Ferrari or S600
#76
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2008 S63 w/perf. pack, 2002 Ferrari 360 F1 spider , 2007 Cadillac Escalade ESV (my Limo)
I'm far from mad. I paid less for a new S65 than many have paid for an S55 and way less than anyone will pay for an S63. Note that mine is a W220 and they are the bargains of the century in my opinion.
The posted numbers for all the 65s are very conservative. Anyone who owns one knows that. The rumored reason is to not embarrass the SLR, but I have no idea if that's the case.
Only someone who has never driven one would compare it with a 63. (The 600 comparison is a bit more sensible, but that's not really my topic.) The 0-60 time is really irrelevant. The difference is in the effortless delivery of power at any RPMs. You want to get a 65 to move, you tap the throttle. At any speed. You want to get a 63 to move, you floor it and downshift a couple of gears and wait a split second for the engine to scream.
The posted numbers for all the 65s are very conservative. Anyone who owns one knows that. The rumored reason is to not embarrass the SLR, but I have no idea if that's the case.
Only someone who has never driven one would compare it with a 63. (The 600 comparison is a bit more sensible, but that's not really my topic.) The 0-60 time is really irrelevant. The difference is in the effortless delivery of power at any RPMs. You want to get a 65 to move, you tap the throttle. At any speed. You want to get a 63 to move, you floor it and downshift a couple of gears and wait a split second for the engine to scream.
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
#77
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2008 S63 w/perf. pack, 2002 Ferrari 360 F1 spider , 2007 Cadillac Escalade ESV (my Limo)
Wow, this is interesting... I guess Mercedes is going to have 2 AMG's in the line-up. A S63 and a S65. Personally, I'm lost.
S550 -$86,000
Engine: 5.5 V8
Power: 382 HP, 391 Torque
0-60mph: 5.4 sec.
Comments: Offers AMG Body styling - like the S63, not S65.
S600 - $140,000
Engine: 6.0 V12
Power: 510 HP, 612 Torque
0-60mph: 4.5 sec.
Comments: Doesn't offer AMG Body styling.
S65 - $182,000
Engine: 6.0 V12 Turbo
Power: 604 HP, 738 Torque
0-60mph: 4.2 sec.
Comments: For probably $30K less, you can have a S600 or S63 with almost the same performance and more luxury (in the S600 case).
S63 - $unknown
Engine: 6.2 V8
Power: 518HP, 465 Torque
0-60mph: 4.6 sec.
Comments: A cheaper S65 and almost the same performance! Looks almost identical.
I don't know -- what is Mercedes doing?? Does this make sense -- to me it looks like the S65 is less and less desirable.
Tee_Tz.
S550 -$86,000
Engine: 5.5 V8
Power: 382 HP, 391 Torque
0-60mph: 5.4 sec.
Comments: Offers AMG Body styling - like the S63, not S65.
S600 - $140,000
Engine: 6.0 V12
Power: 510 HP, 612 Torque
0-60mph: 4.5 sec.
Comments: Doesn't offer AMG Body styling.
S65 - $182,000
Engine: 6.0 V12 Turbo
Power: 604 HP, 738 Torque
0-60mph: 4.2 sec.
Comments: For probably $30K less, you can have a S600 or S63 with almost the same performance and more luxury (in the S600 case).
S63 - $unknown
Engine: 6.2 V8
Power: 518HP, 465 Torque
0-60mph: 4.6 sec.
Comments: A cheaper S65 and almost the same performance! Looks almost identical.
I don't know -- what is Mercedes doing?? Does this make sense -- to me it looks like the S65 is less and less desirable.
Tee_Tz.
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
Last edited by xecution; 02-16-2007 at 12:58 AM.
#78
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2008 S63 w/perf. pack, 2002 Ferrari 360 F1 spider , 2007 Cadillac Escalade ESV (my Limo)
You're overthinking this. Clearly you're not in marketing
. (By the way, in Europe there are way more models so our confusion is relatively mild.)
There's a base V-8 model (S550) and an upscale V-12 (S600). The S600 adds luxury and the V-12 driving experience, which is about effortless power delivery more than 0-60. The typical S600 driver doesn't drag, but likes being able to pass without exercising his right ankle too much. It's part of the luxury cachet, along with the baby-butt leather and wood. The S550 has adequate power, but the relative vibration of the V-8 at revs is the motor equivalent of the plastic trim and leatherette.
Both of these models come in AMG-tuned variants. Their characters aren't changed, just enhanced. You can't think of them as a single continuum -- they are two versions each of two models. It's a branched tree, not a road. The S65 has the baby-butt leather and wood, and even more of the effortless power. It also has an undetectable idle. But it happens to be able to spank all the other models. By how much isn't really important. The tap-the-gas responsiveness of the V-12 is more important because this car is part of the V-12 branch.
If someone finds the V-12 experience to be as amazing as I do, you consider the S600 and the S65 if you think the money is worth another 100+ ft-lbs, bigger brakes and better handling. If you're happy with the V-8 experience you consider the S550 and the S63 if you're into the extra power and handling. (An ABC-equipped S550 with sport package is closer in driving experience to an S63 than an S63 is to either V12.)
I personally would go with the ABC/Sport S550 or S600 or S65, depending on what I could afford. I'm not the only one to think the S63 will be a hard sell. And I drove (and loved) an S55 for three years before I traded it for the S65.
The bottom line is that there are multiple decision drivers, and the relative importance to the customer makes the choice less confounding than it would be if you tried to line the models up in a hierarchy.
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
There's a base V-8 model (S550) and an upscale V-12 (S600). The S600 adds luxury and the V-12 driving experience, which is about effortless power delivery more than 0-60. The typical S600 driver doesn't drag, but likes being able to pass without exercising his right ankle too much. It's part of the luxury cachet, along with the baby-butt leather and wood. The S550 has adequate power, but the relative vibration of the V-8 at revs is the motor equivalent of the plastic trim and leatherette.
Both of these models come in AMG-tuned variants. Their characters aren't changed, just enhanced. You can't think of them as a single continuum -- they are two versions each of two models. It's a branched tree, not a road. The S65 has the baby-butt leather and wood, and even more of the effortless power. It also has an undetectable idle. But it happens to be able to spank all the other models. By how much isn't really important. The tap-the-gas responsiveness of the V-12 is more important because this car is part of the V-12 branch.
If someone finds the V-12 experience to be as amazing as I do, you consider the S600 and the S65 if you think the money is worth another 100+ ft-lbs, bigger brakes and better handling. If you're happy with the V-8 experience you consider the S550 and the S63 if you're into the extra power and handling. (An ABC-equipped S550 with sport package is closer in driving experience to an S63 than an S63 is to either V12.)
I personally would go with the ABC/Sport S550 or S600 or S65, depending on what I could afford. I'm not the only one to think the S63 will be a hard sell. And I drove (and loved) an S55 for three years before I traded it for the S65.
The bottom line is that there are multiple decision drivers, and the relative importance to the customer makes the choice less confounding than it would be if you tried to line the models up in a hierarchy.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#79
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Okay, it starts making sense now...
The S550 is the new S500. The S63 is the new S55. The S600, unchanged. And the S65 is the ultimate, but really a sportier and more powerful version of the S600 not the S63.
Hmm, so for performance sake it seems like the V12's are just superior. I guess price does play a factor, people will immediately see the S63 as a cheaper option to the S65; and the S550 as a cheaper option to the S600.
Nope, not in marketing -- software development. But I'm still in my early 20's so if software development doesn't show me signs of S65's then I've got time to change paths!
Tee_Tz.
The S550 is the new S500. The S63 is the new S55. The S600, unchanged. And the S65 is the ultimate, but really a sportier and more powerful version of the S600 not the S63.
Hmm, so for performance sake it seems like the V12's are just superior. I guess price does play a factor, people will immediately see the S63 as a cheaper option to the S65; and the S550 as a cheaper option to the S600.
Nope, not in marketing -- software development. But I'm still in my early 20's so if software development doesn't show me signs of S65's then I've got time to change paths!
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Tee_Tz.
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2008 S63 w/perf. pack, 2002 Ferrari 360 F1 spider , 2007 Cadillac Escalade ESV (my Limo)
Okay, it starts making sense now...
The S550 is the new S500. The S63 is the new S55. The S600, unchanged. And the S65 is the ultimate, but really a sportier and more powerful version of the S600 not the S63.
Hmm, so for performance sake it seems like the V12's are just superior. I guess price does play a factor, people will immediately see the S63 as a cheaper option to the S65; and the S550 as a cheaper option to the S600.
Nope, not in marketing -- software development. But I'm still in my early 20's so if software development doesn't show me signs of S65's then I've got time to change paths!
Tee_Tz.
The S550 is the new S500. The S63 is the new S55. The S600, unchanged. And the S65 is the ultimate, but really a sportier and more powerful version of the S600 not the S63.
Hmm, so for performance sake it seems like the V12's are just superior. I guess price does play a factor, people will immediately see the S63 as a cheaper option to the S65; and the S550 as a cheaper option to the S600.
Nope, not in marketing -- software development. But I'm still in my early 20's so if software development doesn't show me signs of S65's then I've got time to change paths!
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Tee_Tz.
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
#81
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Wow, you've owned a lot of cars. What's the fastest/best performance car you've driven? - If you can rank them. It's interesting because as you said, while the Viper on paper was faster than the Ferrari, the Ferrari seemed faster.
Tee_Tz.
Tee_Tz.
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2008 S63 w/perf. pack, 2002 Ferrari 360 F1 spider , 2007 Cadillac Escalade ESV (my Limo)
#1. I would have to say the 2003 porsche 911 turbo with the Autothority stage 2 upgrade package, Baily Motorsports diverter valves and B&M Shortshifter. The upgrades made it scary fast.
![bow](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bowdown.gif)
#2. I would have to say the Ferrari 360 was a tie with the 2007 S600 only because I will admit the Ferrari inspired more spirited driving ( you could easily do 130-140 in the Ferrari and not have a clue you are going that fast.)
![naughty](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif)
#3 Viper, although it posts fast numbers, for a person who isn't a race car driver, It feels like you are driving the mac truck of all sports cars (especially compared to the Ferrari.) If you plan on switching lanes in a Viper at top speed you better be careful.
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
Older models I have owned don't really compare to the new ones( S55, Cl600. Porsche Cayman S great handling but rather slow, took it back in 2 months
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
This is all In my opinion.
My number one drivers/speed car - Ferrari
![drive](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/driving.gif)
My number one all around car - S600
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#83
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
I also find a new S600 much more appealing than a 360. Dollar for dollar, I also find the S600 of better value than the S65.
All this talk about the effortless power makes me want to upgrade my good handling but a little slow BMW 750Li.
One question, with the S600, can one order the piano black wood trim like in the BMW Individual program? I'm a sucker for light cream interior and piano black trim.
I think I saw a Neiman Marcus edition S600 with the lovely piano black trim but am uncertain if it's something one can order via designo. It has the super light seats with black carpet.
All this talk about the effortless power makes me want to upgrade my good handling but a little slow BMW 750Li.
One question, with the S600, can one order the piano black wood trim like in the BMW Individual program? I'm a sucker for light cream interior and piano black trim.
I think I saw a Neiman Marcus edition S600 with the lovely piano black trim but am uncertain if it's something one can order via designo. It has the super light seats with black carpet.
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is a German Tank
Was that you I was behind on Newbury street in your silver XLR-V??
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Yes
I also find a new S600 much more appealing than a 360. Dollar for dollar, I also find the S600 of better value than the S65.
All this talk about the effortless power makes me want to upgrade my good handling but a little slow BMW 750Li.
One question, with the S600, can one order the piano black wood trim like in the BMW Individual program? I'm a sucker for light cream interior and piano black trim.
I think I saw a Neiman Marcus edition S600 with the lovely piano black trim but am uncertain if it's something one can order via designo. It has the super light seats with black carpet.
All this talk about the effortless power makes me want to upgrade my good handling but a little slow BMW 750Li.
One question, with the S600, can one order the piano black wood trim like in the BMW Individual program? I'm a sucker for light cream interior and piano black trim.
I think I saw a Neiman Marcus edition S600 with the lovely piano black trim but am uncertain if it's something one can order via designo. It has the super light seats with black carpet.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#86
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2008 S63 w/perf. pack, 2002 Ferrari 360 F1 spider , 2007 Cadillac Escalade ESV (my Limo)
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
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OLD: 2004 C230 Sport Sedan, NEW: 2007 SLK350
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2008 S63 w/perf. pack, 2002 Ferrari 360 F1 spider , 2007 Cadillac Escalade ESV (my Limo)