Korean car maker plans to compete with S550 and 750
02-20-2008, 12:39 PM
#1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SoCal OC
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
Korean car maker plans to compete with S550 and 750
Korean car maker Ssangyong think their latest Chairman-W can go head to head with Mercedes S550 and BMW 750iL. Priced at $100K.
I think the only way they can have people pay $100K for that POS is having dealer to provide the "Korean massage" service, free of charge, as long as you own the car. I still wouldn't pay for it, but some probably would.
Btw, they claim all design & engineering are original, no copying from anybody whatsoever !!
I think the only way they can have people pay $100K for that POS is having dealer to provide the "Korean massage" service, free of charge, as long as you own the car. I still wouldn't pay for it, but some probably would.
Btw, they claim all design & engineering are original, no copying from anybody whatsoever !!
02-20-2008, 01:33 PM
#4
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: MBworld
Posts: 20,936
Received 743 Likes
on
724 Posts
bone stock E55 AMG
Chairman-H was priced at $35~40k...
i doubt Chairman-W will jump to $100k...
many components are brought from MB....
not copycat.... 7-speed automatic transmission is genuine MB...
and Chairman is for domestic sales only... (no duh)
the pricing will be much less compared to S-Class, 7-Series and A8 and tax will be a lot less as well.
100,000 of Chairman-H were sold in Korea.
similar numbers are expected for Chairman-W....
i doubt Chairman-W will jump to $100k...
many components are brought from MB....
not copycat.... 7-speed automatic transmission is genuine MB...
and Chairman is for domestic sales only... (no duh)
the pricing will be much less compared to S-Class, 7-Series and A8 and tax will be a lot less as well.
100,000 of Chairman-H were sold in Korea.
similar numbers are expected for Chairman-W....
02-20-2008, 01:34 PM
#6
Super Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: East Bay Area, CA
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 20 Likes
on
9 Posts
2013 SL 550 (Previously 2012 Porsche Panamera Turbo-S, 2015 Tesla P85D, 2007 S600, 2005 E55 AMG)
Ah Ssanyong - also the makers of the Rodius... likely the most ugly "transport appliance" ever... (I just can't call it a car or automobile) As Top Gear said... "looks like it got bottled in a pub brawl and stitched back together by a blind man"...
http://www.topgear.com/drives/G3/A4/
...this kind of looks like the same thing happened to an S-Class...
Chris
http://www.topgear.com/drives/G3/A4/
...this kind of looks like the same thing happened to an S-Class...
Chris
02-20-2008, 05:14 PM
#7
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SoCal OC
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
S, GL, Escalade ESV, my shoes
Trending Topics
02-20-2008, 05:32 PM
#9
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 Mazda Tribute , 2007 S550.
02-20-2008, 06:19 PM
#10
Be honest. How would we all be reacting if we saw this car for the first time with Mercedes badging all over it??? Even better yet, what if the article said it was the 2010 refresh??? The reaction would be
Some of the interior looks cheap, but overall this car looks great. I like the turn signal lights below the headlights. The overall exterior looks pretty darn good. Would be a great looking E class. I haven't read the article but I'm interested in reading the dimensions of the car and other specs.
This reminds me of a game I always play with car styling. I always try to imagine how I would feel about any car if it had the Mercedes badging on it.... would I like it or not??? Sometimes I even try to imagine how would I feel if XXXX model Mercedes had a Honda, Toyota, VW badging on it? Would I still like it??? Would it turn my head???
Some of the interior looks cheap, but overall this car looks great. I like the turn signal lights below the headlights. The overall exterior looks pretty darn good. Would be a great looking E class. I haven't read the article but I'm interested in reading the dimensions of the car and other specs.
This reminds me of a game I always play with car styling. I always try to imagine how I would feel about any car if it had the Mercedes badging on it.... would I like it or not??? Sometimes I even try to imagine how would I feel if XXXX model Mercedes had a Honda, Toyota, VW badging on it? Would I still like it??? Would it turn my head???
Last edited by trumpet1; 02-20-2008 at 06:38 PM.
02-20-2008, 06:46 PM
#11
Super Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: East Bay Area, CA
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 20 Likes
on
9 Posts
2013 SL 550 (Previously 2012 Porsche Panamera Turbo-S, 2015 Tesla P85D, 2007 S600, 2005 E55 AMG)
But the question is would they have come up with this look/design if there was no S-Class to base on? I don't think so...
It looks good because it is based on a set of derivative (Mercedes) visual cues and style elements that you are already conditioned to like!
Chris
It looks good because it is based on a set of derivative (Mercedes) visual cues and style elements that you are already conditioned to like!
Chris
02-20-2008, 06:55 PM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
For those who care more about tech/perf/dynamics/safety/comfort, etc, I suspect styling is less important....after all, it's amazing how different a non-AMG S/CL can appear vs AMG S/CL, esp in desirable colors.....perf jewelry does wonders...
For me, styling is a minor consideration w/any car....in May, I'll trade-in my CL63 030 for IMO a less visually attractive car: SL63 030....b/c I'm far more intrigued by its MCT box and poss sharper dynamics than styling....
And, if I didn't trade-in my cars so often, I'd prefer to obtain my new silver/blk MBs w/no badges....actually prefer a low-profile look vs the unwashed masses....enthusiasts tend to quickly figure out any car, even w/o badges....
But, trumpet, I suspect your point is spot-on....prob 90%+ of buyers of any high-end car are trying to buy/lease a brand/status, etc....and prob 90%+ have little interest in driving anyway and would rather have a driver if they could afford one (i.e., high-end Manhattan/BeverlyHills car culture)...
02-20-2008, 09:19 PM
#13
I agree with both of you (chris and wsh) on all points. I don't mean to down play the importance of the Mercedes emblem as it does have 100+ years of heritage and hardwork behind it and I do drive a car with some pride of that emblem with complete and total respect of all of the engineers and workers who put them together, but I am also open minded to other alternative car companies and I like to encourage competition, without which, even MB would be in trouble as of this day. Without Lexus, Bentley, BMW, and even VW, MB would have continued to go downhill I'm afraid in the quality control department.
Are their any laws, internationally I suppose, which prevents or penalizes one car company from copying another car company's product??? I mean, can MB litigate against something like this? I've never seen a car which copies another car as much as this one does.
I can remember when the Ford Granada came out in an attempt to be the American version (copy) of a MB 240 or 300 diesel. In that day, it seemed very much a copy of the late great 240 D (and 300TD).
Are their any laws, internationally I suppose, which prevents or penalizes one car company from copying another car company's product??? I mean, can MB litigate against something like this? I've never seen a car which copies another car as much as this one does.
I can remember when the Ford Granada came out in an attempt to be the American version (copy) of a MB 240 or 300 diesel. In that day, it seemed very much a copy of the late great 240 D (and 300TD).
02-20-2008, 09:26 PM
#14
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: MBworld
Posts: 20,936
Received 743 Likes
on
724 Posts
bone stock E55 AMG
Are their any laws, internationally I suppose, which prevents or penalizes one car company from copying another car company's product??? I mean, can MB litigate against something like this? I've never seen a car which copies another car as much as this one does.
I can remember when the Ford Granada came out in an attempt to be the American version (copy) of a MB 240 or 300 diesel. In that day, it seemed very much a copy of the late great 240 D (and 300TD).
I can remember when the Ford Granada came out in an attempt to be the American version (copy) of a MB 240 or 300 diesel. In that day, it seemed very much a copy of the late great 240 D (and 300TD).
MB actually helped with engineering of chairman-w and its previous generation models... if u look at the 1st generation chairman, u can tell the center console derived from W140....
same thing with 2nd generation hyundai tiburon which was designed by pinninfarina...
02-20-2008, 09:35 PM
#15
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 18,414
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
2007 E63
I agree with both of you (chris and wsh) on all points. I don't mean to down play the importance of the Mercedes emblem as it does have 100+ years of heritage and hardwork behind it and I do drive a car with some pride of that emblem with complete and total respect of all of the engineers and workers who put them together, but I am also open minded to other alternative car companies and I like to encourage competition, without which, even MB would be in trouble as of this day. Without Lexus, Bentley, BMW, and even VW, MB would have continued to go downhill I'm afraid in the quality control department.
Are their any laws, internationally I suppose, which prevents or penalizes one car company from copying another car company's product??? I mean, can MB litigate against something like this? I've never seen a car which copies another car as much as this one does.
I can remember when the Ford Granada came out in an attempt to be the American version (copy) of a MB 240 or 300 diesel. In that day, it seemed very much a copy of the late great 240 D (and 300TD).
Are their any laws, internationally I suppose, which prevents or penalizes one car company from copying another car company's product??? I mean, can MB litigate against something like this? I've never seen a car which copies another car as much as this one does.
I can remember when the Ford Granada came out in an attempt to be the American version (copy) of a MB 240 or 300 diesel. In that day, it seemed very much a copy of the late great 240 D (and 300TD).
How about a C-Class?
Maybe a Chevy beater?
^^Change the **** to sh|t with the | as an i.
Perhaps a Lexus GX for your utility needs?
Maybe you're looking for luxury like a Lexus and sportiness of a BMW?
Maybe you're craving a different flavor of German?
02-20-2008, 09:38 PM
#16
02-20-2008, 09:40 PM
#17
Can I interest you in a Honda CRV?
How about a C-Class?
Maybe a Chevy beater?
^^Change the **** to sh|t with the | as an i.
Perhaps a Lexus GX for your utility needs?
Maybe you're looking for luxury like a Lexus and sportiness of a BMW?
Maybe you're craving a different flavor of German?
How about a C-Class?
Maybe a Chevy beater?
^^Change the **** to sh|t with the | as an i.
Perhaps a Lexus GX for your utility needs?
Maybe you're looking for luxury like a Lexus and sportiness of a BMW?
Maybe you're craving a different flavor of German?
02-20-2008, 11:51 PM
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
IIRC, Lexus LS400 upon launch in ?'89 was criticized as being an MB copycat....
Agree....competition is great for consumers....best way to force mfrs to continue innovating/competing....and impose deflationary pricing....
That said, have never been convinced that any mfr aside from MB and Porsche has demonstrated notable/confidence-inspiring safety engineering/innovations....is autobahn testing/culture a natural safety engineering advantage? Are the sharpest auto engineers and/or those free to work on developing $100K+ cars (w/a more ample budget for safety engineering & scale advantages of higher sales volumes) only at MB/Porsche?
And have never been impressed w/Asian (or US or Italian) interior design aesthetics/quality of materials/ergonomics in any car to-date....
Interesting is brand power....let's face it....90%+ of high-end buyers anywhere aren't really interested in cars/driving anyway....what's intriguing is which brands/models are favored in various cities globally, either for self-driving or as limos....and in different socio-economic groups....
My sense is S-Class is simply a classic choice for both well-informed, and poorly-informed, high-end consumers/drivers globally....
Agree....competition is great for consumers....best way to force mfrs to continue innovating/competing....and impose deflationary pricing....
That said, have never been convinced that any mfr aside from MB and Porsche has demonstrated notable/confidence-inspiring safety engineering/innovations....is autobahn testing/culture a natural safety engineering advantage? Are the sharpest auto engineers and/or those free to work on developing $100K+ cars (w/a more ample budget for safety engineering & scale advantages of higher sales volumes) only at MB/Porsche?
And have never been impressed w/Asian (or US or Italian) interior design aesthetics/quality of materials/ergonomics in any car to-date....
Interesting is brand power....let's face it....90%+ of high-end buyers anywhere aren't really interested in cars/driving anyway....what's intriguing is which brands/models are favored in various cities globally, either for self-driving or as limos....and in different socio-economic groups....
My sense is S-Class is simply a classic choice for both well-informed, and poorly-informed, high-end consumers/drivers globally....
02-21-2008, 12:54 AM
#19
Super Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: East Bay Area, CA
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 20 Likes
on
9 Posts
2013 SL 550 (Previously 2012 Porsche Panamera Turbo-S, 2015 Tesla P85D, 2007 S600, 2005 E55 AMG)
Styling is pretty important to me.... It is a window into the ethos/spirit of the marque... Style does not have to be beautiful/gorgeous... it needs to be distinctive and consistent... it can even be polarizing... I admire BMW/Chris Bangle for ballsy confidence, (even if not to my taste) their willingness to take risks... and great style is fundamental to what MB is...
At service time I often admire multiple models/generations of MB's side by side... the consistent style elements (both obvious and subtle) that unify them, yet at the same time allowing each to express a unique character... At its best good design conveys a "something" that is often hard to define.. For example, I find the new w204 C Class really striking.. but if asked what about the w204 is so visually compelling, I find it quite hard to put into words... it is not any one style cue or feature.. it is the unified whole which works.... it can have a really powerful/emotional effect... and why ripping off single style cues from successful models always fails...
It is MB's ability to integrate imposing styling with the highest levels of engineering innovation and mechanical integrity that is so impressive. It is a very tangible feeling to all of us here... I only want to drive cars from the hands of designers and engineers who genuinely love cars, love good design and engineering for its own sake, who are totally immersed in car culture...
My problem with pretty much anything from Korea and certainly China is that frankly I don't think they really love cars... they could be making refrigerators... (And may do so) That is not to say their business strategies are not valid for their market circumstances.., but ultimately I don't believe they care about or understand car culture... BTW: This is not an Asian thing either... some Japanese manufacturers are certainly immersed in car culture... (Or sadly were once in the case of Toyota)
Chris
At service time I often admire multiple models/generations of MB's side by side... the consistent style elements (both obvious and subtle) that unify them, yet at the same time allowing each to express a unique character... At its best good design conveys a "something" that is often hard to define.. For example, I find the new w204 C Class really striking.. but if asked what about the w204 is so visually compelling, I find it quite hard to put into words... it is not any one style cue or feature.. it is the unified whole which works.... it can have a really powerful/emotional effect... and why ripping off single style cues from successful models always fails...
It is MB's ability to integrate imposing styling with the highest levels of engineering innovation and mechanical integrity that is so impressive. It is a very tangible feeling to all of us here... I only want to drive cars from the hands of designers and engineers who genuinely love cars, love good design and engineering for its own sake, who are totally immersed in car culture...
My problem with pretty much anything from Korea and certainly China is that frankly I don't think they really love cars... they could be making refrigerators... (And may do so) That is not to say their business strategies are not valid for their market circumstances.., but ultimately I don't believe they care about or understand car culture... BTW: This is not an Asian thing either... some Japanese manufacturers are certainly immersed in car culture... (Or sadly were once in the case of Toyota)
Chris
Last edited by cjf_moraga; 02-21-2008 at 01:09 AM.
02-21-2008, 01:12 AM
#20
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Paradise (a.k.a. Austin, TX)
Posts: 888
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
'09 S63 AMG
Who in their right mind would spend $100k for a Korean piece of *****? Seriously, MB, BMW, Jaguar, Bently, etc. are all about prestige, performance and expressing a certain class about who you are and what you aspire to.
The Sssssssonyanongkwang is anything but.
It's amazing to think how these Johnny-come-lately Korean car manufactures suddenly think that they can sidestep 60+ years of refinement (Benz) and sell stuff like this in the U.S.
The Sssssssonyanongkwang is anything but.
It's amazing to think how these Johnny-come-lately Korean car manufactures suddenly think that they can sidestep 60+ years of refinement (Benz) and sell stuff like this in the U.S.
Last edited by AustinGuy; 02-21-2008 at 01:24 AM.
02-23-2008, 06:34 PM
#22
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hunterdon County
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
'06 E 350 4matic wagon; '05 E 500 4matic sedan; '09 S550 4matic
No real "chairman" or CEO, would drive a car with that kind of name, do they really call them that in their marketing? Next model will be "the big boss", or "upper class". Ooofa.
02-23-2008, 09:56 PM
#23
02-25-2008, 03:01 AM
#25
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate NY, Ponte Vedra FL
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SL55, Cayenne S, Tundra, 360 spider
