tntmcj

from a very good source in germany ( no speculation here) new body s class will debut with these engines standard 410hp 5.5 normally aspirated engine, 4 valves per cylinder, 7spd trans. next the 6.3 approx 500hp normally aspirated engine w/7spd trans. and now for the amg 6.5 over 600hp,
(would`nt say how) but i can only guess turbo`s and a 5spd trans. this person has given very good info in the past and is a wealth of knowledge for any new benz product.

Wolfman

Interesting. I heard that the 6.3 will not arrive before 2006.

Wolfman

fgodoy1

I'm glad that MB is going to increase the power of the non-AMG versions like the S500, since they have basically been using the a variation of a 5.0 V8 with 300-315 hp for the past 10 years. However, it wasn't until BMW came out with the new 745 and Audi came out with the A8 with 340 hp that power became such a hot topic on heavy luxury sedans.

I read all over the web and stuff that AMG is going away from superchargers so I think you must be right about the turbo's. Why are they moving away from superchargers? Is it purely a cost of unit/replacement issue?

CynCarvin32

Both the 6.3 and 6.5 are AMG V8's. Both are 100% NA (naturally aspirated) and amg only plans to use turbos for ultra high power V12's if at all. The new NA V8 makes 600 hp at 6.5L so why bother with forced induction? It only adds weight and pointless mass which only leads to heavy cars that have trouble turning and stopping like their NA counterparts.

The S500 will have 400+ hp and the S430 (or equivalent) will be in the low 300hp's. Not bad at all I must say!

Wolfman

A n/a 6.5 AMG V8 making it into production is pure speculation at this point...and to call superchargers and turbos "a pointless mass" is a pretty silly statement.
When I look at the powercurve and req. revving of latest BMW M5 engine incarnation, one that actually delivers 100 hp per liter (naturally aspirated), I can only say that I will take a supercharger over that any day...

Wolfman

tntmcj

wolfman, though you may think that the 6.5 is purely speculation i can assure you that it is reality, and you will see it in the new body s-class, mercedes has big plans for the next few years, the cls is being introduced to fill the void that the new more expensive s class would have created, that void being the difference in price between the e-class and the s class.

Wolfman

I don't disagree with you that a 6+ liter engine will make it into the new S-class. It has been known for some time that the 55's will be dropped from line-up.
It is certainly unlikely that the engines will be introduced on model launch as the 63 is slated for 06 (M156 engine) and so far is planned with 476 hp with 600nm torque (which is less than the current 55 sc engine).
Re. the 6.5 the question is how they will squeeze 125hp out of virtually the same size engine without any forced induction...
My assumption (or best guess) is that the AMG will come about one year after the initial model launch and the engine will be fine-tuned and modified up to that point. Ultimately they will do whatever it takes to get the desired power curve (including superchargers or turbos).

Personally though I am really excited about the car because beside more power they are also trying to really up the quality and electronics reliabilty.

Wolfman

tntmcj

from what these guys explained to me, they said the 6.3 will have at least 500 hp, they told me the engine has already been tested in the new s-class body and performed well, as far as 476 hp that number never came up, as far as when benz plans to release the 6.5 well normally what happens is the new model is released and then 4-6 mos later the amg versions are released in limited numbers, and in our conversation he told me they are going to try to shorten the gap, i have been in contact with these guys for the last 2 years and was introduced to them, by a very close friend of mine who is actually a vendor who supplies them with parts, they are great people and have been a wealth of knowledge to me and my customers in anwering questions about amg models and plans for the future, as a salesperson in a large benz store it is first come first serve, and let me tell you when i go to the owner with orders on cars that do not exist yet he laughs, 2 years later when the cars are put in to production, my customers are 1st in line.

Wolfman

No doubt that the 6.3 is far down the line in development and the 476 hp is a simple way to match the current 55 sc engine (in the E class) . As I understand it is that the 63 will be introduced in the CLS first and then moved to other models. Now this will be an AMG version though. The S may have the 500hp output (to match the current S-Class).

I assume that they may actually do the same thing as they will with the next gen. CL in 2006 as well (introduce the S550, like the CL550)

That said, I definitely agree with you on ordering cars two years before the show up in the country. I have done this for the last five years with my dealer and usually end-up first in line after the ViP deliveries

Wolfman

treynor

Well well - a 6.5L twin-turbo AMG model, eh? I could probably be talked into trading my current S600 on one of those when the time comes.

Mmmm... mid 11-second stock 4-doors. Yummy

tntmcj

treynor first let me say your video has done wonders for my business, can no longer keep s-600, sl600s in stock, i actually think that your next benz will be the mid-engine supercar currently going through r&d at amg. they are trying the 1000 hp 1000 pft. we in chicago have a very small group of benz hp freaks, as the enginner at amg said to me yesterday we have the engines and transmissions to handle the horsepower, now just give us the car

GDawgC220

apparently, they are getting rid of the "500" engine and replacing it with a "550" engine. This comes from news of the new w216 CL-Class coming in 2006 and engine changes. I'm assuming they're going to do the same with the engines in the w221.

"ENGINES
The “smallest” CL engine in the CL 500 will be replaced with a new V8 550 engine with 5.5 liter capacity and a power of 388hp. The CL 600 remains unchanged (V12 bi-turbo - 500hp) as well as the AMG model CL 65 AMG with 612hp. The new CL 63 AMG will get a power boost to 500hp, and so it will replace the CL 55 AMG. Rumors say that a diesel hybrid engine could find its way into the next CL-class although not confirmed by Mercedes yet. "

treynor

Heh. The sales boost is an unintended but welcome consequence of my racing activities. I should ask Mercedes to sponsor me (except, since nothing breaks, what's there to sponsor??).

The new lineup is certainly sounding interesting!