TeutonicCarFan

From what I can tell there has not been any discussion on whether or not Audi's new S-car, the S8, can usurp the S550. I think this is a simple matter of preference, and functionality. The new S8 is a beautiful car to say the least, but the exterior beauty IMO goes to the S550. We have already discussed the Audi grille as most of us seem to think it is ugly, Audi uses it as a motif on all their cars. The inside of the S8 however has a style that I am much more interested in. I like the shifter on the floor, or inbetween the seats, it gives you much more of a cockpit-like feel. The style of the S, and also the 7series, is maybe a bit to progressive for me at this point. The deciding factor in this debate for me is the performance and also a little thing I like to call quattro. I live in Buffalo NY and the only way I am going to drive a car is if it has an AWD system. So to make things fair, we should consider the 4matic. The S8 has a v10 450hp Lambo Gallardo engine, one that the S550 can't keep up with. One may point out that S63 and S65 cars are faster than the S8, which is true, but they are also lacking AWD and they have a HUGE price difference. The S8 fully opioned out, including the new kick a$* Bang and Olufsen sound system with 14 speakers, 1100watts and motorized dash acoustic lense speakrs, will run you near 108k. This is roughly the price for a fully optioned out S550 4matic. For me the decision is a hard one, and as much as I like MB, I would have to go with the S8. Sorry guys, and I can't wait to hear your outrage, but that it what I would do. To make my garage even my summer car would be a SLK55 Kleemann

vraa

Is the RS8 coming out? Does a beast exist?

carsinamerica

Makes sense to me, given your criteria. IMO, the S8 grille is a little less objectionable than the rest of the A8 family, although the wheels are ghastly. I agree whole-heartedly about the floor console shift lever; BMW should be ashamed of themselves for abandoning it.

Have you tried, though, driving a modern RWD vehicle in heavy snow? With the combination of traction control, stability control, a limited-slip diff, and electronic brake distribution, the dynamic behaviour of the car should be miles better than anything from ye olde days of slipping and sliding RWD vehicles. 98% of the time, you should be fine. I live in Michigan, along the western shore, so we get lots of lake-effect snow. My front-driver almost never has serious trouble, as long as I feather the throttle properly, and with the TC/SC combination, a rear-driver should perform ALMOST as well, despite not being as nose-heavy. Granted, the AWD gives you that extra margin, but it's less of a huge leap forward than it used to be. If you test and find the dynamic advantage of AWD reduced or unneeded, I'd suggest you also consider an M5 or E63. Granted, they aren't as roomy (then again, the S8 is on the short-wheelbase A8 chassis), and don't have quite the same feature content levels as the top-flight class, but they're still fantastic vehicles, and both could probably run circles around the S8, de-tuned Gallardo motor or no. I think they're natural competitors to the S8. I'd also mention the BMW Alpina B7, but that's probably going to be about $130k, and limited-production, to boot. And it's still got the cabin ambience thing that you don't like about the 7er-Reihe/S-Klasse anyway. Looks fantastic on the outside, though.

However, if you've already tested that and are certain of the need for AWD, by all means do the S8. It's certainly sportier than an S550, although I don't know if the cabin trim is quite the same level as the S-Class. Then again, I've never really liked Audi interiors. If it strikes you, though, it's a great choice.

Vraa - not yet. Rumours, rumours, but nothing firm. I'm skeptical, but then again, I was doubtful about the 65 AMGs, too.

MB Fanatic

I dont think a RS8 exists. But those guys at Audi sure do have some interesting models now.

MB Fanatic

The S8 is only available as a SWB model, no LWB.

carsinamerica

That's good news. Even the short A8 is fairly roomy, and it's a driver's car. Lighter weight & shorter wheelbase = better handling and sharper acceleration. That's why I'm crossing my fingers that the BMW Alpina B7 will be SWB only, and annoyed that M-B doesn't do the SWB S-Class here, especially for the AMG model. If you want performance with limousine-like interior room, buy a V-12 flagship. If you want a peformance flagship, buy a stubby with an eight- or ten-cylinder.

TeutonicCarFan

I was unable to find whether or not there will in fact be a RS8, but I feel like there would have to be, just to keep up wiht MB. From random things I have herad here and there on the net I feel it is going to be 600hp with a beefed up W12? Here is a pic I found, I don't know the authenticity though. It looks like they picked up the a4 style tail lights?

MB Fanatic

Hey it looks like a larger A4 on crack.

Carsinamerica, please go back to your Camry and leave the luxo cruisers to those of us who can afford it. Thanks. Im sick and tired of rading your little tirades, and those things you call, essays.

GDawgC220

There are rumors of an RS6 and RS8 coming out. In Europe, they're supposedly testing an RS6 avant currently.

carsinamerica

MBFanatic, please go and boil your head. Alternatively, quit being such an elitist snob. I'm an enthusiast and a fan, and I've got as much right to post here as you. I study the industry intently, and can back up what I say with either personal experience or the professional analysis of others in the industry.

cmcjo

Anyone else try driving the newer S600 in the snow? I can tell you first hand that it may be the absolute worst vehicle to drive in the snow. The car barely moves on flat snow covered roads.

rkao

Wow...those words are harsh...

Since I can afford a luxocruiser I guess I'd be qualified to throw in my $0.02 on this topic according to MB Fanatic...

TeutonicCarFan: These are tough choices but if AWD is an absolutely necessity, I'd say go with the Audi. For me, given Audi's history with Quattro and honing the technology in some of the toughest compeitive environments, it's a no brainer.

I am in the same spot as you. My A8L has been a great car and I've driven an S8 and it's brilliant. But, I could also use something different for the next 36 months and the S550 is technologically superb and the safety engineering is something I must consider now that we have a 6 1/2 months old daughter; but I've not driven it so cannot say if I'll enjoy being behind the wheel, which is at the top of my list of criteria - and the ABC and sports package are absolute necessities for me if I go with the car, but definitely NO 4matic.

I have a dealer trying to track down an open spot for an Alpina B7 for me, if we can actually find one and the price is not the $130,000 that's been rumored, I'd be seriously tempted since I've been a BMW man for years and the A8L was my first non-BMW in 10 years.

It all comes down to personal preference and the opinions expressed on forums such as these are all personal to the individual writer - but very often I find significant points that I've not considered and they are helpful.

The flip side is of course that there are also many single minded individuals on these forums for whom an alternative equates to heresy - take it all (including my comments of course) with a grain of salt.

Carl Lassiter

I would go for the S8 ahead of the S550 4-Matic. Audi have great experience with AWD and the S8 will be a rare car. And it's got a V10 combinig high-reving hp with low down torque after Audi boared it out to 5.2 liters. The AMG models look great and are quicker than the S8 but if AWD and $$ is a concern then there's only one answer, imo.

btw...There will NOT be an RS8. RS6, on the other hand, is on it's way but don't expect to see it for at least another 6-9 months in Europe, so even longer in the U.S.

jago1244

i bought a SWB A8 a few months ago. my prior cars in order were 3 MB's (w202,w210 4matic and w211 4matic) and old style Audi S8.

on all levels i can say that Audi has pretty much caught up in fit, finish, features, and performance. hopefully longterm quality will show same. lets face it, all germans experienced lots of bugs as hi-tech was brought in too quickly.

this Audi has none of the irritating qualities of the w211 and makes the w220 and the old S8 feel like a boat. i feel the newer A8 is a big jump from the old model in all categories.

i admit i havent driven the w221 and i dont hate it, or MB, but it aint my cup of tea, esp considering price.

MB Fanatic

A recent AutoBild? test has shown the S550 4Matic to outperform the A8. You can get a link to Autospies I believe. The only thing the Audi did well was in the handling department.

carsinamerica

True, but R&T and MT have both shown that the S8 easily outperforms the S550 in acceleration, braking, and handling. It makes for an interesting comparison; TeutonicCarFan is on to something.

AMEN. Seconded.

Taurian

Ok, for those of you who remember, I posted several posts regarding my decision to lease the S8...and then finally, at the last minute, went for a S550 Designo.

My brother in law just took delivery of his S8...and my sister has the S4. His car, fully equiped, is around $2,700 per month. My Designo is $1999. Both have zero down, and are in Nassau County NY. My residual is 62...his is 52!!!!! What does that tell you?

As far as the car is concerned...he doesn't feel it's worth the $1,000 extra from the A8. Yes, it's fast as hell...but can't hold a candle to the MB from a design and luxury point of view. The interior in the S8 is like a nice Jetta. For $100K+, it better feel like a luxury car. Now, I was all over the S8 in the beginning...but thankfully I took my time.

AsianML

I love the S8 overall better than the S550 4Matic. There's just something about it that keeps me crawling back to it whenever I compare the two. Maybe it's the Quattro, maybe it's the big grille that screams "get out of the way or I'll eat you," or maybe it's the floor console shifter. You can't beat the Lamborghini V10 either (keep the V12 comments to yourself). carsinamerica where in MI are you? Winters here are pretty harsh with the lake effect, and you're right about all the new technology keeping a RWD car under control, but I just feel so much better behind the wheel of an AWD car on those heavy snow days or icy conditions. I also feel much better knowing that my mom is safe(r).

carsinamerica

West coast, too, 'round the middle, just like you, I guess. Small world. That's right on the storm track from Chicago, and up to 120" of snow a year, for those of you from more hospitable climes (or at least we used to, before the last few winters showed the effects of that pesky, non-existent global warming). I do have to admit that once in a while it gets a little bit too icky for me, and there are usually 1-3 days every winter when I just won't risk driving. Maybe I'd feel safer with an AWD car, although I usually feel pretty secure in a front-driver. The techno aids help a lot, but it's still just as much a matter of technique as mechanical interventions, I think, which is why some, kids especially, get themselves into trouble despite all the technology in the world. Having driven a variety of configs, though, I do still buy into the RWD < FWD < AWD rule for winter driving, all technology aside. And even AWD has limits in ice storms.

Love your description of the S8 grille, btw. And you're right about the V-10 power & floor shifters, although I suppose that turbocharged or supercharged eights are acceptable in a pinch.

MB Fanatic

Why are you comparing a S8 to an S550. Why dont you compare an S550 to an A8L? Obviously the S8 is going to handle better, have better acceleration, and braking since its designed to try and compete with AMG in a weird sort of way.

carsinamerica

I'm comparing the S8 to the S550 because that's why TeutonicCarFan STARTED THE THREAD. The first two sentences: "From what I can tell there has not been any discussion on whether or not Audi's new S-car, the S8, can usurp the S550. I think this is a simple matter of preference, and functionality." See?

And of course the S8 is primarily a rival to the B7/XJR/S63. I'm not stupid, so a little less of the , etc., if you don't mind. The point to which Teutonic draws our attention is that the S8 is only about 4% more expensive than a S550V4, and while there are trade-offs for each, they thus make an interesting pair of cars to contrast, despite their somewhat disparate market orientations.

Even loaded to the gills, an S8 comes in at $112,485, which is still likely to be at or lower than the starting price for an S63 AMG, and is priced only slightly above the S550 4Matic, and you're getting a more powerful car in the bargain (albeit with 4 fewer cubes in the rear due to the SWB of the S8). This makes it interesting to compare them, you see. They're pretty comparable, with each having some unique gizmos. So styling, driving dynamics, and simple individual preferences become the key frames to the discussion.

I'm sorry to be brusque, MBFanatic, but I'm getting a little tired of your scorn, so I have to ask: do you read anything people say before you climb onto your patrician column to hurl derision at them? Just curious. I'm not trolling for a fight, just a little peeved. It's possible to disagree without being abusive and snide; NevadaJack and I do it all the time.

And I do apologise (to anyone other than MBFanatic) for the sometimes lengthy posts. Years of writing political-science treatises (and the occasional marketing analysis for exotic marques) tends to have this sort of effect. Just be glad I decided against law school. But enough of the

Performance figures (all from Road & Track):

Audi A8 L 4.2 quattro: 6.3 sec. (0-60 mph), 137 feet (60-0 mph), 0.82 g. Starts at $72,900.
Benz S550V (RWD): 5.7 sec., 130 feet, 0.80 g. 4Matic starts at $88,750.
Audi S8: 4.7 sec., 112 feet, 0.90 g. Starts at $92,000.

Very interesting stuff.

rkao

From a pricing point of view, it's not such an unreasonable comparison.

I've compared the S550 and the S8 based on online configuration tools (which admittedly can be outrageously inaccurate), the MSRP do not seem to differ by very much with the options I'm interested in.

However, based on initial conversations with my local dealers, the MB dealer seems willing to negotiate and provide a discount to order to my specs for the S550 and possibly even the E63 AMG; whereas the Audi dealer is still singing the MSRP tune, at least for now.

From a performance POV, the S8 is probably a better comparison for the S63, which my dealer has told me won't be available Stateside 'til July '07 - seems a bit far out to me IMHO.

TeutonicCarFan

This is a tough comparison to make, because based on price point the S8 can easily be comparable to a S550 with the options that most people get (who buys the 'starting at' MSRP?). However, as stated the S8, as far as the market segment it represents and irrespective of price, should be compared to an AMG car. This is probably why the dealer will not move on the S8 pricing, because it will be in low, AMG-like, supply. So if you want a discount on an A8 style vehicle you will have to go with an A8L, because being their non-tuned version you will most likely be able to get some bargaining room. IMO the S550 is much MUCH more an automobile of uber saloon status than the A8L. My initial interest was in regards to a comparison between the 550 4matic and the S8 because they have a similar price point and they are both all wheel drive. AWD is necessary in my climate and that is why I brought up these comfigurations. As far as the answer between the S8 and 4matic, there is no definitive I am right you are wrong analysis that can result. It is all prefernece on styling, driving style, perhaps market saturation, and your gut feelings.
Audi has made it hard to make these comparisons. We want to say, 'lets compare the entry level (by no means am I using entry as a synonym for cheap, just differentiating the model lines) sedans. Ok, A8L vs S550. As for the testosterone saloons, how about the S63 and the S8.' We can't do this however because the S550 with the normal options ends up in the same price as the S8, thus mudding up the waters.
In conclusions I find you must find your point of view and go from there. For performance I would take the S8 over the 550 at similar priced vehicles. From a luxury point of view I would go with the S550 (designo espresso ). From a, pioneer/leader of innovation, point of view I would go with the 550.

Germancar1

I love Mercedes, but I can easily see the appeal of the S8 too. It is a awesome car in its own right. The interior, AWD, B&O sound system, and the whole look are just awesome. The A8 in general is the only other large sedan I'd consider over an S-Class and at the price points talked about here it would be the S8, why not if the price is so similar. I'd have a CL and a S8, dilema solved!

M

TeutonicCarFan

My sentiments exactly (CL 600 )