Jblackbelt

So a few months ago I posted here asking opinions on the SL to replace our GX 470. We decided to take the SUV route again as the honda pilot is up at college, and replace the GX 470 with an RX 400h. Now my car a 2006 BMW 750Li comes due July 31st and I am in between another flagship and a sporty convertible. This car is used to go 62 miles each way to work, 3 days a week, and also frequent trips into NYC usually on the other 2 days. Here are my choices, please weigh in on what you think.

MB
S 550
SL 550

BMW
750Li
650i convertible

Lexus
LS 460L (might consider the 600hL depending on when its released)

Audi
A8L

Porsche
911 Carrera 4

What are your thoughts?

MrBenz55

I'd go for the S or the SL but it depends on weather u need such a large car or not, if u dont then get the SL it will me more fun and still very comfy !

Jblackbelt

thanks for the input, the big car is not much of an issue for me any more. if i get the S it will be a 4-matic since I live in NJ. I love the driving of my 7, but I must admit the interior is very cheap looking. I'll be test driving the cars in March or maybe April, but I'd like to et everyones thoughts of those who driven the cars. I haven't decided if I want the sports car yet, I'm really looking at opinions of the cars individually, driving dynamics, luxury, technology, driving in the snow (im aware the sports cars dont cover that), ride quality, anything you can think of whether its the ambient light feature on the benz or the ride quality on the porsche. anything and everything you can give me I'd appreciate.

thx

Doctodd33

think about safety?.....i traded in my x5 which i loved for my new S550. I feel safe in a big car and loved the better point of view on the X5, but it isnt too bad with the new S.

The bluetooth phone setup is great, although lots of cars have it now. I think it is law in NY, but not in FLorida. It pains me to see every other car with someone talking on a cell phone up to their ear.

If it would have had a Bose stereo i wouldnt have bought it. The current sound system is a big step up from my previous cars.

As for creature comforts, the SIRIUS is great...the massaging seats are priceless after a hard days work....it is beautiful to look at(only had it 2 months though). The power is fine....382 is plenty. The gas mileage is awesome for such a big car.

Im sure there is lots more.....drive them and read the message boards.

T

Jblackbelt

my requirments are bluetooth cause phone is always on, run flat tires as i am travelling 120 miles at least 3 days a week, and if i go to visit my son at college thats 400 miles, and a blowout is not the thing to get.
Im sure there is lots more.....drive them and read the message boards. i would continue my sirius, but i am sort of used to the sirius and massaging seats as a standard. the thing i love is the back adjustment on the 7 series seat. its not a must but i do love it as it gives my head support. other than that there really isnt anything that really stands out to me, really im just looking for thoughts on anybody that owns or drives these cars. my last 3 cars have been 7 series. the car before that was the first S430 of the new body style (2000 model, i got in 1999) from mercedes manhattan, who told me i had the first one on the east coast. so the 7 i know well, im looking more for information on the other cars. i do about 25k a year in mileage.

Jagsnc

The S as everyone has said drives excellent and has great power the SL is also very comfortable and is very fun to drive but i am more familiar with the AMG. I would not go with the Porsche as they are a fun car to drive but driving that far they will beat you up there suspension is very stiff so you feel more bumps in the road.

Soon2bMB

i would go with the S550, because its more horsepower and torque than the 750, plus it has more options and is more advanced, and i loved porsche so i would say the C4 or even the C4S. I love the sound of a Porsche engine!!! Plus Porsche are very unique, no two are alike.

Jblackbelt

Jagsnc you hit my concern with the porsche right on the money, im concerned that the drive will be the death of me with the suspension.

how does the S and 7 fair against the LS and A8?

Florida Joe

I can't comment on the S but I have an 2003 SL 500 R230 (New body style). I love the car. Have had minimal problems. Probably less than 4 trips to the dealer in 4 years for items other than an A or B service.

I would sit in it and make sure you feel comfortable. The car can be tight depending upon your height and weight but for me it has been a great car.

My family has grown so I have ordered a CL550. I am going to miss the SL.

rkao

Jblackbelt, I'll share some thoughts as I: 1) also live in NJ (Wyckoff) and work in Manhattan so take frequent trips into the city (though I try to commute on NJ Transit as much as possible); and 2) have owned/driven/leased 5 of the 7 cars on your list. But I'll apologize in advance if the post is a bit long.

I traded an '04 SL500 with the sports package in when I ordered the S550 because it was no longer practical after the birth of our first child last April. The SL was a great car and despite some of the technical issues, I really enjoyed my 3 years with it - sold an '01 Boxster S for it. The SL is a great combination of a sporting (though it's no sports car) and comfortable GT and a solid open roadster. If it was a car that was just for me or +1 passenger, then I'd have no qualms about using it on a daily basis, just slap a set of snow tires on it in the wintry months. Being the SL500, it was comfortably quick and relatively agile for a car of its weight but in retrospect the SL55 would've probably suited my need for speed more . But with the SL550, the bigger engine will have moved the yardstick that much further from the SL500 in the power department.

I chose the S550 after having had an A8L on lease since 10/03 (ends in April) and am very happy with my choice, even if the ordering process was a 2 month ordeal (you can look up threads on this well worn topic in this forum) and meant I compromised slightly by getting the 4matic.

The A8L has been a great car, and unlike many other owners I've experienced very little problems with it even though it's a car with an earlier VIN. It has been a very good daily driver and the Quattro system coupled with 4 snow tires means that it's incredibly secure in inclement weather on streets and highways - even after the 27" snow storm we had last February. I was also very fortunate that my local dealer (Jack Daniels - no really, that's a real person) has been great through the sales and service experience and it convinced my brother to switch from a Mercedes (C32 AMG) to a new Audi S6 3 months ago. But I wanted something new so chose to look at the S8 instead, but when we worked out the lease numbers for an S8, they were just horrendous in comparison to the S550's numbers in terms of the MF and residual - so no Audi for me this time. And the A8L is definitely noticeably underpowered compared to the W221 S550.

I also took a close look the 750Li, and being a big fan of BMW (had 5 BMWs in a row before the Audi and still have a '99 M3 track car and am an avid member/instructor with the club), I was really hoping that the improvements over the 745Li (the reason I chose the A8L 3+ years ago) meant there would be a BMW in our garage again after an absence - but alas no. My parents coincidentally leased a 750Li in November so I had the chance to borrow it for 2 weeks while they were away to do some direct comparisons with both the A8L and the S550 on my test drives. The E66 750Li drives like a BMW, direct steering and feedback and very secure handling and braking, but the iDrive just drove me bloody bananas! The entire system is unintuitive to me and while I could adapt to it to get the functions, most of the logic of the user interface design just escapes me. And I am of the digital generation (born 1971) and worked in the IT industry for many years so am not technology illiterate, but probably means I have more of an opinion about the UI design than others. I so wanted to like the 750Li! I even considered an M5 (test drove an M6...glorious motor that V10) but the problems with the SMG II and the intro of the '08 model for March production and May/June delivery meant timing just wasn't right.

So I looked at Mercedes and test drove both the S550 and the E63 AMG. The E63 is a design that is aging, in terms of both its interior and exterior, and while the AMG engine was mighty, I wanted the updated COMAND interface. The S550 at once felt very secure and though not as sporting as the 750Li, its handling was nevertheless commendable given its girth and without sacrificing the comfort of the ride. I did, admittedly, have some misgivings about driving the S-class before the age of 40 but managed to overcome it once I saw the car with the AMG sport package And with the comfort of the large backseat a'la the A8L, I placed an order originally for a RWD with the ABC option, but changed it to the 4matic with almost every options that I wanted - or at least the options that MBUSA would allow me the privilege of ordering!

Now we come to the 911. I've driven the 997S and LOVE it! I actually had planned to trade the SL500 for the S550, and then order a 911S in the spring as I miss having a P-car after the aforementioned Boxster S and a thoroughly massaged 944 Turbo for the track. But the rumours of a mid model cycle update coming later this year put the kibosh on that plan for now. The 997 rides stiffly, no doubt, and with your requirement to drive on the streets of Manhattan, I don't know if I would punish both the driver and the car on a regular basis like this.

So, if you don't need to be concerned with passengers too often, I think the SL550 would make a great daily driver with its small size and higher agility (read: fun factor). But if the extra set of doors and a comfortable backseat are requirements, then the S550 or the A8L are great candidates to consider.

Jblackbelt

i appreciate the long post, no need to appologize. i love my 750Li, and i had a 745Li before that, and a 740il before that, and I am getting bored with it now. With my son being off at college, and my wife with the bad back, I decided that I can once again get a convertible (owned an SL in the 80s). Even with my son home, the three of us are rarely in the car, and if that sceniro comes I figured (if i dont get a 650i) that we can either take one of the SUV's or take two cars. Most of the time my ride consists of a 62 mile drive each way from my home to westchester, ny which primarily takes 287 and the NY thruway over the tapanzee bridge. I do that 3 days a week. I figured if we have clients, taking the presidents car instead of ceo's car wouldnt be a big deal, he drives an infiniti m45. I am slowly considering adding a quattroporte to the mix as it combines sport with the big car, its just not a convertible.

I do have a question for you though. Did you test drive the LS?

and thx for the information it is greatly appreciated

Soon2bMB

I haven't drove the LS, but i found this on the internet and thought it was pretty funny, check it out. It is about the park assist.

http://www.fquick.com/videos/viewvideo.php?id=520

xecution

Why not go with the best of all worlds, sporty, comfy, and safe. I guess I am biased because I just bought and S600, I previously owned an s550 but since I am used to sports cars i wanted a little more power. I have also owned a BMW 745 and a 645 convertible,and I must admit, it is more of a drivers car than the Merc, but the quality of the Mercedes is so much better than in years past ( previous mercedes- CL600, s55 AMG, Clk 430) hopefully you don't take this personal, but I find that the BMW is a step below the Merc (IMO) If money isn't a problem go with the S600 or S550 and buy a peice of crap 4 wheel drive for snowy days in which in New England we have had none of this year

Jblackbelt

as good as of a solution as that is, i dont want a piece of crap to drive, as it is now, i usually take my wifes car when its that bad out. the s600 is nice and i like it but i cant use its power here on the roads. and for power i cant use, id have to pay the extra money for the lease out of pocket, and i dont feel that its worth that, as its not as practical. as for bmw vs. mb i think bmw has one up on the driving but mb has one up on design, cuz the interior of my 7 absolutely sucks.

i appreciate your opinion though

Soon2bMB haha that was funny

02S430

id go with the s550, if my s430 is this comfortable i can only imagine the s550, good luck with which ever you pick

WSH

Would highly recomm S or CL600...or better yet, S/CL63....

Curr have CL600; will trade for CL63 upon launch; had CL550 and S550 in past (and SL65 and 55)....and had 997TT and 997S in past....(Driving latest-tech new cars is one of my passions, whether stuck in urban commute traffic or on a twisty mtn road )....

Would argue new S and CL platforms are prob safest cars on road today, given their remarkable active/passive safety technologies and innovations.....not sure BMW has ever been known for class-leading safety....and Audi's comparable platforms (though fairly competent-seeming) seem a bit dated in terms of safety technologies....997 Coupe is prob fairly safe, but I have my doubts about how any car like 997TT/SL (both have identical ride ht and SL has a compromised folding roof struc) that sits so low on the ground protects one's head vs an SUV in any collision, esp frontal/side.... .have never seen reliable hard data re: any of these cars' relative safety in real-world driving situations....so one prob needs to do own common-sense eval of engineering thought/execution that each mfr seems to apply to its flagship cars....

Importantly, from own expce (and from anecdotal data from pals), seems that the bleeding-edge tech S/CL platforms are remarkably bug-free and reliable.....anecdotal data re: Audi/BMW doesn't seem to indicate similar reliability lvls w/motors, trannies and various computer systems....P is about as reliable as S/CL......

IMO, interior elegance/ergonomics/comfort/utility of S/CL are simply unrivaled; P fails as commuter car as its <18gall fuel tank and glovebox-sized trunk make fuel stops too freq and even picking up wkly dry cleaning (w/o crumpling clothes) a challenge (and putting unsecured stuff in the rear part of the passenger compartment is moronic from a safety standpoint).

May want to drive S (w/ABC)/CL on a twisty road.....you may be surprised by the chassis balance vs allegedly more driver-focused GT cars....if 550/600 are any indication, I suspect S/CL63 will be much better-balanced, more enjoyable cars than many comparable GT cars....

Would opt for 600 over 550 b/c 600's mid-range tq advantage would be rather noticeable (even in civilized accel bursts on congested NYC region fwys)....and 600's brakes/brake pedal feel are notably better than 550. Also, 600's leather finish and Alcantara headliner completes the interior much better than 550's more lame leather and cloth headliner....

600 has brutal deprec, but new ones are disctd $5Kish and 27 mo leases "lock-in" one's deprec exposure (and ins lease gap cvg is advantageous in any theft/collision situations), before rolling into the next car....

Jblackbelt

on all the cars but the benz i will do a 24month/50k lease. the benz i will do 27/50k. if i get the benz i would definately get the 4matic, thats more important to me then getting the extra power. i dont understand what you mean by "P." could you please elaborate on this?

as beautiful as the CL looks, if i get a sports car I'd like a convertible.

eddietr

I think he was talking about the P-car.

So I just made the same decision you are making. I chose the S550 (RWD with ABC) after the Mercedes dealer was finally able to order a car which comes pretty close to what I wanted. At one point I had given up and ordered a 750Li, which was obviously my second choice.

Couple of quick comments:

I test drove the LS460L when I was first looking around. I wanted to like it, and I was even convinced after sitting in it and reviewing all the cool new features. My "head" definitely wanted the reliability, service, etc. But a test drive cured that thought in about 5 minutes. The driving dynamics of the car are a big improvement over the previous LS, but still nowhere close to the 7-series or S-class, in my opinion. Not even close. I asked my wife how it was in the backseat on the test drive. Her response: "Sea sick. Let's go home." Pretty much sums it up.

On the 997: Definitely agree it's not a practical commuter car, even 3 days a week. I love my 996GT3, but wouldn't want to have to use it as a car (as opposed to a toy, which is what it is for me.) But if you are going to look at one, I would test drive the C2(S) and C4 back to back. Personally, I like the RWD car much better. (Unless you really think you're going to drive her in the snow and risk some idiot plowing into that work of art.) And of course, Porsche service is great and they will make your car however you like it. ("Blue polka dots on a CF interior with red cat fur? No problem, sir.") Whereas with Mercedes you may need a UN security council resolution just to get a car with exactly the options you want (See the threads rkao referred to.) Plus, you will never drive a car with more wonderful steering feel than a 997 (until the next 911)

So leaving aside the P-car (which has a special place in my heart, like most P-car owners), I personally think the S550 is a much better all around car (handling, performance, looks, luxury) than the other sedan choices.

Jblackbelt

ive never heard of the P-car. no matter what car i get, it will be my daily driver. that is officially decided. i cant justify a 4th car, when the 2nd one barely gets driven because of my wifes back problem. also i dont want to worry about having to deal with another car, more insurance, more money, its just not what i want or need. but i wouldnt mind a sports car.


i agree with you on the 460, although i havent tested it yet, the drive these days is more important to me than the reliability. if i wasnt driving 120 miles 3 days a week i would put reliability ahead, but with that long drive, the driving of the car is very important.

xraes

Great comparison posts, I don't have much to add other than my brief experience. I've only had my S550 for a week but:
1. Test drove the Lexus which to me, drove like it looks, very bland and uninspired.
2. No experience with Audi, sorry.
3. Own an '03 C4 cab. and thought about going with 997 TT. Awesome cars, easy to custom order, "unique", etc. however, I wanted something my wife would enjoy driving, kids could climb in the back, and yet was still fun to drive. As said, P-cars have no substitute but I know I wouldn't enjoy long commutes for long and it is nice to have room for golf clubs, dry cleaning etc.
4. Last daily driver was a 645C and I've owned one 7 series a few years ago, both were solid cars. I looked at the 745 but, despite the "personalized" options, liked the S550 body style more and have never owned a high end MB until now.
So, I went with S550 designo mocha black, loaded. My wife and I took a short road trip and the drive is awesome. Plenty of horsepower for my daily drive to work and the distronic was a great surprise. Command system is a breeze, nav. is at least as good as my 645, and the ride is pure comfort. If you're considering the 550, at least look at the designo. The interior is absolutely the classiest I've seen, driven or ridden in, including the Continental GT. The AMG package is sporty enough for what I was looking for, but if needed, go with the 600! Still on the honeymoon, but what a great car. Good luck in your search.

rkao

I bet your 62 mile drive to work takes shorter time than the 25 miles to my office in midtown Manhattan! Darn GWB and West Side Highway...

I've never test driven the LS, never even considered.

Since my very first German car, a '93 VW Corrado VR6, I've never driven anything else for my daily driver. Our choice of the Lexus was almost by default as my wife preferred the X5 (lower towing capacity and smaller rear seat/storage area than the LX) or the Porsche Cayenne S (uncomfortable seat and smaller rear seat/storage area). My impression of Lexus before the LX were based on my father's two successive LS400s when they were new, it was a '92 and a '95 (and incredibly, the same colour was chosen by him!). They were comfortable and the Nakamichi sound system was fabulous, but relatively soulless compared to the BMW E32 735iL that he had test driven at that time. And the Lexus has only reinforced the impression: well made, reliable, great dealer sales and service experiences, but unexciting and soulless to drive. So I never considered the LS - admittedly on paper a great engineering achievement.

The Quattroporte is a great car, exactly opposite of the LS - full of soul, though probably on the other end of the scale in terms of quality and reliability. I briefly considered one and spoke at length with a rep while giving the car a detailed once over at the NY Auto Show last April, but with the nearest dealer in Edison more than 45 minutes away and the research I did on maseratilife.com, I came to the conclusion that it's one temperamental car I don't need to go near with a ten foot pole. Now, if the car in question was a Ferrari F430 or the 599 GTB then I'd overlook the temperamental qualities!

Jblackbelt

haha i wouldnt say that. it took 4hrs and 10min once to get to work, other times it takes me 2-3hrs. if im lucky i get there in an hour 15. i used to do the manhattan trip so i know what its like.

i know the 90 LS's very well i had a 90 ls, a 92, a 94, which was going to be lemoned but they gave me a 95 instead for free. then in 97 i got a 740il and then i got the first S430 of the new bodystyle to reach the east coast. in 01 i got a 740il 03 745li 06 750li and that leads me to my next car. i ahve a quattroporte dealer by my office and im 30min from my house to the one in edison. but i agree its very tempermental.

xraes thanks for your input, and good luck with your new car. does the 6 really ride like the 7 or S class?

xraes

No, I wouldn't sat the 6 drives like the S550 or 750. I guess depending on how you look at it, it's the best or worst of both worlds. Definitely a firmer, tighter ride, but nowhere near as luxurious. I mentioned the CGT because I thought that might be the ultimate combination of power/luxury I was looking for, but the 550 has so many more "gadgets", backseat room, I have a local MB dealer for service, etc. I went with the S. I also looked at the Quattroporte, never even test drove one. The transmission reviews I read scared me off but I thought there me a be a change coming for '07? I wasn't willing to to take the chance.

Jblackbelt

in 07 they added the automatic transmission. I think if i get a sedan it will be the S550, as the lease price of an LS is just as much for me, and the 7 im really bored with, and the A8 isnt at the top of my list. If I get a convert I will probably go with the 650 as it seems to be the most practical, yet still sporty.

Thanks guys. I'll let you know you how the test drives go in march, and what car I decide on.

Rusty G.

JBLACKBELT. . .by "P-Car" he means the Porsche you asked about.