like the 4,000lb sedan that it is, but the difference was mind boggling! If I were you, I'd do a Renntech brake package on any S-class you were serious about tracking. Not necessarily the most expensive but at least as big as the brakes on the S65 (15.4in front and 14.x rears? with 8 pistons and 6 pistons respectively). Also, my E36 racecar (a 1993 325is that at the time had its interior fully stripped out, a full roll cage, 17x9 wheels running 255's on all four corners, a Carbonio intake, a 3in race exhaust built by Active Autowerke, an ECU chip that basically removed the rpm limiter, and much much more. At the time I was pushing 203 wheel hp, and 199 wheel tq at 5000ft elevation and it weighed right about 2600lbs)..... anyway I took it down to High Plains Raceway, near Denver, and I completely destroyed the brakes. I was running race compound pads (with race brake fluid) slotted rotors all around, and by the end of the day (roughly 4 hours on track with several cool off periods) the rotors were so hot they almost caught on fire. When I removed them the next day, I had about two fingernail widths of pad left, and the rotors had turned a cold, steel-blue color In other words, Upgraded pads, rotors, and fluids (if pushed hard) will not do jack-$h!t for you. So buy bigger brakes and save yourself the headache I've had to go through As of now, my BMW is running on 335mm front rotors and 332 rears with 4 pistons and 2 pistons. Unfortunately, I have not been out to the track recently because I was in the process of installing an Active Autowerke's supercharger on it, and then I decided I needed to install a Rieger widebody at the same time (as well as repaint my entire care)... Long story short, bigger the brakes the better

tusabes

please note I did not say that changing the brake fluid is all thats needed to make the car track ready, all it will do is help prolong the fade point.

In the recent article I mentioned, a 370z was boiling its fluid after 7 laps. With ATE Super Blue, and a different compound pad, the fade point increased to something like 30 laps. Thats a huge difference, for a small cash outlay.

A simple fluid and pad change would certainly help OP get more than 4 laps before fade sets in, and should be the first change....but (of course) just pads and fluid upgrade would not be sufficient for something like a 4 hour event mentioned above

MRAMG1

Without questioning the 370z, aka different car, weight, brake size, entrance speed, driving style, etc, etc.

I can assure you that one could use ANY brand pad, aka I did mention that I already had aftermarket pads, ANY fluid, and the results would be VERY similar.

There is simply too much weight for the stock size rotor to reject in heat when entering a corner.

Even with the hardest pad, Kevlar or carbon, and the best fluid, dot 5, Motul, etc. This car would still fade VERY quickly when driven at the limits my friend. It's simple physics at work here, that say you just can't do it.

Thanks for the tip anyway my friend

Gondon

So any pictures?

tusabes

Without actually trying it, its mere speculation. Its very cheap to put in some good fluid before the next time youre out again (and fluid should be changed after most races anyway). try the super blue, motul etc and see whether you get more than 4 laps and report back.

MRAMG1

Without trying to sound pompous my friend. I have road raced for over two decades now in many cars and have tried just about everything under the sun.

I know what good brake fluid can and can not do. The swept area on the S600 brakes is simply too small to diminish the heat that is generated, aka 125 down to 60 in turn 1, and 130 down to 50 in turn 10 at Beaverun. The fluid would NOT change things. Again, physics are against you here.

Sorry, but I know better than to change the fluid and think a miracle would happen on this 4500lb car.

For my stang, when the brakes were stock back in the early 90's, YES it did help a little. Again, no where near the extra 20 laps as with the 370z, but it was good for a few at Nelson ledges.

Try it on your own, and you will see what I am talking about. AKA, don't believe everything you read.