Hi guys!

I was wondering what type of W220 to buy S400 or S430-S500?

I love Mercedes vehicles, they feel great and have unexaggerated yet awesome looks.
I had C250TD universal one then have driven an E-class 270CDI w210 which had a quite improvement in performance. While all cars are great in their own way I have admired Mercedes having this Mafia reputation in European parts and I just love everything about it, comfort, looks, performance.

Now, I live in Europe and I would like to purchase a car of this type but I am not sure what to put my money on?

I want to get the most out of the performance so I am either looking at S400CDI, S430 or S500 depending on availability. I know the S-class isn't the race car type but I just want it to do the most of what it can since I don't plan to use it for daily use but I do want it to bring a smile on my face when I drive it.

I figured both (S400 at 191kw and S500 at 225kw) can get chip tuned for optimal peak performance and some exhaust modifications if I really like the car so why not dump some more money under it? S500 I would set up with LPG to compensate for higher mileage. S430 I would pick up if it was listed for a good price.

S400 had one thing that other engines don't - turbos, would it be possible to turbo swap the beast and tune it to even better performance? It seems simple because it already comes with turbos so I won't be dumping loads of cash just to get a turbo set up working with a remap but I am not sure if the engine will handle it, Mercedes do have bombproof motors but I've heard that this engine doesn't like tampering with its hardware.

All in all, I just want to get the most out of it, best bang for the buck as you will. Of course there is the S600 I could pick up but that thing is a bit in another league in terms of availability and price.

What would you guys recommend?

I plan on slowly fixing this car up and storaging it in a warm garage until I want to use it, a summer car of some sort, or something like that. Since I want to fix it up I don't want to end up regretting picking up the wrong engine. I don't really need a car to get through my life, (work is near my home) so this car would be more of a car to just drive when I want to and when I really have essential roadtrips where I need my own vehicle.

Thanks for reading guys!

 

Depends on gas prices or registration /taxes go by engine size in your country .

the s55 kompressor or s600 biturbo is not an expensive car at $6000-8000 and you get the best performance . If all you can afford is $3000-5000 then s430 or s500 are fine

 

Hey! Thanks for the reply!

Ideally S600 would be awesome to own, gas prices in Europe while high I am comfortable owning the car since it would be driven when I just want to drive it.

The problem is that while 6000-8000 would be an S600 I don't see any listed in this country, importing one would add even more, so I thought about S500-s that are more common (still rare but are there), they go for about 3000-5000 euros so I thought I would pick one up and fix it up.

S400CDI seemed like a quick to tune choice but I am worried the engine won't handle any modifications without spending big bucks on internals, I don't want to kill the engine.

I am slowly leaning towards S500 and maybe swapping it for an S600 in future if one appears and I have more money to offer.

 

Theap V-12 engines are not all 'bullet proof'. Some "AMG" versions had defective head bolts, defective camshafts and cam timing adjusters, defective valve buckets. All the issues were 'top end' and costly to cure.But once sorted out they are wonderful to drive. The diesel engines are all solid and reliable, but cannot live forever if 'tuned' to twice the rated power and driven a lot at those power levels. These cars are very complicated and costly to service and repair because of labor required to fix many things. There are not designed for easy maintenance. If you can not perform 99% of the repairs and maintenance yourself, you will not be able to afford to keep it up.

 

Okay! Well I was looking at S600-s non AMG variants, found one in Lithuania listed for 6300 euros, going to keep my eye out if I can't find one here in Estonia might have to get one from there in future.

I have average mechanical knowledge and I do respect that the Benz here has probably more complicated engineering than your average car, luckily I do have a friend who is engine guru when it comes to engine swaps and rebuilding engines, he is planning to turbo a car himself, yet I am not interested in turbo-ing a car I want the car to work as it should.
I feel that the car should be designed to do 500 horsepower not be forced to do it, that's what cheap outerior sleepers are for.

Coming back to the S400 I would've just upgraded the turbos and remapped the car to max like ~280kw range, I feel like should be more than enough, doubling the power would just be pain although doable.

So far I think maybe I should just buy the S500 and if I grow power hungry swap it out for the S600?

 

Recognizing that cars are individuals, and that fuel economy can vary among identical cars, here is one point on the chart...

I drove a 2003 S430 for several years - ran great, good fuel economy. Then, Bambi's mom committed suicide by W220, totaling the car. I promptly found a nice 2003 S500 at a very good price (because it had a failed Airmatic strut) to replace the S430. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the fuel economy was noticeably better on the S500.

Become very familiar with the available options - there can be a huge difference between a basic version and a fully-optioned version.

 

Yes! I have heard myself that the big engines still give good fuel economy, specially on longer distances. I will also be sure to look for what options each versions give!

So I am thinking the route of getting the S500 and ugprading to S600 in future, since I haven't owned w220-s before anything specific to look for when I get to see one?
Any specific problems with the car to haggle the price on? Don't want to overpay for the car as I figure it would need repairs anyways.

If the engine is okay and most of the electronics too then I guess it's worth a buy, some light rust spots can be dealt with in a body shop ( I would probably do it myself but given the car I want the rust gone forever so I probably will have rust spots cut out), with this European humid weather I just can't have a half assed garage job on body works without real paintgun and stuff.

Also do you guys recommend the S500 or S500L? Personally I seem to like the S500 more but I heard that S500L is better for cruising.

 

Don’t worry about what model to get , the most important thing is finding the best condition car out of all the W220 for sale

the price difference from the worst condition cheap ones to the best condition is not that much more money and is well worth it

the electronics and suspension are the problem areas on these cars not the engine

 

Okay!

Airmatic sure is fun and comfy WHEN it works, I know that fixing suspension is costly when it breaks down. Compared to regular spring it makes your car undrivable if you should have a fully failing suspension part.

I will be sure to listen around for hissing near suspension and hope for the best but what about electronics? Any specific parts that give in or just anomalies all around?

 

Here in the USA, we didn't really have a choice - there are almost no short-wheelbase W220 cars available. The L will seem like a limo, but I have no idea at all of the cost difference where you are.

"Having" anything fixed will be expensive. This may seem harsh, but if you can't do virtually all of the maintenance and repairs yourself, and you are not able or willing to buy the Diagnostic Assistance System, you probably shouldn't be getting romantically involved with a W220.

 

In Estonia you see quite a lot of S500-s with L variants being the rarer variant. Price range is also pretty much the same.

I totally understand what you mean under having stuff fixed, I do plan on buying diagnostic system and doing maintenance myself of course, I want to get to know the car! Body works is the only exception where I would pay someone else because I feel like I can't just do the body work on same level as a professional, I would rather pay someone for a long term / permanent job rather than have a car panel bubbling up with rust every year.
Would probably spend more on tools & paint and have a headache doing the job multiple times rather than having it done, sometimes paying more is paying less I think.

Now, I do have a friend who happens to be my best friend, he does have welding equipment and average painting equipment so parts where I don't fear about rust so much and just mainly want a respray, that can be done by him as he is familiar with his equipment.

I don't know how it is in USA, awesome country by the way, would want to visit it some day, but I don't know how costly the body repairs are there but in Estonia body works seem affordable unless you drive up to a Mercedes dealership, then yes you end up paying thousands for a simple repair.

 

Personally, I would recommend the S430 or S500 with the 5-speed transmission. Avoid the 7-speed if you can, due to maintenance problems. We have two S430's, an S500, and an S600, all with the 5-speed. Of them, the S430 and S500 are going to be the most reliable, because of the M113 V8 engine. In Estonia, you might also do well with the S320 CDI if that version is offered. The OM648 Diesel engine is excellent as well.

Also, look for a car with AIRmatic suspension instead of ABC. The ABC suspension, when it's working, works very well. The problem is that it's high-maintenance, compared to AIRmatic. When ABC fails, that can become *VERY* expensive. I have found that AIRmatic is really not that difficult to keep in good repair. Furthermore, unlike ABC, AIRmatic typically does give you plenty of warning before the car becomes undriveable, so you will have time to order parts and make the repair.

Whether you go with the short wheelbase or the long wheelbase doesn't really matter that much, because even the E320 CDI, which I have, provides sufficient space in the rear for typical (1.75 metre tall) passengers. So, there's no problem going with the "-s" variant.

 

As much as I would love myself a diesel I would want the car to have a bit of oompf in regards of the engine department since the body of the car is already a bit heavy.

The AIRmatic recommendation is well something good to know, I already would imagine myself paying out the price of the initial car to get ABC suspension done then.
What about the gears though? Does 5 speed perform as well as the 7 speed? Or is just more durable? Fuel economy? Performance?

About the wheelbase I don't mind much if I had a long wheelbase version but I do like the appearance of the short one a bit more.

 

Oh, the Diesel has oompf, rest assured. :-) Since we have both an S500 (the wife's car) and an E320 CDI, I've been able to compare the two directly. She's currently driving the E320 CDI and says yep, it's got some "git-up-n-go" to it. Due to the OM648's torque, they're actually comparable, and it has thrown me back into the seat. I can only imagine what the S400 CDI would do. Note that if you get the short-wheelbase W220, that's going to be rather closer to the mass of the W211, so you should get similar acceleration. Where you'll notice the difference is accelerating to speeds past, say, 100 km/hour. That's where the M113 engines tend to take over due to the greater horsepower/KW.

I've driven a 7-speed. You will theoretically get just slightly increased performance from the 7-speed vs. the 5-speed due to the tighter gearing. That makes sense from a physics perspective. However, the engines are so powerful, and the transmissions are efficient enough, that it really doesn't make that much of a difference. I find that the 5-speed performs very well, and I will always take reliability over the promise of a little better performance, any day.