2001 S430 - No telescopic steering; windshield wipers
05-15-2018, 10:23 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
2001 S430 - No telescopic steering; windshield wipers
Hi all,
I recently acquired a 2001 S430 with a few issues (mainly, the cluster lights are out). I've also found that the telescopic steering and windshield wipers aren't working. I checked fuses 3, 4, and 5, and they all tested fine. I also checked the passenger side, but don't appear to have the indent used to access the fuse box on that side; otherwise, I would have checked fuse 78, as that seems to tie to both the wiper and the steering column (as well as the cruise).
From this, I have a couple questions. Is there actually another fuse panel tucked away on the side of the vehicle that I should be checking, and if so, how do I pry it open to check? If that fuse panel is NOT there, could anyone offer any advice in regard to how one goes about troubleshooting such an issue? My knee jerk reactions are that I may have a problem with the wiring harness going to the steering column from the fuse box on the driver's side, or that for some reason, the relays on the left side might be bad. As I haven't dealt with such a thing before, I'm trying to approach it in a relatively systematic way, but am at a bit of a loss after checking the simpler things. Thanks in advance to anyone who can assist.
I recently acquired a 2001 S430 with a few issues (mainly, the cluster lights are out). I've also found that the telescopic steering and windshield wipers aren't working. I checked fuses 3, 4, and 5, and they all tested fine. I also checked the passenger side, but don't appear to have the indent used to access the fuse box on that side; otherwise, I would have checked fuse 78, as that seems to tie to both the wiper and the steering column (as well as the cruise).
From this, I have a couple questions. Is there actually another fuse panel tucked away on the side of the vehicle that I should be checking, and if so, how do I pry it open to check? If that fuse panel is NOT there, could anyone offer any advice in regard to how one goes about troubleshooting such an issue? My knee jerk reactions are that I may have a problem with the wiring harness going to the steering column from the fuse box on the driver's side, or that for some reason, the relays on the left side might be bad. As I haven't dealt with such a thing before, I'm trying to approach it in a relatively systematic way, but am at a bit of a loss after checking the simpler things. Thanks in advance to anyone who can assist.
05-15-2018, 10:59 PM
#2
MBWorld Fanatic!
If I remember correctly, the passenger-side fuse panel started in 2003.
This might help.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w220...ml#post8947849
Instrument panel lamps out is often due to failed electronic parts in the lighting circuits on the panel. There are folks who can repair this.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w220...l#post10079481
This might help.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w220...ml#post8947849
Instrument panel lamps out is often due to failed electronic parts in the lighting circuits on the panel. There are folks who can repair this.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w220...l#post10079481
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OlafTheAverage (05-15-2018)
05-15-2018, 11:08 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hey,
Thanks for the quick reply. At the moment, I'm not tremendously concerned about the lighting repair, as I've done board work on some things before (I use to be pretty heavy into collecting pinball machines, actually). The problem at the moment is that if I can't get the steering wheel to move for me, I don't know if I have clearance to get the cluster out. One thing at a time with a project car, it appears. :-)
Thanks for the quick reply. At the moment, I'm not tremendously concerned about the lighting repair, as I've done board work on some things before (I use to be pretty heavy into collecting pinball machines, actually). The problem at the moment is that if I can't get the steering wheel to move for me, I don't know if I have clearance to get the cluster out. One thing at a time with a project car, it appears. :-)
05-16-2018, 12:18 AM
#4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hi all,
Well, no one ever accused me of being smart. I did some cross referencing between the fuse chart I found here and a picture I found elsewhere, and I'm pretty sure I'm missing a fuse. Could someone please confirm that fuse F25 is to be a 10 amp fuse? Thanks for the assistance.
Well, no one ever accused me of being smart. I did some cross referencing between the fuse chart I found here and a picture I found elsewhere, and I'm pretty sure I'm missing a fuse. Could someone please confirm that fuse F25 is to be a 10 amp fuse? Thanks for the assistance.
05-16-2018, 12:53 AM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
The cluster comes out very easy on the 220, but yes you may have to lower the column to get it out, I don't know. I'll look up the schematics when i have a chance to see if there's something related to check.
05-17-2018, 12:45 AM
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hey,
Thanks all. Here's what I have found.
Based upon the VIN, I apparently have a vehicle built on January 15, 2001. In turn, my thinking was that I have to use the earliest fuse diagram available from here (diagram A0005451500). And I didn't have a fuse in position 25. I thought I had this one cracked..throw a ten amp fuse in and go, right?
Putting a fuse in didn't rectify the situation. I pulled the driver's side fuse block out (the one under the hood), and there were no wires connecting in to fuse F25. This leads me to one of two conclusions. Either a) I have a wire that's fallen out of there, or b) fuse 25 isn't the culprit, and for some reason, I need to use diagram A0005451600. In case a, I have some digging around in that fuse box to do. In case b, the features running off fuses 3, 4, and 5 aren't working, making me wonder where I proceed from there. I'm thinking I pull all the relays and test them. If someone could point me to a schematic, I'd be GREATLY appreciative.
There are two other points that may or may not be related, but I figured I should include for thoroughness. I have had to jump the car. When I did this, immediately after doing so, the wipers have turned on. This indicates to me that the wipers can get power, they just aren't getting the signal from the steering column. I would hazard a guess that the same thing is happening for the telescopic steering (and maybe the cruise control?). The other point is that I've tried reading the codes with an ODB-II reader, and it comes up reading "Error", with no codes whatsoever. So, part of me wonders if I have a blown out control unit of some sort? I've heard the term "SAM" module tossed around, but I don't the ins and outs thereof.
Thanks all for reading this novel and any advice you've offered (or will offer). Really appreciate it.
Thanks all. Here's what I have found.
Based upon the VIN, I apparently have a vehicle built on January 15, 2001. In turn, my thinking was that I have to use the earliest fuse diagram available from here (diagram A0005451500). And I didn't have a fuse in position 25. I thought I had this one cracked..throw a ten amp fuse in and go, right?
Putting a fuse in didn't rectify the situation. I pulled the driver's side fuse block out (the one under the hood), and there were no wires connecting in to fuse F25. This leads me to one of two conclusions. Either a) I have a wire that's fallen out of there, or b) fuse 25 isn't the culprit, and for some reason, I need to use diagram A0005451600. In case a, I have some digging around in that fuse box to do. In case b, the features running off fuses 3, 4, and 5 aren't working, making me wonder where I proceed from there. I'm thinking I pull all the relays and test them. If someone could point me to a schematic, I'd be GREATLY appreciative.
There are two other points that may or may not be related, but I figured I should include for thoroughness. I have had to jump the car. When I did this, immediately after doing so, the wipers have turned on. This indicates to me that the wipers can get power, they just aren't getting the signal from the steering column. I would hazard a guess that the same thing is happening for the telescopic steering (and maybe the cruise control?). The other point is that I've tried reading the codes with an ODB-II reader, and it comes up reading "Error", with no codes whatsoever. So, part of me wonders if I have a blown out control unit of some sort? I've heard the term "SAM" module tossed around, but I don't the ins and outs thereof.
Thanks all for reading this novel and any advice you've offered (or will offer). Really appreciate it.
05-17-2018, 08:35 AM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hi all,
Thanks so much for the replies. I thought I'd give a quick update just so people didn't assume I'd wandered off into the wilderness and disappeared.
From running the VIN on my car, I thought I had an earlier model with fuse F25 controlling the wipers/telescopic steering/maybe the cruise. Putting in fuse F25 didn't resolve the issue. I actually pulled the fuse block out, and when I look at the location for fuse F25, there's no wire running to it. This says to me that a) a wire slipped off, and I have to go digging around my fuse box, or b) I have a slightly newer model that doesn't require said fuse, and I have more troubleshooting to do.
I can dig around and figure out that first case, but that second case is a bit problematic for me. When I purchased the car, I knew it had a pretty heavy parasitic drawdown, which I as well as the seller assumed was from the cluster bulbs being faulty; I was thinking I could just replace said transformer and carry on my way. As usual with projects, it wasn't this simple.
Because of the drawdown, I have had to jump-start the car. When I have done so, the wipers have come on. This says to me that power can and will get to the wipers, it's just not getting there from the steering column (it also says I have some oddball problem, but I'm pretty sure I knew that already :-) ). I'd gather the same thing is happening with my steering column. Based upon this, my next step is to test my relays, and provided I can find instructions, test the slots holding the relays in place to see if the signals themselves are reaching the relays.
If anyone happens to have a schematic or could tell me the path from the steering column to those relays, I'd greatly appreciate it. I've heard the term "SAM module" tossed around, but am not entirely sure if that's the issue I'm looking at. I do know signals will travel from the steering wheel out; I can pop my bright lights on and off from the same stalk that should control my wipers.
Again, thanks to all who've offered advice, and thanks in advance to anyone who continues to do so.
Thanks so much for the replies. I thought I'd give a quick update just so people didn't assume I'd wandered off into the wilderness and disappeared.
From running the VIN on my car, I thought I had an earlier model with fuse F25 controlling the wipers/telescopic steering/maybe the cruise. Putting in fuse F25 didn't resolve the issue. I actually pulled the fuse block out, and when I look at the location for fuse F25, there's no wire running to it. This says to me that a) a wire slipped off, and I have to go digging around my fuse box, or b) I have a slightly newer model that doesn't require said fuse, and I have more troubleshooting to do.
I can dig around and figure out that first case, but that second case is a bit problematic for me. When I purchased the car, I knew it had a pretty heavy parasitic drawdown, which I as well as the seller assumed was from the cluster bulbs being faulty; I was thinking I could just replace said transformer and carry on my way. As usual with projects, it wasn't this simple.
Because of the drawdown, I have had to jump-start the car. When I have done so, the wipers have come on. This says to me that power can and will get to the wipers, it's just not getting there from the steering column (it also says I have some oddball problem, but I'm pretty sure I knew that already :-) ). I'd gather the same thing is happening with my steering column. Based upon this, my next step is to test my relays, and provided I can find instructions, test the slots holding the relays in place to see if the signals themselves are reaching the relays.
If anyone happens to have a schematic or could tell me the path from the steering column to those relays, I'd greatly appreciate it. I've heard the term "SAM module" tossed around, but am not entirely sure if that's the issue I'm looking at. I do know signals will travel from the steering wheel out; I can pop my bright lights on and off from the same stalk that should control my wipers.
Again, thanks to all who've offered advice, and thanks in advance to anyone who continues to do so.
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05-17-2018, 09:06 AM
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
SAM = Signal Acquisition Module = One of three small computers that control various parts/functions. One under the rear seat, one on each side under the hood, all co-located with fuse panels.
Are you aware that you can quickly test each fuse without removing it? On the face of each fuse are two tiny recesses, with bare metal at the bottom. Touch the two metal tabs with a 12-volt test light, and you can instantly tell whether you have no power, power on one side, or power on both sides.
No power may mean that that circuit is powered only under certain conditions (e.g., ignition switch or other switch on), or that there is a problem with the power supply to that circuit (e.g., bad connection, broken wire, other fuse blown, etc.).
Power on one side means that the fuse is blown.
Power on both sides means that the fuse is good - it does not mean that the power is getting thru the output side fuse connector!
I don't think that it is really likely, but there is a possibility that one of the main fuses (or the connections to it) has a problem. The main fuses are best tested with a high-draw test light (e.g., one made using a headlight bulb). There are fuses under the trunk lining forward of the battery, and under the passenger-side carpet under metal shields. Test in such a way as to ensure that the power is getting to the wires involved, not just to the connectors. ANY signs of corrosion or heat means that you must disconnect the battery ground cable (ensuring that it can't creep back into contact!), then disassemble and thoroughly clean everything on these connections.
Another possibility is that there is a loose connection at a plug from the failed switches at/in the column, or in the fuse box from the input power to the affected fuses.
You can download WIS (Workshop Information System) from online sources, sometimes for free. Complex, but useful.
Are you aware that you can quickly test each fuse without removing it? On the face of each fuse are two tiny recesses, with bare metal at the bottom. Touch the two metal tabs with a 12-volt test light, and you can instantly tell whether you have no power, power on one side, or power on both sides.
No power may mean that that circuit is powered only under certain conditions (e.g., ignition switch or other switch on), or that there is a problem with the power supply to that circuit (e.g., bad connection, broken wire, other fuse blown, etc.).
Power on one side means that the fuse is blown.
Power on both sides means that the fuse is good - it does not mean that the power is getting thru the output side fuse connector!
I don't think that it is really likely, but there is a possibility that one of the main fuses (or the connections to it) has a problem. The main fuses are best tested with a high-draw test light (e.g., one made using a headlight bulb). There are fuses under the trunk lining forward of the battery, and under the passenger-side carpet under metal shields. Test in such a way as to ensure that the power is getting to the wires involved, not just to the connectors. ANY signs of corrosion or heat means that you must disconnect the battery ground cable (ensuring that it can't creep back into contact!), then disassemble and thoroughly clean everything on these connections.
Another possibility is that there is a loose connection at a plug from the failed switches at/in the column, or in the fuse box from the input power to the affected fuses.
You can download WIS (Workshop Information System) from online sources, sometimes for free. Complex, but useful.
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OlafTheAverage (05-17-2018)
05-19-2018, 11:03 PM
#10
Member
Just curious, how old is your battery? I've heard that certain systems don't work well with weak batteries on these cars and just shut down to protect itself. Where your wipers are working during the jumping of your car, did anything else work while jumping the car?
I've read a lot that our cars are extremely sensitive to weak batteries....even batteries that will start the car and show decent voltage might not be well enough to handle the electronics as a whole.
I've read a lot that our cars are extremely sensitive to weak batteries....even batteries that will start the car and show decent voltage might not be well enough to handle the electronics as a whole.
05-19-2018, 11:06 PM
#11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Just curious, how old is your battery? I've heard that certain systems don't work well with weak batteries on these cars and just shut down to protect itself. Where your wipers are working during the jumping of your car, did anything else work while jumping the car?
I've read a lot that our cars are extremely sensitive to weak batteries....even batteries that will start the car and show decent voltage might not be well enough to handle the electronics as a whole.
I've read a lot that our cars are extremely sensitive to weak batteries....even batteries that will start the car and show decent voltage might not be well enough to handle the electronics as a whole.
Thanks for the reply! I'm not 100 percent sure on the age of the battery, but can likely find out, as I know the seller pretty well. I'll check into it and see what I can see!
In regard to other things working, I did not notice anything operating "on its own", so to speak.
05-19-2018, 11:28 PM
#12
Member
See if the steering column will move while the wipers are going during the jump before you disconnect anything. You might be getting enough power to run erything while jumping it.
05-21-2018, 12:00 AM
#13
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hey all,
To close this loop off, I ended up doing a couple things. One, I dug under the front passenger footwell and in an attempt to check the larger fuses there, disconnected the larger red cable, as well as the two smaller red cables; both are shown here. I also removed the fuse panel and reseated all the connectors. I cannot pinpoint which of these rectified my issue, but I now have telescopic steering, wipers, and cruise. Thanks to all who assisted; I wish I could give a more definitive conclusion as to what exactly rectified the situation.
To close this loop off, I ended up doing a couple things. One, I dug under the front passenger footwell and in an attempt to check the larger fuses there, disconnected the larger red cable, as well as the two smaller red cables; both are shown here. I also removed the fuse panel and reseated all the connectors. I cannot pinpoint which of these rectified my issue, but I now have telescopic steering, wipers, and cruise. Thanks to all who assisted; I wish I could give a more definitive conclusion as to what exactly rectified the situation.
