iansilv

Hello everyone,

I am looking to pick up a W220 S class in the next 60 days, and I am looking at '03 to '06 S500s or S600s. I need the car to be a daily driver and get me from home to office and back for probably two years. I am not afraid of maintenance or repairs, but I am afraid of being stranded without warning...

I have been reading these forums and as near as I can tell the biggest issue is the Active Body Control going out on the S600s and the Airmatic going out on the S500s...

It looks like the Airmatic is a cheaper but more frequent repair and Arnott Industries makes a replacement that is superior to what came on the car. Or, you can use their non-airmatic struts and just remove the airmatic system all together for a ride that is pretty close to the airmatic ride without the reliability problems.

It seems that the Active body Control does not go out as frequently but when it does it goes hard... and it turns in to a fishing expedition to track down the specific part that is bad. Later on, the other parts tend to fail in rapid succession meaning that little bit of money saved on not replacing the entire system in the first place either gets eaten up by actual repair cost within months or frustration with having the vehicle in the shop multiple times...

I love the leather of the S600. A good friend of mine was talking about the brochure for it when it came out over a decade ago and how nice the leather is on the dash. I want the S600 ideally because of the extra leather and the soundproofing- it's that quality feel I am craving. Extra performance, the ABC- not really that important to me. I am sure I will enjoy them but the biggest thing pushing me to get an S600 is the interior quality.

However, it seems like the S500 from '03 to '06 is a more reliable car overall and the airmatic replacement through Arnott is around $3,000 all in.

So my questions here are the following:

1. Am I off in my assessments and is there anything anyone wants to add here?

2. My goal is to spend as little as possible initially and pick up a car with 60K to 90K on the odometer. What major maintenance issues can I expect right off the bat?

3. If the ABC has been replaced, is it a mileage issue as to when it dies again? I would like to have this car for about two years and would prefer one Airmatic or ABC replacement in that time.

4. Same thing with the Airmatic- does it gradually wear out and die or is it a sudden failure type thing?

5. Am I correct in saying it is the '03 to 06 years that are solid, or are their other improvements between those years that make the '06 much better than the '03 for example, meaning it would be better to get an '06 with 95K miles on it over an '03 with 60K...

Any other things anyone wants to add?

Thank you for contributions to my buying research in advance.

ibeforreal

Good luck in your hunting. Another thing you might want to ask the previous owner is if the gear shift has been replaced. These cars are notorious for the "stuck in park" problem. Lots of information in the forums about that problem.

Also, the front ball joints have a propensity to go bad. Might want to check on that one also. Another problems (probably the easiest to fix) is the crankshaft position sensor (CPS). That is one problem that can leave you out in the middle of the mall parking lot after a late night movie if it goes out on you. Very easy to fix and you can find the part for less than $100.

These cars are a lot of fun to drive and great to own but when they break, things can get expensive really fast especially if you have to go to a dealer. If you have a good independent shop in your area you are much better off using them for any kind of service. I'm sure others will respond to your request. Best of luck to you.

Fraser

I'm looking at selling my 2004 S600, has 91,000 on the clock and a new ABC pump in December. It's also got the Maximum Care Chrysler warranty through December 2014 which covers all ABC issues.

I'm in the Mid Atlantic area if you're interested. This was my ad from a few weeks ago, I went away for three weeks so haven't tried much to sell it since besides putting this ad up.

https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...12-2014-a.html

marktan

There is no airmatic option for the S600 that I'm aware of, just ABC. I have an '05 S600 (ABC) and an '04 E500 (airmatic) so I can speak on both. They are both costly to repair if something goes bad (and I've seen just as many airmatic as ABC issues), end of story. On a side note, the leather interior of the S600 has no equal that I have seen.

As far as suspensions, I absolutely **LOVE** the ABC system and how it makes such a large vehicle handle. I'd go for this option in the future with no hesitation. I've got just over 110k on my S600. Original ABC pump (knock on wood) is good. I did have a high pressure hydraulic hose burst around 85k miles. Dropped the car to the ground. Got the hose and fluid from the dealer and had my indy shop install it. The cost of the special pentosin hydraulic fluid cost more than the hose or the labor to install it.

Brilliant vehicles when they are running properly, but don't purchase either thinking that maintaining it will be inexpensive. Mine have their own "personalities" (issues), but the 500 has been *relatively* problem free (it was giving me airmatic warnings after a super heavy snowfall, but then dissapeared the next day never to come back). The 600 is a whole other experience in general. If you search the forum, Oxygen, Howard, Keith, Paul (when he had his), and I, among others, can all personally attest to the expense of maintaining the S600. $$$$$

haoz129

+1 and here I am.

Brilliant car, my daily driver, love ABC absolutely.
The most important: she makes me smile, from deep inside, everytime sit behind the wheel, feel so relax especially after a tired day.

Need more information about purchasing, check the post in my signature about my advanture.
If you maintain the car, save a lot. Want save more, see the post in my signature about maintenance.

Thanks.

Howard

vmystikilv

1. Am I off in my assessments and is there anything anyone wants to add here?

-On the S600, The coil pack is a something to look out for, Another ouch on the wallet.

2. My goal is to spend as little as possible initially and pick up a car with 60K to 90K on the odometer. What major maintenance issues can I expect right off the bat?

-Stuck in park, control arms, airmatic repair somewhere, & at that mileage and if it hasn't already been done do a transmission flush

3. If the ABC has been replaced, is it a mileage issue as to when it dies again? I would like to have this car for about two years and would prefer one Airmatic or ABC replacement in that time.

- I have had mostly airmatic problems. my father had a cl500 with abc. All my airmatic issues in all cars don't add up to one ABC issue he had. Also, there is no convert kit of ABC, only airmatic.

4. Same thing with the Airmatic- does it gradually wear out and die or is it a sudden failure type thing?

- Both eventually at some point will wear. Airmatic more but less cost , ABC less failure but 4x the repair when it does. Personally, after experiencing both I choose Airmatic. even when it fails its still drivable just uncomfortable and easy to diagnose and fix usually.

5. Am I correct in saying it is the '03 to 06 years that are solid, or are their other improvements between those years that make the '06 much better than the '03 for example, meaning it would be better to get an '06 with 95K miles on it over an '03 with 60K...

- I would pick whichever has the best maintenance and repair history, and whichever has the Sport package

Personally I would pick the 500 as coil packs are cheaper and maintenance is cheaper in general. especially if this is going to be an everyday car. An 06 500 with airmatic & with the sport package would be what I would buy today if given a everyday car choice. Just my .02

haoz129

Absolutely right.

If the op want cheaper then avoid S600.

But I see he DIY, so there is a chance he could take advantage owning the best car in a reasonable expense.
Not cheap for sure, a challenge, yes.

Read and do home work, then it will be fine.
Regular stuff: check Carfx, check maintenance records, have MB inspection...

Howard

S600Keith

And here I am with the +2.

Both the S500 and S600 are fraught with issues. Yes, the S600 is likely to be more expensive to maintain. However, if you are a DIYer you can get the stuff done at 1/4 of what you will be charged at an indy or 1/8 of the MB prices. The difference between the 500 and 600 is exponential. Yes the 500 is a great car but the 600 is sooooo much more in every way. The contrast is amazing between the two. If you want to really stand apart and are only planning on using it as a daily driver for 2-3 years you will not regret any of the expense of the 600. It is truly a delight. However, I doubt you will be disappointed with either one.


Keith

Welwynnick

Hi Ian and welcome to MBWorld. I think you’ll see a lot of discussion on this. There’s a bottomless pit of information to support you, and I’d start with Howard’s two threads on his S600 experience. I’ve owned four W220’s: V8 & V12, Airmatic & ABC, N/A & BiTurbo, and have a few comparative observations. If you’re looking at 03-06 cars, then the S600 is a BiTurbo, which is a different proposition to the naturally aspirated 99-02 cars (which aren’t SO different from the S500). The BiTurbo is in another league, and it’s hard to think of anything with the same breadth of talent and capability that’s remotely as affordable to buy and run, and feasible as a daily driver.

The Turbos and ABC put the S600 on another plane and when I alternated driving my S500 and S600 down the same roads to work on successive days, the differences are so clear. Airmatic cars work well, but they use stiff anti-roll bars to control the body. It still rolls in corners, but the car also rocks from side to side over bumps. ABC cars don’t have anti-roll bars, and they don’t do either. It’s not perfect, but it’s a magic carpet for both ride and handling compared to any conventional suspension.

Of course, you could get an S500 with LWB, ABC, TV, 18’s, phone, exclusive leather, rear aircon, Distronic and all the things you tend to get with S600’s, and that would make a lot of sense. But I doubt that you’d choose to do that if you drove both. S600’s are available for reasonable prices, and the experience of many here is that they’re a manageable proposition. Mine is hardly any more expensive to run than my S500. Fuel consumption when cruising is similar, and mine has just had tyres, brakes and a dealer service, and that cost hardly any more than the V8.

I’ve had a few ABC problems for the first time, but then my car has done 154,000 miles. My conclusion is you don’t simply have to throw money at dealers to maintain ABC, but you do need to do more preventative maintenance. Notwithstanding Mercedes maintenance schedules, ALL fluids and filters MUST be changed at regular intervals; same for engine, transmission, steering, suspension & brakes, in fact. You also have to get all the plastic covers off every year and check for wear, corrosion and leaks. You have to keep on top of all that, and not just wait for something to go wrong. When things do go wrong, there are many spares and repairs options, and (apart from the ABC pump & engine mounts) are straightforward to replace. You may need to budget $2000 to replace the original coil packs, but otherwise it’s not unlike driving a turbine-powered flying carpet to work every day.

Regards, Nick

vmystikilv

$2000 for coil pack?!?!?! Every time I read that im just freaked out.

DarthVader2

The good news is that's for both coil packs...The bad news is that doesn't include the ignition transformer which is another $700-$900!!!

vmystikilv

haoz129

No free lunch, hmm, the joy comes with a price.
Sooner or later, everyone buy the ticket to join, the offically called, V12PackClub,

vmystikilv

S500 is now the poor mans 600. I'm going to go drive my ML for awhile so when I get back in my S I'll appreciate it again , lol

Welwynnick

In fairness, while the ABC pump and the coil packs probably have to be replaced on every V12 at some point in its life, I think a typical owner would be unlucky to catch all three. Mine already had the pump and ONE coil pack replaced; I simply had to do the other one, and I doubt that's untypical. Its worth checking whether a car has the old or new parts. Firstly, the new parts are supposed to be better and more reliable, and secondly, a new part shows that the old one has already been replaced! IIRC, the old part numbers are:

A 275 150 05 80
A 275 150 06 80

And the new part numbers are:

A 275 150 07 80
A 275 150 08 80

But its best to check by searching MBW. Obviously, don't buy an old type. And be careful removing them, they're easy to break. You need to lift up the appropriate charge cooler, that's no biggie, just be VERY careful to avoid leaks when you put the pipes back together.

Nick

https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...ion-pumps.html

tusabes

Almost every repair on a s600
Has a 4 figure bill to fix

There's no $2-300 repairs on them .

A tuneup is $1000+, coil packs $2000+, abc $3-8000

S600Keith

I haven't done the coil packs but I did the tune-up for $350 and the ABC pump for less than $900 (INCLUDING the Pentosin!). If you are handy you can get it done quite cheaply.

But the point made by tusabes is relevant. Nothing on these cars is cheap. And if you ARE a DIYer you can expect every task to take 3x as long as your first estimate.

Keith

Welwynnick

I took my S600TT for an A service at my local Mercedes dealer this week - not that I recommend everyone does that at all - I just wanted the stamp in the service history. The service cost £300, much like any other car. Of course, they managed to find "a few little things" that also needed doing, which is typical of the "real" reason why dealers do servicing. There was nothing unusual, but they wanted £1300 for the additional work, which I obviously elected to do myself (for about £300).

This is the only car, out of three, where I've had any ABC issues, but it isn't as unmanagable as I once thought.

You can buy reconditioned ABC pumps for $650.
You can buy servicable, used ABC struts for $300.
You can repair burst hydraulic pipes for $50.
You can overhaul the valve blocks for a few dollars.

And I think that's what this thread is all about. If you throw your work at a dealer, they will clean you out. If you make good use of MBWorld and your toolkit, I'd say it was reasonable considering the nature of the beast. My only big expense has been one coil pack, and I was expecting that before I bought it (car had done 146,000 miles and ONE pack had already been replaced).

The S500 has always been a poor man's S600, but I wouldn't describe myself as rich, just resourceful.

Nick

https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...ion-pumps.html

vmystikilv

Then what's the s430, welfare?



Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a 600TT but there is no way I would want one as a everyday car. Something I would keep in the garage and drive 10-20 times a year. That is with praying nothing is wrong with it every time I go out and start it. Even doing things myself parts are still crazy high. My ML I will just die and bury myself in so its not going anywhere and I have mixed feelings about the S500. I LOVE the car, don't get me wrong, but I don't know if its something I want to keep until the wheels fall off or jump ship in 3 years. guess it depends on how it holds up over time. I have repaired everything on it since I bought it though & I know I will catch heck for saying this, but I rather add a BMW850 to my current stable than a s600. its easier to work on and cost much less to run. Anyone see the top gear UK episode with the CL500 vs BMW850ci "pop up headlights FTW"

Welwynnick

I always fancied a BMW 850 - the 850CSi in particular. V12 manuals are AMAZING cars, the engines are so wasted with an automatic. I made do with a 750i a few years ago, which was a lovely car.

I think I saw that Top Gear episide - was that where they attempted to buy two expensive coupes with their own money, and prove they were viable propositions? IIRC, the S600 left the 850 in the dust in a race, but promptly blew its coil pack. It had probably never been driven hard for years.

My 750i and 540i manual never gave me problems working on (I even changed the flywheel on the 540) but I'd never claim the S600TT is easy. The routine things are OK (no removing the inlet manifold to change the spark plugs, and you don't have to worry about the oil cooler leaking) but there are some things I wouldn't like to tackle....

Nick

https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...ion-pumps.html

vmystikilv

Yup, that's the episode . It was hilarious for so many reasons but it ended with Jeremy betting them that one of them would be broken down in 2 weeks and sure enough, the 850i was perfect and the cl600 coil pack went and again, insane amount to fix. I had a flawless 91 850i with momo arrow wheels, loved it. Regret ever selling it. Had to make the at the time finacee happy though. But, he did bring up one really good point . All the technology in s600 with the performance, why bother buying a new car

Fraser

In that episode it was a CL600 and one of the earlier ones with the NA engine, not the bi-turbo,