silberrosa

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...LOG06/60418001

Nevada Jack

Nice review...thanks for posting.

If the writers think the LS460 is a "potential homerun" (many potential homeruns are also foul *****) then I would call the S550 a sure "Grand Slam"...:-)

kevine310

Is it just my eyes or did they decide to move the "big" antenna from the rear roof of the car to the trunk? What happened to the little bump on the trunk? did they move that to the roof?

Nevada Jack

The "big" shark is on the roof in body color and the "bump" is on the trunk in body color...see my signature image.

The car in the review is an early demo car and they had two sharks, one on the trunk and one on the roof.

kevine310

thanks for the response. I thought I recall reading somewhere that the bump on the trunk will be smoothed out for newer models, is that true? Regardless, I think it looks alightly better than the BMW sharkfins.

04S430

Unless Toyota etal., considerably up the prices of their next generation LS460's; I say to you: Right on, Jack.
Peter M.

blessed

The LS 460 and the S 550 are my top choices also. I am finding it hard to wait to see the LS 460 because the S 550 is such a beautiful car. The jury is out on the Lexus it may be a good car but until you can drive it and sit in it there is no telling. It is hard but I will wait to see the Lexus. The S 550 is sure the better looking of the two inside and out.

EMPIRE2007

If U consider Lexus LS460, didnt U check the new LS600HL, I like the white interior on that.

blessed

The LSH 600 is coming out even later than the LS 460. I am having a hard enough time waiting until Oct-Sept(2006) I know I can't wait until spring 2007 for the LSH 600 to come out.

Nevada Jack

I would be reluctant to jump into a Hybrid right now...especially a new one with a V8 engine. Batteries are an unknown factor with these engines. In addition recent analysis shows that the new diesels are more economical and provice better performance and mileage in some cases. Nothing scientific in my statement just what I have gathered in general reading.

Lexus is suave in their marketing and aiming it directly at the S Class. They are calling the LS460 a "Great" car and nobody has driven one yet. I am sure it will get rave reviews and brag about all the goodies, but the proof will be in the pudding...how does it handle and feel to drive.

MB Fanatic

I would also say that the interior on the new LS460 looks like ****. Look at that console and all you see is plastic. No design whatsoever. The dash looks confused and complicated to operate in stark contrast to the S, A8, or 7, with the S being the easiest to use out of all of them.

The LS hybrid is a no go in my books, and the only thing that Lexus has over MB is a marketing strategy that is spot on the money. They know how to appeal to the consumer with its suave marketing tactics. Lets face it, MBUSA lacks in this department.

ohnoes

My question is, why would serious luxury sedan-seekers even look at the LS, unless they absolutely do not care about agility and acceleration? Lexuses are Toyotas; thus, their handling and acceleration is relative to their Toyota engines. That translates to: plush, almost silent feel, with little to no agility and fun. Of course, if you're the type who's looking for a car in which you feel like you're riding first-class on a 747, the LS might be for you. But, for true German enthusiasts, the FWD, 4.6 (or whatever) cylinder Toyota is not gonna cut it. Not to mention that the interior materials used in Toyotas and Hondas are pretty lousy compared to their German counterparts.

Mrkhan347

thats exactly how i feel towards toy...uhhh i mean lexuses...if u want a luxury vehicle make sure it aint an upgrade from a lesser vehicle...thats why i prefer Mercedes and BMW over the lesser quality Lexus.

georgl

Isn't the Lexus exactly what you need in the states? Wasn't it build for this purpose? On the Autobahn you can feel the difference in quality - but at 65MPH?
Both cars have nearly 400HP, the 221 is already extremly silent at this speed?
Is ride quality and fun really such a big deal for you?
I'm just curious, I drove along the west coast with Chrysler und Chevrolet (what a nightmare ;-) and it never felt like I would need 400HP!? :-)

The 221 is superior in technology, I'm pretty sure about this, most technological aspects aren't even visible or can be printed in a brochure ("look, this car has..."), the eight-speed-automatic of the lexus feels like a marketing-trick, every >=6-speed-automatic can be programmed to get up to 9(!!!)-speeds, and it's just a automatic from a supplier (Aisin is also used in german cars where ZF is too expensive - doesn't that say everything?) while the 7G-tronic (with magnesium-body and other "gimmicks" beneath the seven gears) is from MB.

The big advantage of the 221 would be possibly the higher quality, because all the little problems (they're always there) are mostly gone after ~100.000 cars produced (MJ 2007 - after July-production?) when the LS460 just gets started.

Mean-Benz

these opinions appear pretty airy to me. i not a big lexus fan, but the materials aren't ****. actually lexuses have one of the highest build-qualities on the luxury market. and in cases of plastic, mercedes s-classes have plastic interior doorhandles while lexus uses real aluminum.

the middle console may have a confusing button alignment, but can you handle yourself through Comand II while driving?

and the price case is clear: with all the options on the s-class with which the lex comes standard, the LS would only cost the half of the mercedes.

and the reliability? the gap has narrowed extremely in the last months so this case loses weight.

if the ride quality is right, I'd buy it.

georgl

mercedes s-classes have plastic interior doorhandles while lexus uses real aluminum.

The 211 and the 169 have plastic-door-handles - but I think the 221 are made of zinc-diecast (aluminium is usually not coated with with chrome). The old LS has zinc-handles, but the new IS, GS and the RX have plastic-handles...

Have you seen the aluminium-light-switch, the exterior door handles (most of their mechanics are made of metal, just look inside while you pull them out), Einstiegsleisten (sorry - my Langenscheidt does not tell ;-)...

And how do you want to compare the LS with the 221 in price? The prices of the new LS are not out and the V8 of the old one has 100HP less power than the S550! They're just to different.
Also remember that prices and extras are very different in Germany.

MBZFAN55

I'm a long time, loyal Mercedes owner, but I have to tell you it's more than Lexus's marketing strategy that is making buyers take note. The marketing may bring the people in, but it is just the beginning. The Lexus sales approach treats potential buyers the way they expect to be treated, unlike the many of the complaints that you read on this forum. Even multiple purchase Mercedes owners are amazed at the attitude and arrogance of many MB sales people. How about the quality of our beloved Mercedes vehicles? All manufacturers have issues, but let's be honest, our W220's have been the laughing stock of the automotive industry. Lexus on the other hand, enjoys a virtually impeccable reputation for initial build quality, complimented by highly rated after sale service. We condem Lexus for their copycat styling and lackluster "driving experience", but you have to admit, Lexus is redefining luxury car sales and service, particularly in German boardrooms.

Nevada Jack

I agree with some of your approach but my problem with the sales staff is the lack of competitive pricing on behalf of some owners or general managers. The sales reps have been excellent but when it comes to crunch time, the "arrogant" dealer side of the house is deaf and sees only one position. Fletcher Jones in LV has been that way until I purchased my S430...then they became civil and dealt with me. Glauser in Denver should be the mold for dealers to follow...the Sales Manager and sales rep were most cooperative and it was probably the best car deal I have been involved in.

As far as quality there have been problems but I was lucky enough not to experience any of a signficant nature with my '98 E wagon, 2003 E320 and the S430. But Lexus is not home free with the problems...they just don't seem to get the press that MB gets. MB caused this themselves when Herr Schrimp decided to cut corners.

With the R, ML, GL and the new S, I think the quality thing may just go away but whether JD Powers (the washing machine auto experts) will let it go is another thing. (If they think they can get MB to purchase one of their licenses of excellence then maybe so.) The S550 in my estimation at this point in time is perfect and reminds me of my earlier mid 70's and up models. Tight as a drum, build is solid, performance is great and the ride truly Mercedes Benz. Lexus may market and crow but they are always looking up and trying to convince that their product is better than one car...Mercedes Benz. With the W221, the mountain just got a lot higher

georgl

My problem with the whole quality comparison between Lexus and MB is the historical background.
The W220 (every MB from the 202 to the 221) has some problems, I think the quality of the interior materials and some other details is not worthy the name Mercedes, but the whole construction is very solid, most technological solutions are more advanced than the Lexus solutions.
But what was the reason for this change? Why came after the best build mass-production-car ever made (140) the 220? The reason is: Toyota!
They reduced costs, invested much more money into marketing, saved money in construction (you can even see it today on the surface with using ordinary locks, window-buttons...) and innovation (only make what the customer wants and not everything that makes sense and maybe isn't even visible). Making everything as cheap as possible, forcing every supplier to reduce costs every year...
To MB all of this was unknown, they made nearly 60% of the cars themseves, rarely changed suppliers, payed more for testing, construction and often chose very expensive solution even when the customer couldn't see them. But when 124/140-sales weren't as well as hoped they made most things "toyota-style".
I've compared both brands for years, today a MB is maybe 80% ordinary made and 20% is making it different from other automobiles.
But the Lexus really superior? 124/140-style? How?

You get it?
Why should the company responsible for the biggest cost reduction and quality problems be the one with the highest quality?
Because J.D.-Power or Bild and Toyota-marketing is telling you?
No, they just write everything the readers wants to hear, right now the "Lexus-quality" is becoming a little bit boring so MB won last year (enty luxury class or something like that?)...
Toyota is making even more money than MB, so why should they invest more money into quality materials/production? They always make as much as necessary to make the highest profit.
You're looking for products made by engineers? Don't buy a car!
I hope MB gets the chance to become an engineers-company again, but right now they just trying to live with the quality limitations given by cost reduction (like Lexus, like BMW, like Audi) - the 221 isn't different (maybe the advanced technology leads to a superior car even with cost reduction).

P.S. I drove dozens of MBs the last 30 years, the last one which cracked up was a 1955' Ponton ;-) Everything else were just minor problems, even when I'm angry about the fact that they could have made some things better.
Oh man, I see I shouldn't write at this time - especially not in English, the spelling and grammar maybe hurts your eyes... ;-)

ohnoes

Yeah, I didn't understand much of what you said.

I completely agree with you. The German and exotics dealers have an undeniably arrogant air about them that really turns a lot of people off. They want to make sure you mean business when you come into their dealers. They don't necessarily pamper and/or worship you unless you seem committed to buying -- on the spot or in the very immediate future. While I have had little car-buying experience in my 16 years, I have gone with my dad and uncle to various upscale dealers, and we have had consistent experiences relative to the manufacturer. The Japanese dealers have been the most pleasant to deal with, while the American dealers (luckily, we have wised up and only gone to one or two American dealers since I was old enough to be aware) have just been sleazy, and the German dealers were just obnoxious and off-putting.

This was definitely a huge factor in our car purchases. My family has established rapport and a near-friendship with our salesman over at Radley Acura in Fairfax, Virginia, while the BMW salesman remained distant and coolly unconcerned. I tagged along with my dad when I was 13 or so when he test-drove a 325i or something, and he thought it was underpowered (I, on the other hand, felt very cramped in the backseat). So, he asked to try a 330i. The guy said they didn't have any on the lot and that he would have to take us to the other lot, which happened to be only a couple miles away, to pick one up. He apparently thought this was too much trouble, and/or that we weren't gonna buy (in actuality, my dad was seriously considering it), so he made some BS excuse about not "having time" or something. Needless to say, we have not gone back to that dealer--BMW of Fairfax--since. I have heard the same things about almost all of the other BMW dealers in the area, except for one, but that's an hour or so away, and it's not that much better--just an improvement over the others.

When my uncle and I went to test-drive a Porsche, the salesman was a bit more friendly, but still very hesitant and distant. Still, he let us take it on our own and was appreciably "non-sleazy." He didn't bug us and gave us as much time as we needed, as long as we didn't spend all day out with the thing. The ones we drove were two slightly used Porsches. One was a Boxster (not sure if it was an "S" or not) and a Carrera. Needless to say, my uncle liked the Carrera a whole lot more. But, he wasn't ready to buy that day, and the salesman was a bit pissed off. He didn't understand the concept of "thinking about it," because in general, the type of people who buy Porsches and nice Mercedeses (HBL of Tyson's [Corner] is a Mercedes and Porsche dealer) don't have to really "think about it."

Anyway, my point is that German car dealers have got to drop their attitude and embrace their customer--for the customer is the source of the employees' incomes and of the success of the dealer as a whole. I think Japanese dealers have got it right. Even if you aren't going to buy immediately, they don't push you; they know that the car essentially sells itself, and that if you were seriously interested in the first place, you are probably going to buy regardless of what drivel the salesman spews out.

Germancar1

Very interesting post. I wonder how many under cover millionares they turn off with that attitude?

M

JAdmiral

Juat for what it's worth... I've been to a Lexus dealer where they were incredibly arrogant about the marque they sold. When I mentioned I was looking at M-B as well, the response I got was supposed to make me feel dumb that I even MENTIONED that brand. If anything, it drove me away from Lexus even more.

Germancar1

I think that happens at all upscale car dealers to some degree, but Lexus dealers in the Chicago area seem to be the worst. They act like they're doing you a favor by letting you see their cars. Pluuhlease.

M

vraa

All dealers suck.
Browse the forums around the world.
Find an enthusiast that works for a dealer.
Be his or her friend, buy the car through them.

That way you avoid all the b.s.

Mean-Benz

a good friend of mine once came to a mercedes dealership - in streetwear.
after some minutes of looking around he asked someone about an E220 CDI and got the answer, "The used vehicles are on the backyard."