4.3L V8 vs. new 3.5L V6
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4.3L V8 vs. new 3.5L V6
The new 3.5L V6 for the SLK appears to make the same power and torque as the 4.3L V8. In addition it makes more power and torque than the brand new 3.7L V6. What does this mean for the future of the latter two motors?
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From: Boston
'05 A4 1.8TQM6
I believe that the 3.5 will slowly make it to the other models over time. I think that MB is also redesigning the V8's with 4 valves/cyl, pretty much same idea with the new V6, except incorporated into the V8's.
So my guess is that there will be a S350 and probably up'd HP on the 500 with new V8 possibly, but all guesses at this point. Time will tell.
-G-
So my guess is that there will be a S350 and probably up'd HP on the 500 with new V8 possibly, but all guesses at this point. Time will tell.
-G-
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From: Datchet UK
CLK320
New V8 Motor
I heard that the new V8 for the 500 cars was going to have 325HP and is reduced in capacity to 4.7 Litres.
This means that a naturally aspirated 5.4 Litre would pump out about 415HP...
HELLO ML, CLK and SLK AMGs!!!
This means that a naturally aspirated 5.4 Litre would pump out about 415HP...
HELLO ML, CLK and SLK AMGs!!!
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Re: New V8 Motor
Originally posted by Ru55e11
I heard that the new V8 for the 500 cars was going to have 325HP and is reduced in capacity to 4.7 Litres.
This means that a naturally aspirated 5.4 Litre would pump out about 415HP...
HELLO ML, CLK and SLK AMGs!!!
I heard that the new V8 for the 500 cars was going to have 325HP and is reduced in capacity to 4.7 Litres.
This means that a naturally aspirated 5.4 Litre would pump out about 415HP...
HELLO ML, CLK and SLK AMGs!!!
I have also heard from a few different sources that the AMG V8 will be increased from 5.4L to 6.3L. I presume this motor will get DOHC heads as well (eventually, if not immediately). This would probably allow for about 450hp naturally aspirated.
So this would leave us with:
DOHC 3.5L V6 275hp
DOHC 4.7L V8 325hp
DOHC 6.3L V8 400-450hp
The 3.5L V6 can effectively replace the 4.3L V8, and the 4.7L V8 replaced the 5L V8, and the 6.3L V8 replaces the 5.4L V8.
This still leaves one burning question: what happens to the 3.7L V6 in the current S350 (not sold in US) and ML350? Its fairly new, so its hard to imagine it going away, but at the same time it seems redundant now.
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From: Boston
'05 A4 1.8TQM6
Re: Re: New V8 Motor
Originally posted by mkoesel
Thanks for the bit of info. I presume this will be a DOHC 4V motor as GDawgC220 suggested.
I have also heard from a few different sources that the AMG V8 will be increased from 5.4L to 6.3L. I presume this motor will get DOHC heads as well (eventually, if not immediately). This would probably allow for about 450hp naturally aspirated.
So this would leave us with:
DOHC 3.5L V6 275hp
DOHC 4.7L V8 325hp
DOHC 6.3L V8 400-450hp
The 3.5L V6 can effectively replace the 4.3L V8, and the 4.7L V8 replaced the 5L V8, and the 6.3L V8 replaces the 5.4L V8.
This still leaves one burning question: what happens to the 3.7L V6 in the current S350 (not sold in US) and ML350? Its fairly new, so its hard to imagine it going away, but at the same time it seems redundant now.
Thanks for the bit of info. I presume this will be a DOHC 4V motor as GDawgC220 suggested.
I have also heard from a few different sources that the AMG V8 will be increased from 5.4L to 6.3L. I presume this motor will get DOHC heads as well (eventually, if not immediately). This would probably allow for about 450hp naturally aspirated.
So this would leave us with:
DOHC 3.5L V6 275hp
DOHC 4.7L V8 325hp
DOHC 6.3L V8 400-450hp
The 3.5L V6 can effectively replace the 4.3L V8, and the 4.7L V8 replaced the 5L V8, and the 6.3L V8 replaces the 5.4L V8.
This still leaves one burning question: what happens to the 3.7L V6 in the current S350 (not sold in US) and ML350? Its fairly new, so its hard to imagine it going away, but at the same time it seems redundant now.
I read that the N/A 6.3L from AMG would pump out over 500HP's
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From: Datchet UK
CLK320
MB Engines in general
Sure there will be a 6.3 Litre V8 NA with more than 600HP, but less torque than the TTV12s. AMG is dropping the supercharger route in favour of big bore V8s. I also heard that AMG will be delivering 2 V8s and a V12.
V8 - 5.4 or 5.3 Litre 4 valves etc with about 400 - 420 HP
V8 - 6.3 Litre as above
V12 - 6.05 Litre (dont know about induction but judging from the improvements in the above V8's prob NA) with close to 700 HP.
Torque numbers are harder to come by at this stage.
There will be numerous other engine replacements, but most notably for S and CL Class V12 drivers there seems to be a 'bit of a do' about whether or not to even make an S/CL600 in the new model range.
V8 - 5.4 or 5.3 Litre 4 valves etc with about 400 - 420 HP
V8 - 6.3 Litre as above
V12 - 6.05 Litre (dont know about induction but judging from the improvements in the above V8's prob NA) with close to 700 HP.
Torque numbers are harder to come by at this stage.
There will be numerous other engine replacements, but most notably for S and CL Class V12 drivers there seems to be a 'bit of a do' about whether or not to even make an S/CL600 in the new model range.
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From: Datchet UK
CLK320
V6 245hp 3.7 Litre Engine is a 'stop gap'
mkoesel, it seems that the 3.7 Litre engine in the current S, SL and ML is actually just the same engine block as the 5 Litre current V8 with 2 of the cylinders just removed, and a new crank to counter the difference in balance. There have been reports that it feels a bit 'lumpy'. My feeling is that is why it has only managed to find it's way into some of the heavier cars.
The HP and torque numbers are very close if you take into acount the difference in cylinders.
Interestingly, as part of an earlier argument, MB always underquotes their engines output power and acceleration times. I think really to be sure that they are correct for the worst case situations (very hot climates with poorer quality fuel) so they just quote those figures.
The HP and torque numbers are very close if you take into acount the difference in cylinders.
Interestingly, as part of an earlier argument, MB always underquotes their engines output power and acceleration times. I think really to be sure that they are correct for the worst case situations (very hot climates with poorer quality fuel) so they just quote those figures.
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From: Wilkes Barre Pa.
Fiscal Neo Con Express
hey guys,
doesn't it amaze you how quickly MB will manufacture brand new engines.
when you look at GM, Ford, Toyota, Lexus, etc. you just don't see that kind of progressive approach to engine building. most other manufacturers stay with the same engine for years and years if not decades. i was always confused by this. because if MB can engineer new engines and do it relatively often why don't other manufacturers? ie....look at Lexus. toyota is swimming in money but they don't have anything bigger than a 4.3 litre motor to offer their customers. this is just another reason why MB is king of the hill.
doesn't it amaze you how quickly MB will manufacture brand new engines.
when you look at GM, Ford, Toyota, Lexus, etc. you just don't see that kind of progressive approach to engine building. most other manufacturers stay with the same engine for years and years if not decades. i was always confused by this. because if MB can engineer new engines and do it relatively often why don't other manufacturers? ie....look at Lexus. toyota is swimming in money but they don't have anything bigger than a 4.3 litre motor to offer their customers. this is just another reason why MB is king of the hill.
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From: Boston
'05 A4 1.8TQM6
Originally posted by S55inPA
hey guys,
doesn't it amaze you how quickly MB will manufacture brand new engines. when you look at GM, Ford, Toyota, Lexus, etc. you just don't see that kind of progressive approach to engine building. most other manufacturers stay with the same engine for years and years if not decades. i was always confused by this. because if MB can engineer new engines and do it relatively often why don't other manufacturers? ie....look at Lexus. toyota is swimming in money but they don't have anything bigger than a 4.3 litre motor to offer their customers. this is just another reason why MB is king of the hill.
hey guys,
doesn't it amaze you how quickly MB will manufacture brand new engines.
when you look at GM, Ford, Toyota, Lexus, etc. you just don't see that kind of progressive approach to engine building. most other manufacturers stay with the same engine for years and years if not decades. i was always confused by this. because if MB can engineer new engines and do it relatively often why don't other manufacturers? ie....look at Lexus. toyota is swimming in money but they don't have anything bigger than a 4.3 litre motor to offer their customers. this is just another reason why MB is king of the hill.
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Re: MB Engines in general
Originally posted by Ru55e11
V12 - 6.05 Litre (dont know about induction but judging from the improvements in the above V8's prob NA) with close to 700 HP.
V12 - 6.05 Litre (dont know about induction but judging from the improvements in the above V8's prob NA) with close to 700 HP.
http://www.mercedes-benz.com/omb/amg...cl65/index.htm
http://www.mercedes-benz.com/omb/amg.../s65/index.htm
So as you can see a 6L TT V12 is already in production. 612hp and 1000nm (737ft-lb) torque. I'm not sure if a N/A 6L V12 will also follow, but it will be interesting to see.
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At last some info from the press (which by no means makes it 100%, but it sounds reasonable):
So it looks like the new Mercedes corporate engines will be
DOHC 3.5L V6 272hp
DOHC 4.6L V8 350hp
DOHC 5.5L V8 400hp
DOHC 6.3L V8 500+hp? (AMG)
My guess is that, although it makes almost as much power and torque as the outoing 4.3L V8, the 3.5L V6 will not be available in the S class in the US. The 4.6L will probably be the base option.
The last question remaining is what other V6 displacements will show up below the 3.5L. Not that those would show up in the S-class, but still their size remains a curiousity nonetheless.
from http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=00689032
CLS will be available in the United States in early 2005, with the company's new 24-valve 272-hp 3.5-liter V6 in the CLS350, and the familiar three-valve-per-cylinder 24-valve 306-hp 5.0-liter V8 in the CLS500. About 18 months after CLS goes on sale, two new 32-valve V8 engines will join the lineup: a 350-hp 4.6-liter and a 400-hp 5.5-liter. When they arrive, the existing 5.0-liter V8 will be phased out of production. But before the new V8 engines arrive, Mercedes plans to launch a CLS55 AMG model. Due to premier at the Paris motor show in September, it gets the supercharged 500-hp 5.5-liter V8 engine used in a variety of AMG models.
Need more? In preparation for the new AMG-developed 6.3-liter V8 engine in 2006, Mercedes also has registered the CLS63 name, which AutoWeek sources say will replace the CLS55.
CLS will be available in the United States in early 2005, with the company's new 24-valve 272-hp 3.5-liter V6 in the CLS350, and the familiar three-valve-per-cylinder 24-valve 306-hp 5.0-liter V8 in the CLS500. About 18 months after CLS goes on sale, two new 32-valve V8 engines will join the lineup: a 350-hp 4.6-liter and a 400-hp 5.5-liter. When they arrive, the existing 5.0-liter V8 will be phased out of production. But before the new V8 engines arrive, Mercedes plans to launch a CLS55 AMG model. Due to premier at the Paris motor show in September, it gets the supercharged 500-hp 5.5-liter V8 engine used in a variety of AMG models.
Need more? In preparation for the new AMG-developed 6.3-liter V8 engine in 2006, Mercedes also has registered the CLS63 name, which AutoWeek sources say will replace the CLS55.
DOHC 3.5L V6 272hp
DOHC 4.6L V8 350hp
DOHC 5.5L V8 400hp
DOHC 6.3L V8 500+hp? (AMG)
My guess is that, although it makes almost as much power and torque as the outoing 4.3L V8, the 3.5L V6 will not be available in the S class in the US. The 4.6L will probably be the base option.
The last question remaining is what other V6 displacements will show up below the 3.5L. Not that those would show up in the S-class, but still their size remains a curiousity nonetheless.
Last edited by mkoesel; Feb 25, 2004 at 10:47 AM.
