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Well I thought so for normal driving. I don't really toss this car around as I do my Porsche. I just had brake service performed, pads changed, lines bled and the car really stops on a dime. I do not know about the fade as I don't really hammer it too much.
I already have a tune waiting for the car, so perhaps when I finally load it I may feel a need for more stopping power. But the car is already stupid fast, so handling alone prevents me from trying to test out its limits.
Yea. Accident. Thanks for your help on that. Now just gotta find the best deal. So far I found sl55 full front and rear calipers and rotors/pads for $1.4k shipped. Think I can get better than that?
Yea. Accident. Thanks for your help on that. Now just gotta find the best deal. So far I found sl55 full front and rear calipers and rotors/pads for $1.4k shipped. Think I can get better than that?
I have 03 CL brakes on my S and for the front you will need to change the knuckle out and the rear will need a little mod to fit
Could the holes on the standard front spindles be slightly bored out to fit the AMG caliper bolts?
Safety is a concern of course so the difference in bolt size is what I am taking into consideration. If it were small enough I would look into it further because from what I've seen each spindle is $250-$350 used and labor looks intensive.
IMHO, you will be much happier with spending a your money 'bullet-proofing' the 'hot area' hoses and pump pulsation dampener hose on the ABC system.
You can achieve more aggressive street braking performance with higher friction brake pads. Going heavy duty AMG brakes WILL add substantial fade resistance (at very high cost) but the significantly higher 'unsprung weight' may screw-up the velvet ride on fast small bumps. Of course ultimate braking performance comes down to tire compounds and tire air pressure. Quickly reducing vehicle speed is ruled by Thermodynamics----one must convert kinetic energy (velocity * mass) into BTU's (heat). Almost all that energy transformation takes place at the friction surfaces of the rotors and brake pads. Now what can you do with all that unwanted heat? It ultimately must be transferred to the ambient air. Ideally, one wants to keep the heat out of the brake pads, brake fluid, and brake caliper seals and in the brake rotors for conduction to the fast moving air.
Higher unsprung weight in the brake rotor and calipers do not increase the rate at which kinetic energy is turned into heat in the friction zone, which is very fast compared to how relatively slowly it will be conducted throughout the rotor, caliper, and hub assemblies and into the ambient air.. For single stops--either from say 40 MPH or 140 MPH, the times are much to brief for much heat to be transferred to ambient air. Vented rotors, drilled and slotted rotors simply can not do much heat transfer to air in the very few seconds during the stop. Dissipating the stopping heat takes time.
Unless you are planning to drive down long long steeply sloping downgrades loaded to max weight, 'fade resistance' should not be of any concern with the stock S-600 brakes and OEM pads. Even that is easily managed with higher heat resistance brake pads. One can also easily add 'clothes dryer exhaust ducts from through the front bumper directing the high pressure/fast velocity air onto the front calipers and rotors.
IMHO, you will be much happier with spending a your money 'bullet-proofing' the 'hot area' hoses and pump pulsation dampener hose on the ABC system.
You can achieve more aggressive street braking performance with higher friction brake pads. Going heavy duty AMG brakes WILL add substantial fade resistance (at very high cost) but the significantly higher 'unsprung weight' may screw-up the velvet ride on fast small bumps. Of course ultimate braking performance comes down to tire compounds and tire air pressure. Quickly reducing vehicle speed is ruled by Thermodynamics----one must convert kinetic energy (velocity * mass) into BTU's (heat). Almost all that energy transformation takes place at the friction surfaces of the rotors and brake pads. Now what can you do with all that unwanted heat? It ultimately must be transferred to the ambient air. Ideally, one wants to keep the heat out of the brake pads, brake fluid, and brake caliper seals and in the brake rotors for conduction to the fast moving air.
Higher unsprung weight in the brake rotor and calipers do not increase the rate at which kinetic energy is turned into heat in the friction zone, which is very fast compared to how relatively slowly it will be conducted throughout the rotor, caliper, and hub assemblies and into the ambient air.. For single stops--either from say 40 MPH or 140 MPH, the times are much to brief for much heat to be transferred to ambient air. Vented rotors, drilled and slotted rotors simply can not do much heat transfer to air in the very few seconds during the stop. Dissipating the stopping heat takes time.
Unless you are planning to drive down long long steeply sloping downgrades loaded to max weight, 'fade resistance' should not be of any concern with the stock S-600 brakes and OEM pads. Even that is easily managed with higher heat resistance brake pads. One can also easily add 'clothes dryer exhaust ducts from through the front bumper directing the high pressure/fast velocity air onto the front calipers and rotors.
i guarantee not only is a 390mm rotor going to look better than the early s500/s600 setup, but it will perform better
i returned the kit because the rear calipers from 216/221 is NOT a direct fit on the 215/220 like the front
so i got a set of used front calipers and rotors instead, about $580 altogether. that's hardly a lot of money, these parts are going for $1200+ on ebay sometimes. and are considerably cheaper than any other big brake upgrade out there. eventually somebody will want to buy my old calipers for maybe $150-250 as the OEM are decent brembo 4 piston brakes...i needed new rotors anyways so this was a no-brainer
Today I confirmed that with minimal effort, it’s possible to fit 221/216 amg brakes onto the w220/215
Good work.
Did you fit the discs as well? I believe the 221 has a lower disc height.
I fitted 390mm discs to my W220 S600 with 8 pots, and the improved braking was WONDERFUL, whatever the flawed theories may be. The stock brakes aren't as good as they look IMHO, and I'm not the first to say that.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; 09-23-2019 at 08:51 AM.
So is the solution to buy just the front from a amg w221/w216 and leave the rear stock? The front do most of the work anyway but I’m wondering about brake balance issues front to rear ?
yes the w216 rotors are more shallow than the w215 rotors from what I understand
i used autobrakecenter.com for reference on rotor dimensions, incredibly helpful because they show all dimensions, including height(some people call this offset) and not just the diameter
so I ordered some 2008 CL63 front rotors, this is where this project can get tricky, because it’s not easy to find these rotors for a good price. I lucked out and found a pair for about $280 shipped
among my research I found the new Benz GLE also has a 390mm rotor but The car is so new that I cannot find extra info on the offset/height numbers
215/220 front rotors, amg My current rotors , non amg front rotors for 215/220 early years (not sure about later years) This is the w216/221 amg front rotor Fitment with 20” wheels, I’m not even sure 19” wheels would work with these massive calipers Just the caliper on my 2002 cl500 front spindle
Last edited by ctravis595; 09-23-2019 at 07:07 PM.
@ctravis595 , what mods, if any, did you have to do to the front to get these to fit? Seems pretty cool that you made this work.
To get the front calipers to fit you’ll need to just barely drill out the mounting ears on the spindle, much like the process for the non amg to amg swap
youll also need to slightly trim back the dust shield for the bigger caliper to fit, if you zoom in on my photo of the dry fitment of the new front caliper, you can see where I temporarily bent the dust shield
regarding brake balance, I wished the w216/221 rears would bolt right up but they don’t. Luckily I have already upgraded from 2002 cl500 rear calipers and rotors up to the slightly bigger 2002 cl55 rear caliper and rotor
this 2002 cl55 rear brake upgrade is a very similar caliper but with a larger rotor, at first I didn’t understand how this was any better besides the appearance of larger rotors. However my friend pointed out that the larger rotor and further offset caliper provides more leverage
so this has got me thinking
if I do encounter brake bias imbalance, I can first try to offset this with a different brake pad compound with more grip.
If this doesnt satisfy me, I can further follow the “leverage” theory , upgrade to bigger rotors in the rear and build custom brackets that further offset my rear calipers, following in the exact logic as what they did to upgrade the rear brakes on 220/215 back in years 2000-2002
09-25-2011, 02:20 PM
on my toy even before my tune. Stopping power IS just as important as Go power, IMHO.
